I think the cubs should make a run at Dan Haren this off season.

brett05

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waldo7239117 said:
Carlos Gonzalez. And it'll be more players on course.
Click to expand...

Like who? You start with Those two pitchers as if they are the cornerstones of a possible trade offer. They'd be fringe players in a deal of that magnitude. Both sides of twon need to stop pipe dreaming on Cargo, Stanton, etc.
 

waldo7239117

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brett05 said:
Like who? You start with Those two pitchers as if they are the cornerstones of a possible trade offer. They'd be fringe players in a deal of that magnitude. Both sides of twon need to stop pipe dreaming on Cargo, Stanton, etc.
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They can be. Samardzija more than Arrieta. Samardzija (like Arrieta better, don't like Samardzija), Szczur, James Russell, Nick Struck.
 
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brett05 said:
As respectful as I can be....
Qty=/= Quality
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Shark has two years of control and considered top 10 stuff in the league. He played on a bad team in a bad year. You look for future production not past. Shark would be a core piece in any trade. So, as respectful as I can be, you need to look more than a season.
 
CSF77

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What would you consider to be a core LG bat for either of those two?
Click to expand...

Cargo As above.

If they were willing to spend some:

Tanaka, Wood, Baker, Arretta, Jackson
Closer worth a damn

Long term line up:
SS Castro
CF Lake
LF Cargo
2B Baez
3B Bryant
1B Rizzo
RF Soler
C Castillo

I believe it would take Shark, Almora and a most likely Pierce Johnson to get Cargo.

It would be worth it.
 

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SilenceS said:
Shark has two years of control and considered top 10 stuff in the league. He played on a bad team in a bad year. You look for future production not past. Shark would be a core piece in any trade. So, as respectful as I can be, you need to look more than a season.
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I have...Shark is a mid level pitcher with at best above mid average future, age included. And you want tot alk about cost controlled, Cargo's contract is extremely team friendly and good thru 2017 (aka 4 more seasons)
 
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brett05 said:
And it wouldn't be near enough
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brett05 said:
I have...Shark is a mid level pitcher with at best above mid average future, age included. And you want tot alk about cost controlled, Cargo's contract is extremely team friendly and good thru 2017 (aka 4 more seasons)
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This is always fun because it boils down to a Cubs-Sox issue as always. But we are talking about a guy with front of the rotation stuff and cost control for two seasons and a top 50 prospect and another top 10ish prospect in a deep system as not even close. All of this for a guy who has never played more than a 145 games in a season and has averaged 124 years his past three years.

Sure Jeff Samardzija's future might be an average starter. There are plenty of people who argue that, but you can't just wave your hands and say that it is impossible for him to become more. He has already achieved far more than many predicted and it isn't a stretch to see him pitching better moving forward. Almora is a huge prospect. He is overshadowed because the system is stacked right now, but this isn't a scrub prospect that is being tossed out there. And another legitiate arm that probably starts the year in AA. That is legitimate package there for a stud that is cost controlled with injury concerns.
 
CSF77

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Colorado is going to value pitching over hitting at that park. That park makes avg hitters studs. It makes good pitchers bad. So they are looking for arms more so that have hard stuff. The air affects breaking stuff vs a hard fastball. Shark has issues with control over his split and I'm wondering if his split would even be effective in Col.
 

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I think Shark would easily be worth what Garza was when he wast traded to the cubs.
 

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dabynsky said:
This is always fun because it boils down to a Cubs-Sox issue as always.
Click to expand...

You think that will happen or you think that I am using my hatred of a team causing me to be severely biased (everyone has a bias)? As for the later I am doing no such thing.

But we are talking about a guy with front of the rotation stuff and cost control for two seasons and a top 50 prospect and another top 10ish prospect in a deep system as not even close. All of this for a guy who has never played more than a 145 games in a season and has averaged 124 years his past three years.
Click to expand...

