If the Bulls had Nikola Mirotic, would they be rightful title favorites?

CODE_BLUE56

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Putting Mirotic in front of Boozer was more about painting the hypothetical in people's minds about Mirotic with this current roster more-so than dissing Boozer/hyping Mirotic..

right....right

:shifty:
 

CODE_BLUE56

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I wouldn't be shocked to see him traded. I think the perfect trade for Indiana would be to send Granger out and keep George at the 3 where he belongs and get back Eric Gordon. New Orleans gets a SF that they desperately need. It is an injury-prone player dealt for another injury-prone player. The Pacers have an Indianapolis-based starting back-court of George Hill and Gordon. Win-win.

That's an idea. I'm not so sure about the positioning IRT George. Even if he were theoretically at the 2 with Granger, he could/would still be designated to guard the best wing player, regardless of position. He has that size and versatility. George is a swingman, so I think he'd be fine logging some minutes at the 2 while he rotates in with Stephenson and Granger,getting some minutes at the 3. With that said, the Pacers do have some wing depth, so it's not for certain how many minutes George would get at the 3. Regardless, I dont think positioning is really an issue with George.

I think a good idea for the Pacers is a reduced role in the offense for Granger. George and Hill should be able to do a bit of the creating and Granger should be in position for some spot up shots via drive and kick. Granger doesn't have to hijack the offense on isos, and he shouldn't, because that makes the pacers worse. They're balanced enough inside with Hibbert,Scola, and West and on the perimeter with guys like Copeland(who can stroke the outside), Stephenson,George,Hill,etc. What I like about Granger vs. Gordon is that he gives the Pacers size and shooting. Defense is a question, but i dont trust gordon a ton in that department as well.

I could see that trade working out pretty well though. Both guys go back to their home state/town, Pelicans save money, they both fill needs. But, of course, that doesn't mean I can't see Granger and George working out on the perimeter. Still takes effort from both sides to get a trade done.
 

FirstTimer

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I was referring to the season prior to last season in regards to New York. They finished close to where I expected last season. Fields wasn't there last season.
Awesome! How is that relevant to this year when the rosters, especially Chicago's is incredibly different?

Danny Granger has "injury issues" as well.
Oh wow. One of Indiana's players. ONE.

Every key Bulls player has injury problems. The other "key player" Butler is a completely unproven commodity over the course of an NBA season.

TOTALLY THE SAME THING!

Luol Deng's wrist and Joakim Noah always playing with some lingering foot/ankle injury are going to still be a problem but they are simple enough role players that the team won't suffer as much because of it.
So Deng and Noah are simply "role players" for the Bulls now?

:andruw:



David West has had a lot of knee problems as well.

David West has played in 93% of the available games since the 07-08 season.
I have confidence in Rose's health next season seeing as he has had well over a year of rest. That is not much of an issue for me.
It should be. Rose's issue wasn't that he needed rest, it's that he needed to keep rehabbing and didn't. Rose needed the exact opposite of rest.


Please get a clue before posting.
 
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FirstTimer

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Mirotic, 22, is now the youngest MVP in ACB history.

The 6-foot-10 power forward earned MVP honors after averaging 12.6 points and 5.5 rebounds this season as Real Madrid earned a 30-4 record to win the league by four games. Mirotic shot 50.5 percent overall and 43.5 percent from three-point land, while shooting 80.7 percent from the free-throw line. ---

Cool story.

What's his NBA statline?
 

FirstTimer

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1.5mill. To be brash here, if I was the owner of the Chicago freaking Bulls, and my net worth was something along the lines of 350mill, I don't think I would lose much sleep after buying him out. Maybe Jerry has that Scrooge McDuck mentality when it comes to getting rich.

The Bulls can't pay all of his buyout(They can only pay around $600k) w/o it counting against the team salary. Mirotic has to shoulder most of the load($2.5 million).

Chicago Bulls fans eager for Nikola Mirotic to join the team that drafted him with the 24th pick in 2011 will likely have to wait until the summer of 2014, general manager Gar Forman explained.

"You're slotted in the first round, and I think the slot for No. 24 is $1.3 or $1.4 million," Forman said Thursday on "The Waddle & Silvy Show" on ESPN 1000. "Well, he makes a lot more money than that right now over at Real Madrid. So the way the CBA is written is after three years then you're no longer slotted. Then you can use whether it's exception room or cap room in order to pay a guy.

