Weems Punt explained

All info taken from NFL.com rules...this is how I understand it, please read the rules and let me know if Im wrong...dont just assume I am.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/12_2012_Scrimmage_Kick.pdf

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/26_2012_Official_CaseBook.pdfA.R. 9.19 TEAM A TOUCHES IN FIELD OF PLAY AND TEAM B RECOVERS
Fourth-and-10 on A40. A4 touches the punt in the field of play at the B10, and B2 recovers the ball at the B4.
Ruling: B’s ball, first-and-10 on B10, the spot of A’s first touching

not exact but gets the point accross

A.R. 9.23 FIRST TOUCH—LAST PLAY OF PERIOD
Fourth-and-16 on A8. On the last play of the half, punter A1 gets off a poor punt, and A2 first touches the ball at the A12. B1
picks it up and runs to the A4 where he fumbles and A3 recovers in the end zone.
Ruling: B’s ball, first-and-10 on A12. Team B may choose to extend the period because A2 was the first to touch the punt.

A.R. 9.24 FIRST TOUCH—RECOVERY AND FUMBLE BY TEAM B
Fourth-and-5 on A30. Punter A1 kicks from the A16. The ball bounces at the B48 and then is first touched by A2 at the B46.
The ball rolls to the B40 where B1 picks it up and runs to the 50, fumbles, and A2 recovers.
Ruling: B’s ball, first-and-10 on B46, the spot of the first touch violation.


but this could happen

A.R. 9.25 FIRST TOUCH—FOUL BY TEAM B
Fourth-and-10 on 50. Punter A1 kicks from the A36. A2 is the first to touch the ball at the B14. The ball rolls to the B10, where
B1 picks up the ball, runs to the 50, fumbles, and A3 recovers there. During B1’s run, B2 clipped on the B40.
Ruling: A’s ball, first-and-10 on B35. The personal foul by B2 can be carried over the fumble and enforced from the dead
ball spot. The enforcement of that foul eliminates the spot of first touching.


Bears Game

VIkes kick ball
Vikes illegally touch ball in air in the endzone
Assume it was touched at the 1 yard line
Bears grab the ball/bat
Vikes touch the balland it goes out of bounce.

Now I was partially wrong. IF the vikes got possession it would have been brought back to the 1 yard line, not the 20. When a player jumps and knocks the ball back into play it is from where he leaped..not the ball

you are making your explanation way too complicated with several scenarios. The rule is quite simple: If the kicking team is the first to touch the ball, the receiving team has the option of taking the ball where it was touched, or where the ball ends. When the Vikings touched it at the 1 yard line, and then it was pushed out of bounds behind the endzone, we had the option of placing the ball on either the 1 or the 20. We chose the 20.

gallagher said:

you are making your explanation way too complicated with several scenarios. The rule is quite simple: If the kicking team is the first to touch the ball, the receiving team has the option of taking the ball where it was touched, or where the ball ends. When the Vikings touched it at the 1 yard line, and then it was pushed out of bounds behind the endzone, we had the option of placing the ball on either the 1 or the 20. We chose the 20.

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People like quotes and proof and crap lol

gallagher said:

you are making your explanation way too complicated with several scenarios. The rule is quite simple: If the kicking team is the first to touch the ball, the receiving team has the option of taking the ball where it was touched, or where the ball ends. When the Vikings touched it at the 1 yard line, and then it was pushed out of bounds behind the endzone, we had the option of placing the ball on either the 1 or the 20. We chose the 20.

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This, it is not rocket science. Surprised fans didn't already know this rule.

bears26 said:

This, it is not rocket science. Surprised fans didn't already know this rule.

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but wait, what would have taken place if the Vikes had been successful recovering Weems' batted ball in the end zone? i don't understand how that could possibly by our ball, let alone not a TD for them.

seems the ball was still live, as had been tossed back by Vike player and not yet been downed, right?

was this explained, or did i miss it?

discplayer said:

but wait, what would have taken place if the Vikes had been successful recovering Weems' batted ball in the end zone? i don't understand how that could possibly by our ball, let alone not a TD for them.

seems the ball was still live, as had been tossed back by Vike player and not yet been downed, right?

was this explained, or did i miss it?

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The ball is live but it is the Bears ball no matter what happens. Weems could have picked up the ball and ran for 50 yards and fumbled and the ball would still belong to the Bears.

dabearsjjk said:

People like quotes and proof and crap lol

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that was kinda complicated. punter A1? runs to the A4? too much

This was all figured out in what the fuck was weems thinking part 1.

Punts are different than kickoffs. Punting team has to give the receiving team a chance to catch or grab the ball. If the punting team touches the ball first they can never gain possession of the ball again on that play. If the receiving team touches the ball after the kicking team touches it first a penalty flag is thrown on the kicking team for illegal touching. No matter what happens to the receiving team after they touch it they can always take the penalty and get the ball where the kicking team touched it.

