Do You Hate Gary Bettman?

Gustavus Adolphus · Apr 10, 2014

DMelt36 said:
What does the NHL "need" ESPN for? To be on a network where it'll be the organization's 6th priority behind the Little League World Series and Poker?

No thanks.

I think the NHL is doing fine with the NBC deal. This postseason every single playoff game is going to be broadcasted on NBC's family of networks. ESPN would never dedicate that much airtime to hockey, nor would it commit to advertising the hell out of it the way NBC has.

I doubt hockey will ever pass the MLB or the NFL ... those two are firmly entrenched at the top of the American sports popularity chart. But the NHL is gaining substantial ground on the NBA, as this story tells you.

I'll clarify what I mean in a bit.

Gustavus Adolphus · Apr 10, 2014

DMelt36 said:
What does the NHL "need" ESPN for? To be on a network where it'll be the organization's 6th priority behind the Little League World Series and Poker?

No thanks.

I think the NHL is doing fine with the NBC deal. This postseason every single playoff game is going to be broadcasted on NBC's family of networks. ESPN would never dedicate that much airtime to hockey, nor would it commit to advertising the hell out of it the way NBC has.

I doubt hockey will ever pass the MLB or the NFL ... those two are firmly entrenched at the top of the American sports popularity chart. But the NHL is gaining substantial ground on the NBA, as this story tells you.

Thanks for posting a link dealing with ticket sales, my point was tv revenue. You do realize, while you're trumping ticket sales, that last years NBA finals was viewed 3.5 times more than the Stanley Cup Finals? And you're dealing with two smaller (you could argue Miami is a major market now) markets against two major market, original 6 teams in the finals. Not to mention, this NBA fan will tell you the Stanley Cup Playoffs are amazingly better than the NBA playoffs.

It's great that the NHL is on NBC sports - I'd agree, they do a great job at it. But do you honestly think a fringe fan is going to search out a regular season game on that network when they can just as easily find a regular season basketball game on ESPN?

Listen, I get it. ESPN sucks. I agree 100% with you, but you are kidding yourself if you don't think the NHL being on ESPN would make it absolutely bigger.

Gustavus Adolphus · Apr 10, 2014

DMelt36 said:
To be on a network where it'll be the organization's 6th priority behind the Little League World Series and Poker?

Also: this is the most disappointing line I've ever seen you type on this website. I have no doubt whatsoever that you think hockey is the best sport of all that could be seen, yet you instantly think they'd be pushed aside by ESPN. Despite the fact that ESPN has an AMAZING hype machine that basically sets the story in the sports world.

Gustavus Adolphus · Apr 10, 2014

Here's the other problem (and I'm not referring to anybody who has posted in this thread, except 1 person), a guy like me who wants to be a Blackhawks fan is immediately met with - 'BANDWAGON, GET OFF MY BANDWAGON. IF YOU CAN'T LIST THE #1 LINE FROM THE 1998-99 SEASON YOU'RE NOT A REAL FAN.'

I'm sorry, but hockey fans are not exactly the biggest tent people.

DMelt36 · Apr 10, 2014

PretentousBastard said:
Thanks for posting a link dealing with ticket sales, my point was tv revenue. You do realize, while you're trumping ticket sales, that last years NBA finals was viewed 3.5 times more than the Stanley Cup Finals? And you're dealing with two smaller (you could argue Miami is a major market now) markets against two major market, original 6 teams in the finals. Not to mention, this NBA fan will tell you the Stanley Cup Playoffs are amazingly better than the NBA playoffs.

It's great that the NHL is on NBC sports - I'd agree, they do a great job at it. But do you honestly think a fringe fan is going to search out a regular season game on that network when they can just as easily find a regular season basketball game on ESPN?

Listen, I get it. ESPN sucks. I agree 100% with you, but you are kidding yourself if you don't think the NHL being on ESPN would make it absolutely bigger.

Would ESPN make hockey bigger? Absolutely. But I don't think the NHL "needs" ESPN to survive. The ratings are up. League-wide revenue is up, indicated by the steadily growing salary cap, and that comes just after yet another work stoppage.

As a fan who gets more into hockey each season, I'd rather have the NHL be on a network that puts hockey first as opposed to it being the red-headed stepchild on ESPN. I have access to all the channels that NBC uses to show NHL games. So what is there to complain about?