"So there's no possibility this summer because next year will be his third year. But after next year, the summer of 2014, then we'll be able to start some negotiations as far as a buyout possibly with Real Madrid or negotiate with him to come over here."

http://chicago.sbnation.com/chicago-bulls/2012/12/13/3762740/nikola-mirotic-chicago-bulls-stats

Mirotic has a contract that includes a buyout of roughly $2 million euros and he also doesn't want to be subject to the NBA's rookie scale. Since teams can only contribute a certain percentage of the buyout, Mirotic wants a higher salary to help pay-off whatever financial obligation is left. Gibson said Mirotic is "worth every penny" of Chicago's mid-level exception and that's likely what it will come down to.

Knowledge is power.

Get some.


http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-b...umbers-behind-the-mirotic-contract-situation/

Sharp-shooting Real Madrid PF Nikola Mirotic has been tearing it up with Real Madrid, becoming the first player in the history of the Euroleague to earn the Rising Star Trophy two consecutive years. Salivating Bulls fans have repeatedly asked what options the Bulls have to bring the Spanish-naturalized Montenegrin over before his contract expires, and beat writers have generally shrugged the question off by saying, in effect, “it’s complicated.”

As it turns out, it is very, very complicated. So we’ve rolled up our sleeves to do all of the painstaking computations for the curious. The rest of the article is like sitting through a high school math class, so I’ll start with the conclusions up front:

It is cost prohibitive for Mirotic to come over before the 2014-2015 season.
The Bulls will have to use an MLE, not the Rookie Scale, to sign Mirotic (they have this option beginning in 2014). This means, barring trades, Mirotic will be the major addition in the year they bring him over - they will be unable to sign another major free agent (Chicago will only have minimum contracts and possibly the Bi-Annual Exception left to offer).
The full Mid-Level Exception will probably be required to sign Mirotic. The mini-MLE would be a significant pay cut even if the buyout were negotiated down to zero. This means the Bulls will only be able to sign him in a non-taxpaying year. Deng’s contract comes off the books in 2014, Boozer’s in 2015.

In the 2011 Draft, the Chicago Bulls traded their 28th and 43rd picks to Minnesota in exchange for the Rocket's 23rd pick (owned by the Timberwolves), which was used to select Mirotic. They now own his “draft rights,” which is to say that he must sign with Chicago if he comes to the NBA. Including a unilateral team option, Mirotic is under contract with Real Madrid through the 2016-2017 season. The Bulls have his draft selection “on pause” until a year after his European contract expires, so they own his draft rights through 2018.

If Mirotic does not sign with the Bulls by 2018, he has the right to re-enter the draft and be selected by another team (this would be foolish, however, since the Bulls can pay him a lot more money). If Mirotic does not sign with the Bulls by 2014 - three years after he was selected - Chicago can treat him as any other free agent, paying him with a Mid-Level Exception or…ahem…cap space (yeah right). If Mirotic were to re-enter the draft in 2018 and be selected by a new team, he’d be stuck with a rookie scale contract again, though he would be selected much higher once free of his Spanish contractual obligations. If he did re-enter the draft, but also failed to sign with his new team for an entire year, he would become a full-fledged free agent in the summer of 2019.
The Buyout

An early termination clause in Mirotic’s contract with Real Madrid sets his “buyout” at $3,149,000 [see Note 1] to defect to an NBA team any earlier than 2017-2018. The new CBA limits the amount that the Bulls can pay without having it count against team salary. Here is what they can contribute each summer:
Buy out rates
Signing Bonus Limitations

Chicago can pay more than the above listed amounts, but any more will count against team salary, and therefore essentially comes out of Mirotic’s pocket (Chicago is paying a portion of his salary to Real Madrid instead of Mirotic). Money paid towards an international buyout (in excess of the excluded amount) is treated as a signing bonus for salary cap purposes.

Signing bonuses are often a raw deal for the players. While they get a good chunk of change upfront (up to 15% of the total value of the contract), the overall value of the contract has to be slightly less in order to include the bonus. While the entire signing bonus is paid right away, for accounting/salary cap purposes it is divided up evenly amongst guaranteed years (years not 100% guaranteed are prorated). For example, normally a team (over the soft cap) could sign a free agent for the full MLE of $5 million (in 2012), with a max raise of $225,000 per year (4.5% of the first year salary). A four-year contract would be worth $21,350,000. If they gave him the maximum signing bonus, however, the bonus is divided up evenly amongst all guaranteed years (presumably all four) to count against team salary.

