I think the cubs should make a run at Dan Haren this off season.

The cubs have to make at least a token effort to replace Garza and have already been clear they wont spend big this off season. Last off season Haren got a 1 year $13 mil deal. His numbers are arguably worse this season so he could end up being cheaper than that. However, I think there's a couple reasons the cubs might be in on him. First, they tried to trade for him last year with Marmol. Additionally, if you compare his metrics not a lot has changed from his peak years. For example, 2008 is arguably his best year and he was 16-8 with a 3.33 ERA, 8.58 k/9, 1.67 BB/9, 73.4 % left on base, 44.2 % ground ball's and a 3.16 xFIP. This year he is 9-14 with a 4.87 ERA, 8.08 K/9, 1.66 BB/9, 69.4% left on base, 35.8% GB% and 3.69 xFIP.

Additionally, in the second half, Haren has pitched much better with a 3.88 ERA. The biggest difference has been his lower GB% and in the second half he's still down from his peak year but that has improved to 37.6%. Obviously, it is unlikely he'll reach that 2008 level again but the 2005, 2006 and 2010 years where he was a 4 WAR pitcher seems possible if he were to continue that improvement over a full season. He's been very reliable pitching more than 160 innings in every year since 2005.

He could be a very interesting trade piece at the deadline assuming the cubs aren't in contention again. In the past two years the cubs have made roughly $5 mil gambles on various pitchers like Maholm, Baker, Villanueva and Feldman. If they could get Haren for around $10 mil they would basically be turning 2 of those pitchers into a gamble on one who is a bit more likely to succeed. This approach makes slightly more sense because the cubs now have at least 4-5 intriguing options between Jackson, Shark, Wood, Arrieta, and Rusin. Also, if he were to turn into that 3-4 WAR pitcher again, his value at the deadline would probably be similar to Garza.

I would pass. He wouldn't be a bad option, but for the cost and his injury history.

I don't see the need for back end of the rotation types. The Cubs have plenty of options to fill out the bottom of the rotation for next season unlike the past few seasons. The issue is filling the top of the rotation and Dan Haren absolutely is not an option for that.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

Just in case you didnt see NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Rather resign Feldman

Why don't we just re-sign Garza to replace Garza?

Mr. Cub said:

Why don't we just re-sign Garza to replace Garza?

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Because Garza is going to be closer to $18-20 mil most likely and Haren might go for $10 mil or less.

As for Haren, if he's a 3-4 WAR pitchers as I suggested, he very well could be a solid #2ish starter. To put things into perspective, since 2008 Garza, who was considered a top of the rotation guy, has been a 3.2 WAR pitcher, 2.9, 1.6, 4.9, 1.1, and 2.1 this year. Haren over that same time frame has been a 6.1 WAR, 5.7, 4.1, 6.2, 1.8, and 1.2. Admittedly he's dropped off pretty harshly the past two seasons but as I said, his metrics suggest he's a better pitcher than the standard numbers would indicate and even then you're talking about someone who's been some what on par with Garza. Garza has average 2.6 WAR over those 6 years.. So, even if he is only a minor rebound to mid 2's he is still on par with Garza's recent seasons.

Oh, and one other thing. There's been talk of Shark being available for the right trade. The cubs can keep him for up to two more years and as of yet there's really not been any talks of re-signing him. There is a real possibility that the cubs will be at next year's trade deadline out of contention and decide to move him in which case having another mid rotation starter would be worth while.

beckdawg said:

Because Garza is going to be closer to $18-20 mil most likely and Haren might go for $10 mil or less.

As for Haren, if he's a 3-4 WAR pitchers as I suggested, he very well could be a solid #2ish starter. To put things into perspective, since 2008 Garza, who was considered a top of the rotation guy, has been a 3.2 WAR pitcher, 2.9, 1.6, 4.9, 1.1, and 2.1 this year. Haren over that same time frame has been a 6.1 WAR, 5.7, 4.1, 6.2, 1.8, and 1.2. Admittedly he's dropped off pretty harshly the past two seasons but as I said, his metrics suggest he's a better pitcher than the standard numbers would indicate and even then you're talking about someone who's been some what on par with Garza. Garza has average 2.6 WAR over those 6 years.. So, even if he is only a minor rebound to mid 2's he is still on par with Garza's recent seasons.

Oh, and one other thing. There's been talk of Shark being available for the right trade. The cubs can keep him for up to two more years and as of yet there's really not been any talks of re-signing him. There is a real possibility that the cubs will be at next year's trade deadline out of contention and decide to move him in which case having another mid rotation starter would be worth while.