I love the NHL's TV setup right now. I have access to everything I could want.

DMelt36 · Apr 10, 2014

PretentousBastard said:
Here's the other problem (and I'm not referring to anybody who has posted in this thread, except 1 person), a guy like me who wants to be a Blackhawks fan is immediately met with - 'BANDWAGON, GET OFF MY BANDWAGON. IF YOU CAN'T LIST THE #1 LINE FROM THE 1998-99 SEASON YOU'RE NOT A REAL FAN.'

I'm sorry, but hockey fans are not exactly the biggest tent people.

I have a buddy that's huge into hockey and also huge into punk music. Plays in a few bands. He swears that the hockey fan base and the punk rock fan base have nearly identical mentalities in that they're sort of on the fringe of the mainstream, they like it that way, and they're bitterly opposed to outsiders who try to join their ranks. I don't think he's far off.

For the record, fuck those people who trash bandwagon fans.

Gustavus Adolphus · Apr 10, 2014

DMelt36 said:
Would ESPN make hockey bigger? Absolutely. But I don't think the NHL "needs" ESPN to survive. The ratings are up. League-wide revenue is up, indicated by the steadily growing salary cap, and that comes just after yet another work stoppage.

As a fan who gets more into hockey each season, I'd rather have the NHL be on a network that puts hockey first as opposed to it being the red-headed stepchild on ESPN. I have access to all the channels that NBC uses to show NHL games. So what is there to complain about?

I love the NHL's TV setup right now. I have access to everything I could want.

Well this goes back to why I'm upset by your one post. The more and more I watch hockey - I love it. What you're essentially saying is that the casual fan like me wouldn't get more involved in hockey if it were on a more well known network. Yeah, having the NHL on NBC is great for the traditional hockey fan, and yeah, the ratings are up - but let's be honest, where else were they going to go?

It should speak volumes that the NHL playoffs are being out-viewed by a 3.5-1 ratio to the NBA playoffs.

EDIT: I meant Stanley Cup Finals vs. NBA Finals. I can't speak for the overall playoffs in each sport, but I would probably argue the entire NHL playoffs are a higher draw than the entire NBA playoffs. But that part is just an opinion.

Gustavus Adolphus · Apr 10, 2014

DMelt36 said:
I have a buddy that's huge into hockey and also huge into punk music. Plays in a few bands. He swears that the hockey fan base and the punk rock fan base have nearly identical mentalities in that they're sort of on the fringe of the mainstream, they like it that way, and they're bitterly opposed to outsiders who try to join their ranks. I don't think he's far off.

For the record, fuck those people who trash bandwagon fans.

And for the record, that is why I appreciate your responses to me who is more of a casual fan. There are some on this board (and we know who they are) that don't seem to want hockey to be bigger, which I would think is the exact opposite of what a hockey fan would want.

DMelt36 · Apr 10, 2014

PretentousBastard said:
Also: this is the most disappointing line I've ever seen you type on this website. I have no doubt whatsoever that you think hockey is the best sport of all that could be seen, yet you instantly think they'd be pushed aside by ESPN. Despite the fact that ESPN has an AMAZING hype machine that basically sets the story in the sports world.

Well, I'm a football guy first.

But, yeah, I think you're saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) that if ESPN picked up NHL games it would make it more of a priority than it is now, and I'd agree with that. How much room is there on ESPN's programming for hockey, though? Even if they created more space, I don't think it'd have as much as airtime as it gets on ESPN. NBC Sports is dedicating 3-4 evenings with 4 hours blocks of NHL coverage. NBC (as in Channel 5 in the Chicago area) picks up a game or two every Sunday beginning in January. EVERY playoff game is going to be televised by NBC's large family of networks. I don't think ESPN would match that, initially.

DMelt36 · Apr 10, 2014

PretentousBastard said:
Well this goes back to why I'm upset by your one post. The more and more I watch hockey - I love it. What you're essentially saying is that the casual fan like me wouldn't get more involved in hockey if it were on a more well known network. Yeah, having the NHL on NBC is great for the traditional hockey fan, and yeah, the ratings are up - but let's be honest, where else were they going to go?