The first year still must fit within any exceptions or restrictions, leading to a smaller “base” salary. The 4.5% raise only applies to the base salary, while the ¼ of the signing bonus remains constant in each year. This leads to less money overall. To maximize the signing bonus in the case of the 2012 MLE, this “base” salary would be $4,207,400. The signing bonus would be $3,170,400, with $792,600 (one quarter) counting against team salary in each of the four years. The first year base salary ($4,207,400) plus that year’s share of the bonus ($792,600) still falls within the $5,000,000 MLE. But now the player’s raises are limited to $189,333 per year (instead of $225,000). The total value of the contract now is worth $21,135,998. In exchange for receiving a hefty payment upfront, the player gives up $214,000 overall (not too bad).
Rookie Scale

The situation is much more difficult, however, with rookie scale contracts. For rookies drafted in the first round, there is a set salary scale for each draft position (#1 makes more than #30). Teams must sign the player for somewhere between 80% and 120% of this scale (rookies are almost always signed for 120%). All rookie contracts are for four years, 100% guaranteed in the first two seasons and not guaranteed in the second two seasons. Any signing bonus (international buyouts count as signing bonuses) must be evenly divided between the first two seasons, with the first year salary falling within the 80%-120% restriction both with and without the bonus. Mirotic was drafted at #23, so here is his set rookie scale salary in each year:

Mirotic’s max signing bonus for 2012-2013 would be $803,040, which is double the difference between his 120% salary and his 80% salary (because it is applied to both years 1 and 2) [Note 2]. But because his base salary is only 80% of the scale, Mirotic would take a pretty big financial hit over the life of his four-year contract. In order to receive $803,040 upfront, he would earn more than $1 million less overall. The NBA is nothing short of a loan shark, charging that kind of interest for cash advances (125% for a two year loan!), and it still wouldn't cover the entire buyout. Mirotic is clearly better off with a private loan of some sort. The table below shows the impact of accepting a max signing bonus to assist with the buyout:

But we haven’t yet factored in the opportunity cost of Mirotic giving up his $4,408,600 Real Madrid salary. When we subtract his current salary, a negative number implies he's giving up money by coming to the NBA, a positive number means he's making more, and zero means he breaks even. His Real Madrid salary runs through 2016-2017, but for the sake of comparison we’ll assume that after 2017 he could continue to sign one-year contracts with Real Madrid each year for the same amount (in all likelihood he could get a raise). The updated chart shows the impact of the buyout and giving up his salary, and the total cost to Mirotic. Note that the signing bonus is not included in the total value of the contract, since it is paid directly to Real Madrid (otherwise it would be double-counted since it is already reflected by Mirotic paying a smaller amount himself).

As you can see, Mirotic would have to give up an obscene amount of money ($14-$16 million) to leave a team and country that he loves for a Rookie Scale contract before his Real Madrid contract runs out in 2017. Starting in 2014, though, Chicago’s options open up. They will be able to pay him the full Mid-Level Exception (or the mini-MLE in years where they are above the Luxury Tax threshold), and they can minimize the negative impacts of a signing bonus by guaranteeing all four years of the contract (instead of just the first two). The first table shows what MLE and mini-MLE contracts would look like (both with and without a signing bonus of the remaining buyout or the max 15%, whichever is less), while the second table includes the differential of his foregone ACB salary.

By subtracting his current Real Madrid salary from each year, it becomes clear where Mirotic’s break even point is:

Money isn’t everything, but anything short of the full MLE will cost Mirotic substantially. All indications are that he is very happy living in Spain, a key contributor for one of the better teams in the league widely considered the best outside of the NBA (the ACB). There is no reason to believe that he would pay millions of dollars to leave. Starting in 2014, and only with the full MLE, it will begin to make financial sense for Mirotic to transfer over to the NBA.