And it's not enough IMO. And I am not even going to go into teams that could offer more.

Sure Jeff Samardzija's future might be an average starter. There are plenty of people who argue that, but you can't just wave your hands and say that it is impossible for him to become more.
Click to expand...

Where did I say impossible?


He has already achieved far more than many predicted and it isn't a stretch to see him pitching better moving forward.
Click to expand...
Not a stretch to see him regress either.

Almora is a huge prospect.
Click to expand...

Define huge for this apparently injury prone prospect at this stage (fully acknowledging he could be a healthy horse that could potentially be an AS player in bigs but probably not as good as Cargo already is.)

He is overshadowed because the system is stacked right now, but this isn't a scrub prospect that is being tossed out there. And another legitiate arm that probably starts the year in AA. That is legitimate package there for a stud that is cost controlled with injury concerns.
Click to expand...

Never said Almora was a scrub. I don't know if you noticed, but you commented on the trade that CSF77 changed from the original one proposed. Would Shark, Almora and Johnson be enough? I take back the near.
 
CSF77

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Johnson is looking like top of the rotation. Shark has 2-3 stuff. They signed a 100 MPH starter. To me that is desirable. Almora has solid skills accross the board. He is top 25 talent. It is not a bad haul at all. Shoot toss in Olt for all I care. Coors may save his career.
 

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It's two top 5 Cubs prospects and a pitcher than can be good. It's a fair deal, no doubt.
 
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beckdawg said:
I think Shark would easily be worth what Garza was when he wast traded to the cubs.
Click to expand...

:andruw:

Garza>>>Shark. Then, now, tomorrow, 5 years from now. Shark is nothing more than a 4 starter on a contending team.

He isn't an ace or even a two. At least Garza was a fringe 2.
 
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brett05 said:
You think that will happen or you think that I am using my hatred of a team causing me to be severely biased (everyone has a bias)? As for the later I am doing no such thing.



And it's not enough IMO. And I am not even going to go into teams that could offer more.



Where did I say impossible?



Not a stretch to see him regress either.



Define huge for this apparently injury prone prospect at this stage (fully acknowledging he could be a healthy horse that could potentially be an AS player in bigs but probably not as good as Cargo already is.)



Never said Almora was a scrub. I don't know if you noticed, but you commented on the trade that CSF77 changed from the original one proposed. Would Shark, Almora and Johnson be enough? I take back the near.
Click to expand...

It's a bigger stretch of him regressing then progressing. He is 28 just going into his prime. I'm not making up top 10 stuff. Fan graphs and other experts have put him there. Two years of control is a major thing in baseball. You need to look at past trades and see where they fall. Shark would be a centerpiece to any team. He is major league proven with the potential to be a top on the line pitcher. The risk is far less then a prospect who has never seems the majors. He also has shown no injury concerns and doesn't have much mileage on his arms. It's more than this years numbers
 

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Maybe not as much, but Garza was a soon to be free agent. While Shark has a couple years and then free agency. I can see it being close. It's not like the Cubs got a huge offer for Garza, they took more chances on the players and hope they work out. Olt has struggled big time, Ramirez has a injury history. Edwards was obvious the key pieces in the trade.

Grimm will be a RP it seems.
 
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Ya and to the Cubs: I bet Lake keeps improving where he adapts to CF. system depth they have Szczur at CF. they could consider moving Alcantra over to CF if needed. It doesn't have to be Almora or bust there. Looking forward with Soler, Baez, Bryant they need another LH bat on-top of Rizzo. Now a in house solution would be to move Rizzo to LF and plug Vogelbach in at 1B and hold onto their prospects. Now this is not a bad solution either. They would lose at D but would still have 2 30 HR potenial LH bats in the line up. So looking long term the glaring need is a LH power bat to offset the 3 power RH bat they have upcoming.
 

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I've put down the Cubs Stink kool-Aid, many of you need to put down the Cubs Rule Kool Aid.
 
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