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What evidence is there to suggest that a rebound is imminent for a 33 year old pitcher with medical red flags and declining velocity?

Look the Cubs kicked the tires on it last offseason and passed because of what they saw in the medicals. It turns out they were right. I don't see them looking to add a guy that is mostly like a four or five at this point in his career. Arrieta has a better chance of turning into a 2 at this point in his career than Dan Haren does, imo. And with a rotation with 3 locks already and tons and tons of options to fill out the bottom of the rotation with as much or more upside Dan Haren does at this point in his career.

Cubs need to be all in on Tanaka who is the one guy that is probably a 2 and you get peak years from. Everyone else is signing them to hope they rebound, and the Cubs have plenty of options to wish upon for next year.

If Theo Box Office wouldn't give up a turd for Haren, why would he willingly sign him?

dabynsky said:

What evidence is there to suggest that a rebound is imminent for a 33 year old pitcher with medical red flags and declining velocity?

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He has pitched 162 innings this year and hasn't pitched fewer than that since 2005 so the medical red flags are a bit over stated. As for evidence of a rebound, depends on what you're talking about rebounding to. He's not going to be a sub 3.25 ERA again. But in the second half of the season he's had a 3.88 ERA which frankly isn't that bad and his xFIP is even lower at 3.40. He has rebounded in the second half. If you don't believe me look at the splits.

Look at the years where he was about a 4 WAR pitcher
2005 14-12 6.76 K/9 2.20 BB/9 1.08 HR/9 .287 BABIP 72.5 % LOB% 46.4 % GB% 12.3 % HR/FB 3.73 ERA 3.89 FIP 3.67 xFIP 3.8 WAR
2006 14-13 7.10 K/9 1.82 BB/9 1.25 HR/9 .289 BABIP 72.2 % LOB% 45.2 % GB% 12.5 % HR/FB 4.12 ERA 4.12 FIP 3.87 xFIP 3.9 WAR
2010 12-12 8.27 K/9 2.07 BB/9 1.19 HR/9 .311 BABIP 74.4 % LOB% 40.5 % GB% 10.8 % HR/FB 3.91 ERA 3.71 FIP 3.49 xFIP 4.1 WAR

And now his second half split
2013 5- 4 8.40 K/9 1.68 BB/9 1.16 HR/9 .270 BABIP 72.1 % LOB% 37.6 % GB% 11.3 % HR/FB 3.88 ERA 3.51 FIP 3.40 xFIP

Is it that difficult to believe he can go back to that or something slightly less like say 3 WAR? You view that as a #4 or #5 starter. Now, on the nationals, sure he's a #4 because he's behind Gio, Strausburg and Zimmerman and on a lot of good teams he'd be there as well. But compare him to arguably the best pitcher on the cubs at this point Shark.

2012 9-13 9.27 K/9 2.89 BB/9 1.03 HR/9 .296 BABIP 73.0 % LOB% 44.6 % GB% 12.8 % HR/FB 3.81 ERA 3.55 FIP 3.38 xFIP 3.0 WAR
2013 8-12 9.10 K/9 3.38 BB/9 1.08 HR/9 .311 BABIP 71.9 % LOB% 48.2 % GB% 13.7 % HR/FB 4.33 ERA 3.83 FIP 3.47 xFIP 2.6 WAR

Additionally, how does signing Haren stop them from signing Tanaka? I'd estimate they have between $50-60 mil to spend next off season based on the $40 mil they spent last off season and saving around $16 mil between Marmol and Soriano. If you include Darvish's posting fee he was around $20 mil/year. So, conservatively let's call Tanaka $17 mil/year. Let's say Haren is $10 mil/year and let's say someone like Choo is $14 mil/year. That's $41 mil/year. The cubs would still have questions at 2B and 3B but there's honestly nothing outside of Cano or Zobrist at either position. So, we're likely to see Barney and a platoon of Valbeuna, Murphy and Ransom until Baez/Olt come up barring any kind of unforeseen trade. That would leave them around $10-15 mil to fill out the rest of their bench/bullpen and figure out what to do in the OF other than Choo which presumably will consist of Lake Schierholtz and maybe one addition.

beckdawg said:

He has pitched 162 innings this year and hasn't pitched fewer than that since 2005 so the medical red flags are a bit over stated. As for evidence of a rebound, depends on what you're talking about rebounding to. He's not going to be a sub 3.25 ERA again. But in the second half of the season he's had a 3.88 ERA which frankly isn't that bad and his xFIP is even lower at 3.40. He has rebounded in the second half. If you don't believe me look at the splits.

