A New 3-4 Thread Yes there was experimentation with it in mini-camp

schizm032003

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I like the idea of switching things up during games, leaving us less predictable. QB's won't be able to really get into a comfort zone if he's constantly reading different looks at different times of games.
 

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To help you out, try not to think of it in terms of a scheme and personnel fit. The Bears obviously don't have the personnel for a two-gap fat bodied 3-4 but it doesn't meant they won't be afraid to use a 3-4 to get their best pass rusher on the field rushing from different angles.

The Packers and Dom Capers are known as a 3-4 team, but if you watch a lot of their tape from last year they ran a lot more 4-3 than they did 3-4. That had to do with the splits the DTs took and where they lined up Clay Matthews. The Ravens do a lot of the same thing with Suggs and their variation of a 4-3 as do the Patriots and their variation of a 4-3.

As Emery said there aren't a lot of teams in the NFL that run a PURE 3-4 even though they may call themselves 3-4, they're actually aligning like a 4-3.

Don't need the help. Was already there. Any 3-4 becomes a 4-3 when the Jack comes up to rush anyway so pure was probably a bad choice of words. If you got the personal the alignments can be very versitile in a 3-4 and it looks like Tucker is trying to integrate that form a 4-3 foundation whetre it's less natural to do so. It's more about Primary emphasis than terminology.
 

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Why in the hell would you ever shift Melton to OLB? The entire point of a 3-4 alignment is to be able to mix up who is on the rush, with Melton at OLB there would be no doubt that he was coming instead of dropping into coverage...so basically you would just be running a strangely aligned 4-3 anyway. It would make way, way, more sense to have Woot and Shea or Pep and Shea at OLB with Melton-Ellis-Paea as the down linemen (or Pep-Ellis-Melton if you have Woot on the outside).
Well, partly because of the reports of Melton in minicamp standing up on some blitz packages. That's why. However, nothing was set in my example as far who would switch. The point was someone would have to switch between the SLB and OLB. Also, the point of disguising the defense is to catch them off guard, I agree, but if Melton can drop back some successfully, then, as you say, it might catch them thinkink he's only going to rush. I guess that's the point is to confuse them. But we do have a bunch of versatility, as you point out.
 

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If Shea stands up and backs up to the linebackers on a play, what would you call it?

He did that plenty of times last year to either spy the QB or rush from a different angle, but I don't think anyone claimed that we "ran some 3-4 plays" last season. We simply moved one of our DEs from his traditional spot to use him in a more varied fashion (note that there are plenty of zone-blitz plays and spy plays where a DL will drop into a zone or shadow a RB or QB, but that doesn't equate to a change of alignment either).
 

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If McC stands up, that doesn't make it a 34.

There's a good article about that here: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/cosell-3-4-4-3-concepts-more-personnel-163318715--nfl.html

I talked about this in the other thread, but just because a DE stands up doesn't mean you're running a 3-4. It really isn't about how many guys have their hand in the dirt. It's about personnel and gap control.

There are only a couple of teams who run an actual 3-4 at this point (the Steelers and the Redskins, and the Packers kinda). The rest of what we think of as 3-4 teams (Cardinals, Browns, Texans, Colts, Saints, Chargers and 49ers) are running a defense that's almost identical to the 4-3 Under that the Bears run. The personnel's the same. The gap assignments are the same. The concepts are the same.
 

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I've promoted the idea as Shea at Sam and becoming a DE/Jack on passing downs by pulling a T and adding a pass defender. If Hardin, who is almost backer size, becomes that added defender, it makes what Tucker is doing very hard to diagnose until they're set.
 

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Well, partly because of the reports of Melton in minicamp standing up on some blitz packages. That's why. However, nothing was set in my example as far who would switch. The point was someone would have to switch between the SLB and OLB. Also, the point of disguising the defense is to catch them off guard, I agree, but if Melton can drop back some successfully, then, as you say, it might catch them thinkink he's only going to rush. I guess that's the point is to confuse them. But we do have a bunch of versatility, as you point out.

Sure, but I guess what my point is (as with my reply to Teddy) is that simply having a DT play from a 2-point stance doesn't equate to them being able to play OLB, or change what type of D we're running...it just means that they're doing the same job as before but from a different angle. I just don't see a guy his size being able to adequately cover a RB or TE as OLBs are often required to; dropping into a shallow zone on a blitz maybe, but there's no way that he can actually play OLB, meaning that we wouldn't be confusing anyone.
 