When the NHL signed this deal with NBC, it wasn't doing as well as it is now. I can't remember the exact timeframe of that deal, but I know it was prior to the most recent lockout (which sucks that I have to differentiate between lockouts).

At that time, I don't think ESPN would've been a wise move for the NHL, as I don't think they would've provided the airtime for hockey that NBC has. Sometime in the near future, I think you could see hockey jump to ESPN in hopes of reaching the casual fan such as yourself. But I think they also need to bide their time on a network like NBC so that, should they decide to jump to ESPN, that network will decide to commit more of its airtime to the NHL.

I guess my overall point is that NBC was the right move at that time for the NHL. The jump to ESPN could be the right move in the future. It could be very soon.

Gustavus Adolphus · Apr 10, 2014

DMelt36 said:
Well, I'm a football guy first.

But, yeah, I think you're saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) that if ESPN picked up NHL games it would make it more of a priority than it is now, and I'd agree with that. How much room is there on ESPN's programming for hockey, though? Even if they created more space, I don't think it'd have as much as airtime as it gets on ESPN. NBC Sports is dedicating 3-4 evenings with 4 hours blocks of NHL coverage. NBC (as in Channel 5 in the Chicago area) picks up a game or two every Sunday beginning in January. EVERY playoff game is going to be televised by NBC's large family of networks. I don't think ESPN would match that, initially.

I'm not going to begin to guess where it would fit, today, in the schedule. I just mean to suggest that keeping it on ESPN, after whenever it was gone (and you'll have to help me there) would have kept it going. I remember being able to watch a ton of hockey on ESPN when I was growing up, and then it was gone. I imagine my sports viewing history is pretty similar to most:
a. your father
b. availability on television

Now my father is not a big hockey fan (and I suspect that is different than you), so neither was I. The Blackhawks were never on television when I was growing up (and I suspect for you as well), so as a casual fan once it was gone from ESPN my hockey viewing dropped to 0% I just got the NBC Sports Network 2 years ago, so of course my viewing of hockey went up.

Gustavus Adolphus · Apr 10, 2014

DMelt36 said:
I guess my overall point is that NBC was the right move at that time for the NHL. The jump to ESPN could be the right move in the future. It could be very soon.

I get what you're saying, maybe I just wasn't clear about my ESPN point. I just meant to suggest that tv revenue would have been much higher with ESPN than it was/is with NBC in the short-term, because ESPN is more well known - though I'd never argue any point that NBC has done a better job with it than ESPN would, or did in the past. That point I'll let bigger fans than I argue.

DMelt36 · Apr 10, 2014

PretentousBastard said:
I'm not going to begin to guess where it would fit, today, in the schedule. I just mean to suggest that keeping it on ESPN, after whenever it was gone (and you'll have to help me there) would have kept it going. I remember being able to watch a ton of hockey on ESPN when I was growing up, and then it was gone. I imagine my sports viewing history is pretty similar to most:
a. your father
b. availability on television

Now my father is not a big hockey fan (and I suspect that is different than you), so neither was I. The Blackhawks were never on television when I was growing up (and I suspect for you as well), so as a casual fan once it was gone from ESPN my hockey viewing dropped to 0% I just got the NBC Sports Network 2 years ago, so of course my viewing of hockey went up.

I got into the sport as a kid based on a combo of NHL video games that were awesome, the Mighty Ducks movies, and my father randomly landing four tickets to a Hawks game and taking me. That game is what really got me hooked. Don't think my father was that into the sport but he's since hopped on the bandwagon, for sure.

I believe the 2004-05 season, which was lost due to a lockout, was the end of the NHL being on ESPN. If not, it was soon after it that the NHL went to what was then the Outdoor Life Network, then Versus, now the NBC Sports Network. The closest thing I can find to an article about that is here: http://thesituationist.wordpress.com/2007/07/02/negative-press-is-espn-is-killing-the-national-hockey-league-by-influencing-public-attitudes/

PretentousBastard said:
I get what you're saying, maybe I just wasn't clear about my ESPN point. I just meant to suggest that tv revenue would have been much higher with ESPN than it was/is with NBC in the short-term, because ESPN is more well known - though I'd never argue any point that NBC has done a better job with it than ESPN would, or did in the past. That point I'll let bigger fans than I argue.