Look at the years where he was about a 4 WAR pitcher
2005 14-12 6.76 K/9 2.20 BB/9 1.08 HR/9 .287 BABIP 72.5 % LOB% 46.4 % GB% 12.3 % HR/FB 3.73 ERA 3.89 FIP 3.67 xFIP 3.8 WAR
2006 14-13 7.10 K/9 1.82 BB/9 1.25 HR/9 .289 BABIP 72.2 % LOB% 45.2 % GB% 12.5 % HR/FB 4.12 ERA 4.12 FIP 3.87 xFIP 3.9 WAR
2010 12-12 8.27 K/9 2.07 BB/9 1.19 HR/9 .311 BABIP 74.4 % LOB% 40.5 % GB% 10.8 % HR/FB 3.91 ERA 3.71 FIP 3.49 xFIP 4.1 WAR

And now his second half split
2013 5- 4 8.40 K/9 1.68 BB/9 1.16 HR/9 .270 BABIP 72.1 % LOB% 37.6 % GB% 11.3 % HR/FB 3.88 ERA 3.51 FIP 3.40 xFIP

Is it that difficult to believe he can go back to that or something slightly less like say 3 WAR? You view that as a #4 or #5 starter. Now, on the nationals, sure he's a #4 because he's behind Gio, Strausburg and Zimmerman and on a lot of good teams he'd be there as well. But compare him to arguably the best pitcher on the cubs at this point Shark.

2012 9-13 9.27 K/9 2.89 BB/9 1.03 HR/9 .296 BABIP 73.0 % LOB% 44.6 % GB% 12.8 % HR/FB 3.81 ERA 3.55 FIP 3.38 xFIP 3.0 WAR
2013 8-12 9.10 K/9 3.38 BB/9 1.08 HR/9 .311 BABIP 71.9 % LOB% 48.2 % GB% 13.7 % HR/FB 4.33 ERA 3.83 FIP 3.47 xFIP 2.6 WAR

Additionally, how does signing Haren stop them from signing Tanaka? I'd estimate they have between $50-60 mil to spend next off season based on the $40 mil they spent last off season and saving around $16 mil between Marmol and Soriano. If you include Darvish's posting fee he was around $20 mil/year. So, conservatively let's call Tanaka $17 mil/year. Let's say Haren is $10 mil/year and let's say someone like Choo is $14 mil/year. That's $41 mil/year. The cubs would still have questions at 2B and 3B but there's honestly nothing outside of Cano or Zobrist at either position. So, we're likely to see Barney and a platoon of Valbeuna, Murphy and Ransom until Baez/Olt come up barring any kind of unforeseen trade. That would leave them around $10-15 mil to fill out the rest of their bench/bullpen and figure out what to do in the OF other than Choo which presumably will consist of Lake Schierholtz and maybe one addition.

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All right a lot here, but you are correct that there is nothing that is financially preventing them from signing both Tanaka and Haren. The issue is the amount of resources being devoted to the starting rotation with three rotation spots already locked up. And the Cubs have tons of options to fill out one rotation spot with Villanueva, Cabrera, Grimm, Arrieta, Hendricks, and possibly bringing back Baker on an incentive based deal next year. Sure you can push a lot of those guys into the bullpen, but with a team with as many holes as the Cubs do does it really make sense to spend heavily on a yet another flip candidate?

Now why Dan Haren himself doesn't make a ton of sense. All right he pitched 162 IPs, but you can't wave away the fact that he only made 160ish IP because he spent a significant stay on the DL this year. Sure he could be all better now, but the odds are that he doesn't remain healthy as he gets older. Add in the declining velocity and results and the picture becomes bleaker. Except, of course for your second half numbers which show he is poised for a huge rebound this year. I mean he posted a 3.58 in the second half this year after a 4.86 ERA in the first half. Oh wait, that is the first and second half numbers from 2012, and we saw that huge rebound this year in performance with all of those positive indicators.

Edit-And because I think so little of him I forget to even mention Chris Rusin who has been solid but lucky for this season. He certainly has pitched well enough to earn a chance to compete for a spot next year. The Cubs just have so many options for the fourth and fifth spots that the focus needs to be getting impact guys at the top of the rotation, and Dan Haren is a long shot to being that type of guy at this point.