Looking at the data, I predict that Mirotic will come over to the NBA in Chicago’s first non-taxpaying year on or after the 2014-2015 season. This will either be in 2014-2015 (Deng’s contract expiring in conjunction with a Boozer amnesty), or in 2015-2016 (Boozer’s contract expiring, letting some non-guaranteed role players walk). It will require the full MLE to pay off his entire buyout, and it will also require the full MLE for Chicago to match or raise his current salary. I can’t see Mirotic coming early for the mini-MLE. Even after his European contract runs out the mini-MLE would be a pay cut, though it could be argued that he would be playing for a larger contract three years later. All of the numbers could be tweaked slightly by fluctuations in the exchange rate (if the euro continues to tank, the NBA is more appealing) or by negotiating his 2,500,000€ buyout down (which the Bulls are allowed to do with Real Madrid), but I stand by the prediction that it will take the full MLE. And he certainly seems to be worth it.

---------------------------------

All CBA information has been taken from Larry Coon’s legendary Salary Cap FAQ website. Larry Coon is a computer scientist that is famous for being the only human on earth that understands the intricacies of the unnecessarily complex Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Note 1: Based on the euro-dollar exchange rate on the morning of 15 June.

Note 2: It appears that international buyouts in conjunction with rookie scale contracts are exempt from the signing bonus cap (15% of the total value of the contract), as the rookie scale example in question 74 of the Salary Cap FAQ breaks the 15% rule. Attempting to confirm. If the 15% rule does apply, Mirotic’s max bonus in 2012 would be $732,878 (instead of $803,040) based on a base salary of 83% of the Rookie Scale and a 15% signing bonus allocated to the first two years.
 
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scottiepippen1994

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ill bet some people here would of believed that Tony Kucoc was going to be the next Michael jordan back in the days before he came here. :lol:
 

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i believe in nikola but no we wouldn't be title favorites

however if he pans out we clearly won the 2011 draft (outside of the cavs)
 

JosMin

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ChettheJet

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Yeah a guy who has never even seen an NBA game in person would make a huge difference, in your fantasy camp.

What I heard once long ago about Boston sports fans was, the most popular and talented players in the city were ALWAYS the back up goalie for the Bruins and the backup quarterback for the Patriots. Too many Bulls fans are the same way, the guy who they've never seen play an entire NBA game is better than everybody they have been watching.
 

Raskolnikov

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miro is better than most euro trash. the world has gotten better, particularly spain, and so has the league he is dominang at 22. He already plays against the best in europe, africa, and a collection of d league level americans. he plays tough, and can shoot. then again hansbourough is a college phenom and so was that gonzaga wonder kid....still the main issue Isee is the bulls talking mid level exception to offset his contract, but couldnt madrid decide to make him highest paid player in europe? i think garpax are predictably undervaluing his worth come 2014.
 

scottiepippen1994

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the same idiots that posted that Miritoc was going to be the next Dirk nowitzki the other day.
And the same idiots that would start Mirotic over boozer right away.
Thats like starting Tony kucoc over Pippen in 1993.
Those who are depending on Mirotoc to put the Bulls over the edge are pipedreaming.
Just read BearPrides posts on recent threads.
comparing mirotoc to dirk is just plain ridiculous considering Mirotic never played an NBa game.
Its very possible that Mirotoc could become a roll player or scrub in the NBA if he ever gets here at all.
And it seems to me like PaxGar are also depending on Mirotoc as well.
maybe that explains PaxGars standpat behavior.
Its silly.
:andruw:
 
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CODE_BLUE56

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miro is better than most euro trash. the world has gotten better, particularly spain, and so has the league he is dominang at 22. He already plays against the best in europe, africa, and a collection of d league level americans. he plays tough, and can shoot. then again hansbourough is a college phenom and so was that gonzaga wonder kid....still the main issue Isee is the bulls talking mid level exception to offset his contract, but couldnt madrid decide to make him highest paid player in europe? i think garpax are predictably undervaluing his worth come 2014.

Euroball,to be fair, is a little different than NBA. I think Mirotic could end up being a pretty damn good player, but we just don't know that yet because we've never seen him in an NBA setting. Looks like from the reports and everything considered he fits the mold of a Euro big. Meaning a bit lanky,long, good vision and IQ, versatile, VERY good shooter. Athleticism and strength leave a bit to be desired though. He probably needs to fill out his frame and/or gain some strength to really make that jump. Not sure what his actual weight is, i've seen anything from 209 to 225, so :shrug:.