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He did that plenty of times last year to either spy the QB or rush from a different angle, but I don't think anyone claimed that we "ran some 3-4 plays" last season. We simply moved one of our DEs from his traditional spot to use him in a more varied fashion (note that there are plenty of zone-blitz plays and spy plays where a DL will drop into a zone or shadow a RB or QB, but that doesn't equate to a change of alignment either).
Note: That was last year. We have a completly new coaching staff. We have a new DC in Tucker that has run both defenses. And we have drafted a bunch of players that are tweeners for both defenses. Shea can play LB, Washington played 5 tech in college for a pretty good Georgia D. Ellis was a run stopper for the Saints the last two years. Pep is a freak that could do anything. We have a ton of S's and LB's as well. I think there is a very real chance of us seeing a lot more 3-4 sets from the Bears, imo.
 

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I've promoted the idea as Shea at Will and becoming a DE/Jack on passing downs by pulling a T and adding a pass defender. If Hardin, who is almost backer size, becomes that added defender, it makes what Tucker is doing very hard to diagnose until they're set.
Are you saying we pull Briggs out on passing downs?
 

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I've promoted the idea as Shea at Will and becoming a DE/Jack on passing downs by pulling a T and adding a pass defender. If Hardin, who is almost backer size, becomes that added defender, it makes what Tucker is doing very hard to diagnose until they're set.

I thought it made more sense to do that from the strong side. Here's our base defense:

Slide1.jpg


If Shea is at SLB on running downs, you can slide him into LDE on passing downs. In that case, you can pull Paea, slide Wootton to into the left side a-gap and bring Hardin up into the slot. There's a lot you can do with the personnel we have now to disguise what you're doing.
 

Chicago4Life

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nothing in the pod cast suggests 3-4, moving players around and or standing them up to confuse or gain an edge in pass rush is tucker's goal. Melton is the only interior pass rush threat and so in an effort to gain a better advantage tucker is trying to be more creative. Wil it be effective? Sure i'm sure once in a while it can be effective but this is also a double edged sword, how did the mug look work for the bears? more often than not the blitz did not get there and the short slants were there all day. hopefully tucker's creativity yields positive results but to call any of this a 3-4 is abusrd
 

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I thought it made more sense to do that from the strong side. Here's our base defense:

Slide1.jpg


If Shea is at SLB on running downs, you can slide him into LDE on passing downs. In that case, you can pull Paea, slide Wootton to into the left side a-gap and bring Hardin up into the slot. There's a lot you can do with the personnel we have now to disguise what you're doing.

Damn, I meant Sam. That didn't make any sense. Thanks, I'll fix it. I wasn't planning on moving Lance, LOL.
 

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Originally Posted by Windy City Liar

I thought it made more sense to do that from the strong side. Here's our base defense:

Slide1.jpg


If Shea is at SLB on running downs, you can slide him into LDE on passing downs. In that case, you can pull Paea, slide Wootton to into the left side a-gap and bring Hardin up into the slot. There's a lot you can do with the personnel we have now to disguise what you're doing.

Damn, I meant Sam. That didn't make any sense. Thanks, I'll fix it. I wasn't planning on moving Lance, LOL.
I see, and I see Ellis at NT and Melton or Pep being the ROLB. I wouldn't this a true 3-4, but it's accomplishing the same thing really. This is what I was getting at. Can't wait for training camp to get a glimpse!!! Good thread fella's!
 
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Well, he would either be a SLB or an OLB dropping back in coverage on a TE most likely. :) This would bring to the table the real question. Can Shea cover the best TE's out there? Or for that matter, in my example, can Melton?

I believe speed/coverage to be Sheas best asset & I definitely think he can cover the best TEs in the league. One great example of this was the Cowboys game last season when Shea dopped back into coverage & cut off the hot read to Witten, thus allowing Tillman to undercut the route against Dez Bryant resulting in the INT. Witten was the most effective target Dallas had at that point in the game & McClellin was on him like glue & I think was one of the few plays that really stood out for McClellin last season.
 

botfly10

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I thought it made more sense to do that from the strong side. Here's our base defense:

Slide1.jpg


If Shea is at SLB on running downs, you can slide him into LDE on passing downs. In that case, you can pull Paea, slide Wootton to into the left side a-gap and bring Hardin up into the slot. There's a lot you can do with the personnel we have now to disguise what you're doing.

Looks like a pretty standard cover-1 play to me... maybe with a safety blitz...? Maybe with a press man look?
 

botfly10

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I see, and I see Ellis at NT and Melton or Pep being the ROLB. I wouldn't this a true 3-4, but it's accomplishing the same thing really. This is what I was getting at. Can't wait for training camp to get a glimpse!!! Good thread fella's!

Huh? Bears have used this exact formation for years. Its not really accomplishing any of the objectives that differentiate a 34 from a 43
 

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Letting Shea/Hardin/Peppers/Melton/Bostic/D.J.Williams/Paea/Tillman be versatile and unpredictable is the best thing we can do.
 

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