Sure you can push a lot of those guys into the bullpen, but with a team with as many holes as the Cubs do does it really make sense to spend heavily on a yet another flip candidate?

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Let's start here. The holes the cubs have are in the OF, 2B and 3B along with the top of the rotation starter you mentioned. There's really not much better than the platoon the cubs already have at 3B. At second base you're looking at Cano and possibly Zobrist if tampa declines his option. So, that really only leaves the OF where you can make a large impact via FA anyways offensively. If they can get something like Choo and Pence for $15 mil/year each or less then fine go for it but there's not a lot of OF that are even going to be 2+ WAR players either. At the moment you're talking about Ellsbury, Choo, Pence, Crisp, Byrd, McLouth, and possibly Cruz, Granderson, Beltran and Dejesus. The majority of these guys will be bigger ticket guys. However, you can probably bring in Choo + Crisp/Dejesus for ~$20 mil/year total which fits in with my earlier example of Tanaka, Choo, and Haren + $10-15 mil left over.

At $10 mil/year I wouldn't characterize Haren as "spending heavily." They gave Baker $5.5 mil on the hope that he would return healthy with little guarnatee. As for having a crowded group of pitchers, perhaps. But, really all of them save for Villenuvea can be left at AAA for more seasoning. Additionally, there's been rumors of Shark being traded. Wood could regress. And some if not all of the younger guys could be unready for the majors. So, I really don't see these concerns as being that big of a deal. Now, the more important discussion is he truly going to rebound. You bring up a fair point about 2012 although I would suggest you didn't dig deep enough just looking at the ERA.

2012 2nd half split
6.90 K/9 1.73 BB/9 1.48 HR/9 .262 BABIP 71.4 % LOB% 40.6 % GB% 13.5 % HR/FB 3.58 ERA 4.35 FIP 4.01 xFIP

2013 2nd half split
8.40 K/9 1.68 BB/9 1.16 HR/9 .270 BABIP 72.1 % LOB% 37.6 % GB% 11.3 % HR/FB 3.88 ERA 3.51 FIP 3.40 xFIP

As you can see his 2012 K/9 was substantially lower and his HR/9, FIP and xFIP are all substantially higher. This suggests that his stuff wasn't as good as evident by the fact he was striking out fewer batters along with his HR/9. Additionally, his FIP and xFIP suggest his ERA was more lucky. On the contrary, his 2013 second half actually suggest he has pitched better than his ERA suggests. Now, there are no guarantees on future performance for players and I'm not suggesting it's a lock that Haren will be that 3-4 WAR pitcher I think he can be. However, if Feldman, Maholm, Villenueva and Baker are worth a gamble, why isn't Haren? Even if you throw him out there as the 5th starter, if he gets the chance to pitch regularly and is able to put up the season I suggest he might have, he will hold significant value at the deadline. You are probably talking something near the return they got for Garza/Dempster which is significantly more than the Maholm/Feldman trades.

Also, where else are you going to spend the money? As I said there's not much they can do in FA at 3B and 2B and you can only start 3 OF's. Upgrading 1B and SS is out at the moment as well. That leaves you with OF and SPing.

beckdawg said:

Let's start here. The holes the cubs have are in the OF, 2B and 3B along with the top of the rotation starter you mentioned. There's really not much better than the platoon the cubs already have at 3B. At second base you're looking at Cano and possibly Zobrist if tampa declines his option. So, that really only leaves the OF where you can make a large impact via FA anyways offensively. If they can get something like Choo and Pence for $15 mil/year each or less then fine go for it but there's not a lot of OF that are even going to be 2+ WAR players either. At the moment you're talking about Ellsbury, Choo, Pence, Crisp, Byrd, McLouth, and possibly Cruz, Granderson, Beltran and Dejesus. The majority of these guys will be bigger ticket guys. However, you can probably bring in Choo + Crisp/Dejesus for ~$20 mil/year total which fits in with my earlier example of Tanaka, Choo, and Haren + $10-15 mil left over.

At $10 mil/year I wouldn't characterize Haren as "spending heavily." They gave Baker $5.5 mil on the hope that he would return healthy with little guarnatee. As for having a crowded group of pitchers, perhaps. But, really all of them save for Villenuvea can be left at AAA for more seasoning. Additionally, there's been rumors of Shark being traded. Wood could regress. And some if not all of the younger guys could be unready for the majors. So, I really don't see these concerns as being that big of a deal. Now, the more important discussion is he truly going to rebound. You bring up a fair point about 2012 although I would suggest you didn't dig deep enough just looking at the ERA.