Interesting you bring up Hansbrough(Tyler) and Morrison. I dont think people expected Hansbrough to be a bona fide #2/#3 offensive option starter or anything, I thought he went a little early when he was picked up by Indiana at the end of the lotto(i think it was). Hansbrough had a good motor,soft hands for rebounding and catching in the post, and good scoring ability in the post. He never really had much,if any, perimeter skills though and while he's not tiny,he's not exactly huge or athletic for that matter. IIRC he was a 5 in college and benefited by playing in a system tailored to big men who have soft hands,can rebound, and run the floor. Having an NBA level PG helps too.

Morrison just never put it together. He and Redick went completely different directions. The ACL tear had a bit to do with that, but it seemed like he never became much of a complete NBA player(being more than scorer and shooter, i mean).
 

PolarBear

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Ridiculous.

Mirotic is soft. He doesn't bang in the middle, he doesn't rebound and he doesn't defend. I fully expect him to be the next Andrea Bargnani without the ridiculous contract. He will be a solid stretch 4 role player.
 

Bear Pride

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the same idiots that posted that Miritoc was going to be the next Dirk nowitzki the other day.
And the same idiots that would start Mirotic over boozer right away.
Thats like starting Tony kucoc over Pippen in 1993.
Those who are depending on Mirotoc to put the Bulls over the edge are pipedreaming.
Just read BearPrides posts on recent threads.
comparing mirotoc to dirk is just plain ridiculous considering Mirotic never played an NBa game.
Its very possible that Mirotoc could become a roll player or scrub in the NBA if he ever gets here at all.
And it seems to me like PaxGar are also depending on Mirotoc as well.
maybe that explains PaxGars standpat behavior.
Its silly.
:andruw:
Pip, you need to learn to read, Pal. I never compared anyone to Dirk. As a matter of fact, I really don't like Dirk. He's not my favorite player. Your thankbuddy, Hef, made a post pretty much saying Mirotic was white trash. All I did is post some positive stuff dude, as I think Mirotic could have a similar impact that Kucoc did, WHICH IS THE COMPARISON I MADE!!!
 

scottiepippen1994

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Pip, you need to learn to read, Pal. I never compared anyone to Dirk. As a matter of fact, I really don't like Dirk. He's not my favorite player. Your thankbuddy, Hef, made a post pretty much saying Mirotic was white trash. All I did is post some positive stuff dude, as I think Mirotic could have a similar impact that Kucoc did, WHICH IS THE COMPARISON I MADE!!!

Thats fine.
But Mirotic doesnt have as many tools in his game as Tony had.
Tony had Pippen and Phil to learn from and later Jordan.
Plus comparing Kucoc to Mirotoc is silly too.
They are different kinds of players....
If Mirotic has the kind of impact Tony had, ill be pleased.
But id use the rights to Mirotic as a trade piece to bring a star here now.......
Lamarcus Aldridge?
 
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Bear Pride

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the same idiots that posted that Miritoc was going to be the next Dirk nowitzki the other day.
And the same idiots that would start Mirotic over boozer right away.
Thats like starting Tony kucoc over Pippen in 1993.
Those who are depending on Mirotoc to put the Bulls over the edge are pipedreaming.
Just read BearPrides posts on recent threads.
comparing mirotoc to dirk is just plain ridiculous considering Mirotic never played an NBa game.
Its very possible that Mirotoc could become a roll player or scrub in the NBA if he ever gets here at all.
And it seems to me like PaxGar are also depending on Mirotoc as well.
maybe that explains PaxGars standpat behavior.
Its silly.

And Pip, here's an article quoting Zach Randolph when he played against Mirotic:

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bulls/post/_/id/9938/nikola-mirotic-showing-nba-his-stuff

Here's a fuckin quote for you Pal!

"I didn't know that the Bulls drafted him ‘til (Monday) night," Randolph said before Tuesday's game. "One of the workers told me at Grand Lux, I was eating. I like the kid, man. He's got a stroke on him, he can play smart, he's a little physical. I think he can make a statement in this league one day."

"Yeah, you got to put him at the right spot," Randolph said. "I don't think he could play four or five. I don't know how his ballhandling is so I couldn't say, but I know he can shoot like a 3. I know he could shoot very well so if you put him in the right situation and the right spots I think he could be effective."

Who knows? Maybe the Bulls are looking at him to replace Deng. Anyhow, I found it funny that Zack compared Mirotic to Dirk. Go figure?

"He reminds me of Dirk (Nowitzki) and a little bit of Gallo (Danilo Gallinari), just a little bit," Randolph said. "But I can see the Dirk comparisons. I can see why, definitely.
 

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