I do wonder what would've happened to the NHL had it never left ESPN. Those years immediately following the lockout were awful because a) I couldn't find hockey on TV anywhere and b) the Blackhawks were a special brand of organizational incompetence that would make any fan question their support. I remember that they actually had to pay radio stations in town to have their games broadcasted, not the other way around, as it's been in the last 5-6 years.

Would the NHL have been better off staying with ESPN the whole time? I think you could make a good argument there. That reminds me of something I learned in a college Communication Theories class: the media doesn't necessarily tell you what to think, but it does tell you what to think about.

Gustavus Adolphus · Apr 10, 2014

Well shit, I didn't realize I was arguing with a comm major. Please put that info up front so I don't get schooled again.

nwfisch · Apr 10, 2014

I think a big thing the NHL/NBC needs to do is get all Stanley Cup Final games on NBC. After an exciting first two games last year (A 3 OT Blackhawk win in game 1), games 3 and 4 went to NBCSN, and not everyone gets that. That would probably help close some of the gap in TV ratings.

Plus, frankly LeBron James is argubly the most talented and polarizing figure in all of sports. I watch the playoff games rooting for the Heat to lose, no other reason. I'd imagine its the same or vice versa for NBA fans.

Just my 2 cents in a good convo.

I guess it was 2 and 3 on NBCSN, but still, all games should be on a basic cable network to reach the most people.

DMelt36 · Apr 10, 2014

PretentousBastard said:
Well shit, I didn't realize I was arguing with a comm major. Please put that info up front so I don't get schooled again.

That just means I have a piece of paper that says I acquired a skillset that is increasingly less in demand. It's not much.

Gustavus Adolphus · Apr 10, 2014

DMelt36 said:
Would the NHL have been better off staying with ESPN the whole time? I think you could make a good argument there. That reminds me of something I learned in a college Communication Theories class: the media doesn't necessarily tell you what to think, but it does tell you what to think about.

Honestly, that's a hell of a thought right there.

I thought/figured the ESPN contract was done before the first lockout, though that makes me wonder how the ratings were for NHL vs. NBA before that first lockout. My uneducated guess is that hockey was probably on the way out, and the lockout sealed the deal. If that is the case, then my argument holds absolutely no water, and I've wasted your time.

I think you're wrong about the NHL playing behind the WSOP and other fluff that ESPN plays, but that is more me getting into the sport more recently and you (obviously) knowing more about it than I.

DMelt36 · Apr 10, 2014

nwfisch said:
I think a big thing the NHL/NBC needs to do is get all Stanley Cup Final games on NBC. After an exciting first two games last year (A 3 OT Blackhawk win in game 1), games 3 and 4 went to NBCSN, and not everyone gets that. That would probably help close some of the gap in TV ratings.

Plus, frankly LeBron James is argubly the most talented and polarizing figure in all of sports. I watch the playoff games rooting for the Heat to lose, no other reason.

Just my 2 cents in a good convo.

I think Sidney Crosby could draw a pretty good amount of hate from sports fans if hockey became more mainstream. A lot of the Crosby hate I hear/read is similar to the LeBron hate. Crosby just has nowhere near the exposure.

Gustavus Adolphus · Apr 10, 2014

BTW, I know ESPN plays the Frozen Four but that's obviously an NCAA deal, but does any network (and maybe this is obviously the NHL Network and you can go ahead an dislike me if I'm being stupid with this question) play the minor leagues/foreign leagues??

DMelt36 · Apr 10, 2014

PretentousBastard said:
Honestly, that's a hell of a thought right there.

I thought/figured the ESPN contract was done before the first lockout, though that makes me wonder how the ratings were for NHL vs. NBA before that first lockout. My uneducated guess is that hockey was probably on the way out, and the lockout sealed the deal. If that is the case, then my argument holds absolutely no water, and I've wasted your time.

I think you're wrong about the NHL playing behind the WSOP and other fluff that ESPN plays, but that is more me getting into the sport more recently and you (obviously) knowing more about it than I.

Well that's just the way it feels now. Again, if ESPN picked up NHL games, I'd imagine they'd give NHL more coverage in it's millions of debate/talk shows in order to help its own bottom line.

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