2012 2nd half split
6.90 K/9 1.73 BB/9 1.48 HR/9 .262 BABIP 71.4 % LOB% 40.6 % GB% 13.5 % HR/FB 3.58 ERA 4.35 FIP 4.01 xFIP

2013 2nd half split
8.40 K/9 1.68 BB/9 1.16 HR/9 .270 BABIP 72.1 % LOB% 37.6 % GB% 11.3 % HR/FB 3.88 ERA 3.51 FIP 3.40 xFIP

As you can see his 2012 K/9 was substantially lower and his HR/9, FIP and xFIP are all substantially higher. This suggests that his stuff wasn't as good as evident by the fact he was striking out fewer batters along with his HR/9. Additionally, his FIP and xFIP suggest his ERA was more lucky. On the contrary, his 2013 second half actually suggest he has pitched better than his ERA suggests. Now, there are no guarantees on future performance for players and I'm not suggesting it's a lock that Haren will be that 3-4 WAR pitcher I think he can be. However, if Feldman, Maholm, Villenueva and Baker are worth a gamble, why isn't Haren? Even if you throw him out there as the 5th starter, if he gets the chance to pitch regularly and is able to put up the season I suggest he might have, he will hold significant value at the deadline. You are probably talking something near the return they got for Garza/Dempster which is significantly more than the Maholm/Feldman trades.

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The difference between when they signed Maholm, Feldman, Villanueva and Baker I have suggested is that in the past the Cubs didn't have the plethora of internal options to fill out the bottom of the rotation. Sure some of those guys could be stashed in the minors but Villanueva, Cabrera and Arrieta cannot be sent to the minors without risk of losing them in someway. The Cubs already have a bullpen full of decent options with Russell, Parker, and Strop as virtual locks. Push those three into the bullpen and you are already at 6 for your most likely 7 man bullpen. Then you've got Rondon, Rosscup, Lim and the various other starting pitching options to fill out the bullepn. There just aren't that many roster spots for flyer types like there was a year or two ago.

As far as Haren goes, you put a lot of stock in his performance in 60ish innings. I look at the past two years and see a different picture. We will see who is right because I Haren will get a spot somewhere. I just don't see the fit with the Cubs if they can land the true impact arms that they need for the rotation and bullpen at this point.

As far as the roster goes, you are right that the OF, 2B and 3B all need improvements. Add on top of that the bullpen could use a real impact lefty and or another late inning arm period. The rotation needs true top of the rotation starter. But beyond that we need a backup catcher because JC Boscan is the only other catcher on the 40 man roster and Navarro probably gets a shot at a starting gig somewhere after this year. You are going to see raises to Shark, Schierholtz, Wood, etc. eat into that figure as well. I don't see the ability to spend 50 million on three players for this roster and the likely budget constraints that you seem to.

dabynsky said:

The difference between when they signed Maholm, Feldman, Villanueva and Baker I have suggested is that in the past the Cubs didn't have the plethora of internal options to fill out the bottom of the rotation. Sure some of those guys could be stashed in the minors but Villanueva, Cabrera and Arrieta cannot be sent to the minors without risk of losing them in someway. The Cubs already have a bullpen full of decent options with Russell, Parker, and Strop as virtual locks. Push those three into the bullpen and you are already at 6 for your most likely 7 man bullpen. Then you've got Rondon, Rosscup, Lim and the various other starting pitching options to fill out the bullepn. There just aren't that many roster spots for flyer types like there was a year or two ago.

As far as Haren goes, you put a lot of stock in his performance in 60ish innings. I look at the past two years and see a different picture. We will see who is right because I Haren will get a spot somewhere. I just don't see the fit with the Cubs if they can land the true impact arms that they need for the rotation and bullpen at this point.

As far as the roster goes, you are right that the OF, 2B and 3B all need improvements. Add on top of that the bullpen could use a real impact lefty and or another late inning arm period. The rotation needs true top of the rotation starter. But beyond that we need a backup catcher because JC Boscan is the only other catcher on the 40 man roster and Navarro probably gets a shot at a starting gig somewhere after this year. You are going to see raises to Shark, Schierholtz, Wood, etc. eat into that figure as well. I don't see the ability to spend 50 million on three players for this roster and the likely budget constraints that you seem to.

