brett05
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if that is what you want to believe....
if that is what you want to believe....
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What I want to believe? Lol good info. Go back to the Sox board. I'm sure Gordon backham is still the next coming
CSF77
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Hey pass some of the Baez flavor. I'll try some Bryant flavor later
brett05
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I mean seriously, would someone saying that Jeff isn't one of the top 32 pitchers in the National League and not top 75 pitchers in all of baseball amongst the starters be surprising? And that doesn't even count the prospects in the minors. Seriously SilenceS, you are too hung up. And now you've results to strawman attacks calling Gordon the next coming. LOL
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Hung up on what? That I know values between a major league starter with huge potential that can dominate games plus a top 25 player plus another top 100 pitcher plus more would not be enough for a left fielder who is great but also not extremely valuable defensive wise. You lack knowledge of what teams covet and say people are on the kool aid. It's extremely laughable because you use one season to judge. How about you search fan graphs and other sites and see what they think of shark. You completely over value one player on a team. Hence, why you think Chris sale is worth the world. He is worth a lot but you are extreme. So, yes go back to the white sox board and talk about how backham will still be great.
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They going to be all up in your kool aid next year and you won't even know the flavor.
CSF77
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That is why I posted a top 25 prospect. A solid starting prospect. A major league starter and a toss in of a fallen from grace top 25 prospect. That would be concidered a solid haul for cargo. Shark has Ace stuff. I do not believe any person can argue that fact. Now on his persona. It is also a top of the rotation mentality. Out spoken an a give me the ball type. But it has not amounted to wins. It is a gamble if he will ever make it to the next plateau, much less 10 wins. But if he was a 15+ game winner we wouldn't be talking Shark and for cargo. It is all perspective value at this point.
CSF77
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I hope so
CSF77
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But to the main point of the thread I would be fine if they held the deck with the rotation and gave Baker a team friendly deal. Bosio has done more with less than Baker's talent. Except Shark and Jackson. Not sure why those 2 are not better. Stuff wise they both can be nasty.
brett05
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Because at some point you have to say they just aren't good.
brett05
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You are hilarious. Ignorant, but funny so that gets points in my book. :lol:
brett05
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{b}I think [/b] that if that deal would get it done, it's be done. Sorry Cargo is a top 15-20 non-pitcher, maybe even better than that. Shark tops out somewhere around 75-100 from current MLB starters. I just don't see Almora, Olt, Shark, and Johnson being nearly enough for a cost controlled at an ultra cheap price all star like Cargo.
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I'm not even gunna argue anymore. It's pointless and he won't listen anyways.
I'd rather just go with Arrieta, Rusin, Hendricks, Grimm, Cabrera, etc over Haren.
I'd rather just go with Arrieta, Rusin, Hendricks, Grimm, Cabrera, etc over Haren.
CSF77
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Hendricks is interesting. I'm not sure if his stuff translates to the majors but he has seen success with less talent. Rest are 4/5 talent. Arretta has some higher ended potential and has shut down quality major league O's when he is right. He is one starter who might find his potential as Wood did this year.
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Oh yeah, but I was just saying I'd rather keep the cheap options instead of spending 10+ million on Haren.
I do see Arreita in royation next year, Grimm may make bullpen, Hendricks will start in Triple-A, Rusin will compete in spring training and Cabrera will have to be in rotation or Bullpen of he's gone.
I do see Arreita in royation next year, Grimm may make bullpen, Hendricks will start in Triple-A, Rusin will compete in spring training and Cabrera will have to be in rotation or Bullpen of he's gone.
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Great post again. Full of information and knowledge. :X
beckdawg
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The way I look at it is Haren would be another option. I'd rather see someone win the job than to just hand it to someone. And that goes for Jackson, Wood and Shark as well. I get the argument that you can spend that money some where else but I just really don't see a better value. A player like Schierholtz having a good year just wont bring the same return as a player like Feldman or Maholm. And I would argue that Haren has the potential to rebound into a Dempster/Garza type season which obviously would be a much bigger pay day.
I just don't really see the down side. At worst you waste some money. But as I have said, I'm not really sure where the cubs can spend that money and get better return value. You can still bring in Tanaka. You can still bring in 2 mid tier FA OFs.
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You do realize that only 76 starters have qualified for innings the past two seasons combined. Shark checks in at 56 in terms of ERA and much better when you look at FIP, xFIP, Ks, etc. The results absolutely point to a top 75 starter.
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The problem is that guys like Jackson have to be on the roster somehow or someway. The Cubs right now have 10 pitchers that are going to have to be on the roster right now or risk losing them. There are only so many people you can add on major league deals. If we are adding to that number I want them to be true impact guys not guys that we are hoping will be impact guys.
beckdawg
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Ok but are Grimm, Villenuva and the various other guys competing for the #5 role really impact guys either? That's the thing, if Haren is what he was this season he's the same as those guys save for maybe Arrieta if he gets consistent. However, if he does rebound to what I have suggested he might be the best pitcher on the cubs. I get the argument your making but I'm not convinced a lot of these guys need to be on the major league roster.
I agree it may be a risk but like I've said, what else would there be to better spend the money? If it is needed to get someone like Tanaka then fine don't go for Haren. But I really think they are going to have money to spare. They've shown you can show case a guy for 3 months and trade him for usable parts. Part of the reason they did it this year was to set back Wood's arbitration years. They could do the same thing with someone like Arrieta/Hendricks. Grab Haren for 3 months, manage his starts to make him look presentable and trade him at the end of June/start of July.
If he goes for $13+ mil plus then fine let him walk but at $7-12 mil someone is going to need to add an arm. Worst case like I've said is your out a little money.
