The Myth of being contenders year after year for an extended period of time.

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KBisBack!

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So many people have bought into the PR campaign that throwing away a couple seasons will magically lead to the Cubs being contenders year in and year out for an extended period of time that I decided to break down some numbers on really how difficult that is to accomplish.

I looked at the last 20 years.

Obviously the Yankees dominated the numbers. So much for the farm system is the only way to develop long term success myth.

The Yankees were the only team to win the World Series more than twice in the last 20 years, winning six. The Marlins, Cardinals, Giants and Red Sox were the only teams to win even two. Six teams won once.

There were only three teams that made the playoffs in at least half of the last 20 years. Yankees 17 times, Braves 14 times and Cardinals 10 times. Only 2 more teams made the playoffs in at least 1/3 of the seasons which was 7 or more times, Boston and Cleveland.

Only 2 teams made the playoffs in 10+ straight seasons, the Yankees at 13 and the Braves with 11. Only two more teams had a streak of even 5 straight seasons, Cleveland and Philadelphia.

Only 3 teams won at least 90 games in half the seasons, Yankees 15 times, Braves 13 times and Red Sox 10 times. There were only 4 teams that won 90 or more games 1/3 of the time (7 or more), the Giants with 9 and Cleveland, Oakland and St Louis with 7.

So less than a quarter of teams in the league were contenders in at least a third of the last twenty seasons.

I used 90 games since so many of the experts here have repeatedly stating that winning 85 games is a waste of time, so I wouldn't want to included such wasted seasons as part of being contenders.

The longest streak of 90+ wins was of course the Yankees with 7. Atlanta had a streak of 6, while Oakland and San Francisco had streaks of 5 and Seattle and Philadelphia had streaks of 4. No other teams had at least 4 straight 90 win seasons. So only 20% of the teams in baseball had a streak of at least 4 years in a row winning 90+ games.

But somehow the Cubs will be able to just throw away a couple seasons and build an almost unprecedented winning machine because Theo is at the helm??

Really?? I am so glad we are being reasonable and realistic here.

Everyone's flavor of the month as the blueprint to team building a couple years ago was the Tampa Rays. They had to throw away NINE straight seasons to get their little moment in the sun and now they are fading back to the basement because they simply cant replace the players as fast as they are losing them.

Let the Theo apologist's go wild now on how distorted my facts are because they choose to ignore the message because of the messenger.
 

KBIB

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And what happened 20 years ago means what specifically, now?


Creme
 

KBisBack!

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Great point.

Because I took the one season from 20 years ago and used just that one season as a snapshot, right?

Thanks for your wonderful contribution.
 

KBIB

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Great point.

Because I took the one season from 20 years ago and used just that one season as a snapshot, right?

Thanks for your wonderful contribution.
Well, I apologize for pretty much mooting your long post in a couple of sentences, but you are basing things on a 20 year span, of which none of what you typed out means a thing. Baseball is a funny sport like that.

I mean, you could have just said "Theo sucks" and drawn a similar conclusion, just sayin.


Creme
 

mountsalami

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Well, I apologize for pretty much mooting your long post in a couple of sentences, but you are basing things on a 20 year span, of which none of what you typed out means a thing. Baseball is a funny sport like that.

I mean, you could have just said "Theo sucks" and drawn a similar conclusion, just sayin.


Creme


^That's just fuckin' dumb right there^
 

Boobaby1

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And what happened 20 years ago means what specifically, now?


Creme

So if the Cubs decided to duplicate or better yet, escalate payroll to get even better players than in 07' and 08', would that mean that the Cubs would get swept again in the playoffs two years in a row and not make it to, or win the WS? Because what happened 6 years ago means what specifically, now?

Just sayin'.
 

KBisBack!

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Well, I apologize for pretty much mooting your long post in a couple of sentences, but you are basing things on a 20 year span, of which none of what you typed out means a thing. Baseball is a funny sport like that.

I mean, you could have just said "Theo sucks" and drawn a similar conclusion, just sayin.


Creme

You really have nothing to apologize for since you did absolutely nothing to moot a thing.
 

KBIB

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So if the Cubs decided to duplicate or better yet, escalate payroll to get even better players than in 07' and 08', would that mean that the Cubs would get swept again in the playoffs two years in a row and not make it to, or win the WS? Because what happened 6 years ago means what specifically, now?

Just sayin'.
Um, well, the flaws in your logic are quite huge, so besides going over them and making others question things, lets just say that anybody playing now would be a bit better then in 07/08 only on the simple fact they would be....different players.


Creme
 

BearsWillWin

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Well, the logic of the OP for starters.......

The logic that losing now for the sake of winning later is not at all a proven way to build a team?

Perhaps you could show us how that is indeed a proven way to build a team.

Go on.......
 

Boobaby1

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Um, well, the flaws in your logic are quite huge, so besides going over them and making others question things, lets just say that anybody playing now would be a bit better then in 07/08 only on the simple fact they would be....different players.


Creme

Ah, I see. Well you can take the blueprint of how the Royals, Nationals, and Pirates try and make the playoffs and I will take the blueprint of how the Yankees get to the playoffs year in and year out and we will see which one is better over time. This way, we don't have to use a snapshot of the past 20 years.

Dreme
 

mountsalami

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The logic that losing now for the sake of winning later is not at all a proven way to build a team?

Perhaps you could show us how that is indeed a proven way to build a team.

Go on.......

Still waiting on our resident genius. Should be right on the tip of your tongue.

Don't leave us in suspense like this, Oh Mighty One.
 

KBisBack!

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Why am I not surprised that a factual and accurate breakdown of how few teams actually manage to be contenders over a long period of time would be wasted on many of the brain trust around here?
 

FirstTimer

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Your evaluation is pretty shitty. You can contend for a WS title without actually winning one. You can be a "consistent" contender for a WS without making the playoffs each and every year. I don't think it's any coincidence that the teams that made the playoffs more than half the time in the last 20 years(Yankees, Cardinals, Braves,) Have accounted for a combined almost 15 WS appearances. The other teams making the playoffs a 1/3 of the time (Boston and Cleveland) had another 4 WS appearances and 2 WS titles.

If you are trying to dispute that making the playoffs a lot is a bad idea..I'm not sure what to tell you.

Plus, with the dual wild card now more teams will make the playoffs and it will be easier to get into the dance so to speak to give yourself a shot. Building a team to contend or at the very least be int he battle for playoff spots year in and year out is a pretty good idea backed up with winning a lot of games and playoff runs.

Comparing them to the Rays at the end is rather stupid as well. When the Cubs talent develops they will have the market resources to resign them. The Rays didn't, and don't.

I don't think anyone is expecting Epstein to build the Yankees, but if he built say even the Giants, Cardinals, Braves, or Red Sox string of 20 years(which the Cubs will have the resources to do)...I think most fans would be pretty satisfied.

Your research logic and reasoning all pretty much suck.
 

KBisBack!

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Not surprising the dude who likes to watch grown men on steroids in tights roll around with each other and who chose a picture straight from the FBI's most wanted pedophile list as his avatar is completely ignorant to the facts that it is very hard to consistently field a competitive team year in and year out.
 
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