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I agree they do have more players now in the pen. However, I think Haren is also a substantially better gamble than Feldman and Maholm. For example, they basically hit their top end. If Haren hits what I'm suggesting he's more of a 2/3 pitcher. As for the pitchers the cubs have, other than Arrieta, which of them have the ability to be more than 5th starters? That's why I see him as an upgrade. At his worst he's as good as they are and if he does improve he becomes a substantial value. If you are going to find value in FA you have to view smaller splits because anyone who is proven over a number of years will not only get their value but will often even be over paid.

As for the budget would you agree $50-60 mil is a reasonable estimate on what they have to spend? If so this is how I would break it down

Tanaka - $16-18 mil/year(includes posting fee)
Choo level corner OF - $14 mil/year(basically what Swisher got)
Haren - $10-12 mil/year(basically what he got last year discounted slightly for another so-so year)
Second OFer - $5 mil/year(Dejesus level player)
Back up catcher - $2-3 mil/year

That's $47-52 mil which would leave you with some money left over. Haren gives you an additional relatively cheap option who could turn into substantially more. Even a marginal improvement puts him on the level with Shark. My question is where can you get a better value? The only place I see is OF and how many quality $10-15 mil OF are out there? Additionally, if you start Arrieta/Hendricks in AAA and they are tearing it up by midseason you a great problem, too much pitching.

If there were a clear cut option at 2B or 3B I would say sure go after that. But, that's not the way the market is shaping up. So, I'd much rather see them take a shot on getting a pitcher who might be able to get them a big return. Also, let's say they get Tanaka. What happens if he struggles? What happens if Wood is a mirage? What happens is Arrieta remains as inconsistent as he has been throughout his career? I'd rather have too much pitching than not enough. If nothing else, Haren has proven to be an innings eater.

If you are not signing a better #1 then they have already then it is stupid to suggest spending on what they already passed over once. If you said Feldman or Maholm on 1-2 year deals it would have been fine. They preformed before here and have a track record with Bosio In place. So there would be very little adaptation time to adjust to the park or the "Cubs" way. I'm ok with that to be honest. As an upgrade rolling the dice on Tanaka is fine. Depending on the investment put into it. And IMO his talent would have to be legit ACE stuff to bother. Haren for 10 mil? No thank you. He is not the same guy. If I wanted to gamble they could just resign Baker for less.

They way I would roll next year is drop Rusin and resign Baker. He should be cheap. They would have control over Carlos and Grimm as extra depth to cover injury. Now if they aquire Tanaka then trade out Shark or Arretta for a core LH bat.

CSF77 said:

If you are not signing a better #1 then they have already then it is stupid to suggest spending on what they already passed over once. If you said Feldman or Maholm on 1-2 year deals it would have been fine. They preformed before here and have a track record with Bosio In place. So there would be very little adaptation time to adjust to the park or the "Cubs" way. I'm ok with that to be honest. As an upgrade rolling the dice on Tanaka is fine. Depending on the investment put into it. And IMO his talent would have to be legit ACE stuff to bother. Haren for 10 mil? No thank you. He is not the same guy. If I wanted to gamble they could just resign Baker for less.

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Well I think a lot of this will depend on the market for him. I've thrown $10 mil out there as a conservative estimate. It's entirely possible he gets $5-7 mil/year instead which makes my argument even easier. I mean his standard numbers aren't that much different than Kevin Correia who got a 2 year $10 mil deal last off season. It's difficult to say because it's still early and we don't know how firm the market will be.

That being said, I think the money is really less relevant in the argument. It really should be more about if he's going to be the starter he has been the past 2 years or if his second half split is more in line with the 3-4 WAR player I suggest. My problem with Maholm and Feldman is at best they really aren't better than what Haren has been this year. And if Haren returns to form he is suddenly a player who can yield a major prospect in return rather than just random spare parts that teams no longer favor like Vizcaino Strop and Arrieta were for ATL and BAL recpectively.

CSF77 said:

They way I would roll next year is drop Rusin and resign Baker. He should be cheap. They would have control over Carlos and Grimm as extra depth to cover injury. Now if they aquire Tanaka then trade out Shark or Arretta for a core LH bat.

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What would you consider to be a core LG bat for either of those two?

brett05 said:

What would you consider to be a core LG bat for either of those two?

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You want a Left Guard to replace a couple of pitchers?

brett05 said:

What would you consider to be a core LG bat for either of those two?

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Carlos Gonzalez. And it'll be more players on course.