Bearfanfromnewjersey said:

that was kinda complicated. punter A1? runs to the A4? too much

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I had to read it about ten times but it makes since....came out of the NFL rule book

discplayer said:

but wait, what would have taken place if the Vikes had been successful recovering Weems' batted ball in the end zone? i don't understand how that could possibly by our ball, let alone not a TD for them.

seems the ball was still live, as had been tossed back by Vike player and not yet been downed, right?

was this explained, or did i miss it?

Click to expand...

It would have been bears ball at the one because the vikes illegally touched the ball

dabearsjjk said:

It would have been bears ball at the one because the vikes illegally touched the ball

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but that's the part i don't get... what made the Vikes' touch illegal?

are you saying that after Weems' touched it (following the Viking player batting it back from the EZ), and then they did again while trying to recover it, that THAT second touch by them was illegal?

i think i need more sleep, cause i'm still puzzled by this.

The first touch was "illegal."

On a punt, the receiving team is supposed to catch the punt. Thus, if you touch the ball before the receiving team does, it's considered an "illegal touch."

dabearsjjk said:

It would have been bears ball at the one because the vikes illegally touched the ball

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no, in his scenario the vikes recovered in the endzone. therefor, the bears still have the option of the touchback or the 1. We get teh touchback if we want.

and for discplayer: yeah the rule doesnt come up much because the punt returner usually bails so the ball doesnt hit him first. The illegal part is because the punt return team gets the first opportunity to touch the ball, period. As long as we dont touch it first (like a muffed punt or a fumble) we get the ball.

Son of a bitch. My reply just got erased but idiotically clicking the "Reply to Thread" button after typing it all in the Quick reply option instead of the tiny "Post Quick Reply" button below the screen scroll. Damn!
---------------------- take 2....

So if the returner bails on the punt and the kicking team touches or catches the ball "first" it is NOT a penalty right?

And if the kicking team touches the ball first when the returner makes a play on the ball, THAT is a penalty and a "free play" to return basically if kicking team touches but lets it go? (what happened)

If I'm right on both, the rule seems to make sense. If I'm not, please elaborate.

Jeesh, like i said, already explained in earlier threads/wikipedia/remy.

discplayer said:

but that's the part i don't get... what made the Vikes' touch illegal?

are you saying that after Weems' touched it (following the Viking player batting it back from the EZ), and then they did again while trying to recover it, that THAT second touch by them was illegal?

i think i need more sleep, cause i'm still puzzled by this.

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When the vikings jump in the air and batted the ball back into play, that was the illegal part.

As soon as Weems touched the ball it became legal again.

It turned out the vikings kicked the ball out of the endzone (touchback)

If the vikings would have recovered the ball in the endzone (touchdown)

However they illegal touch would have brought it back to the 1

Mephias said:

The first touch was "illegal."

On a punt, the receiving team is supposed to catch the punt. Thus, if you touch the ball before the receiving team does, it's considered an "illegal touch."

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exactly.

gallagher said:

no, in his scenario the vikes recovered in the endzone. therefor, the bears still have the option of the touchback or the 1. We get teh touchback if we want.

and for discplayer: yeah the rule doesnt come up much because the punt returner usually bails so the ball doesnt hit him first. The illegal part is because the punt return team gets the first opportunity to touch the ball, period. As long as we dont touch it first (like a muffed punt or a fumble) we get the ball.

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When the player jumps in the air and knocks the ball back the spot of the foul is taken where the player leaves the field.

So if the player leaps from the 1 yard line and bats the ball back into play, the illegal touch started at the 1.

The minute a Bear touches the ball its a live ball.

If the vikings would have gained possession of the ball in the endzone it would have been a TD.

However since a illegal touch happened first, the bears would have excepted the ball illegal touch at the 1

Starion said:

Son of a bitch. My reply just got erased but idiotically clicking the "Reply to Thread" button after typing it all in the Quick reply option instead of the tiny "Post Quick Reply" button below the screen scroll. Damn!
---------------------- take 2....


If I'm right on both, the rule seems to make sense. If I'm not, please elaborate.

Click to expand...

So if the returner bails on the punt and the kicking team touches or catches the ball "first" it is NOT a penalty right?

Click to expand...

Its called a "illegal touch" and the ball is down where they touched the ball.

And if the kicking team touches the ball first when the returner makes a play on the ball, THAT is a penalty and a "free play" to return basically if kicking team touches but lets it go? (what happened)

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Yes basically its a free play. If the kicking team touches the ball and lets it roll the ball is spotted at the place of the illegal touch.