Tyrus Thomas to extend or not to extend

dougthonus

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Here's the deal, Tyrus has played great lately, and he's eligible for an early extension this summer.

How much would you give Tyrus this summer in an extension offer. He's eligible for a five year extension, but no doubt the Bulls and Tyrus will disagree on what he's earned so far.

Pros:
If we come to terms, we'll lock up Tyrus on a deal that looks good for us for the long term assuming Tyrus continues to develop. We're not going to overpay to lock him up right now.

I like Tyrus, so I'll be happy to have him here long term.

Cons:
If we lock him up, Tyrus will become a poison pill player which will make it extremely difficult to move him in a trade this season, Tyrus would likely be involved with a trade for Bosh/Amare if we made one, so it could really lower those odds.

Tyrus is one of those guys I wonder about if he'll still work once he gets paid. He's been harder to get into the gym than a lot of our other players so far for the team.

I've heard he's got a little bit of Ron Artest in him personality wise, IE, he's a little crazy, and long term I'm not sure if you want those types around unless they become stars. You don't want your role players to have weird attitude issues.

What do you think? Personally, I'm betting we don't even engage in serious negotiation because we'll want to have the option of trading him for a star, and the only way something gets done is if Tyrus gives us a really great deal on an extension (maybe 7 million a year or so).
 

collisrost

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I hear what you're saying with regards to the poison pill. But I'm really hoping we don't wait until the trade deadline to make a trade for a guy like Bosh. We should try to get something done this offseason, before any of our potential assets like our draft picks have a chance to lower their trade value by sucking or being injured and before Tyrus becomes a difficult guy to move.

I guess the downside to trying to make an offseason trade is that Deng won't have a chance to play up to his contract and be inculded in any potential deal. I suppose it's also theoretically possible that Tyrus breaks out next season and proves to be close to as good a star as any guy we'd trade for, but I'm not holding my breath on either one of those scenarios.

I just see so much more risk and so much more uncertainty in waiting for the trade deadline before trying to make such a deal. I just hope the guy we want is made available for us to bid on this summer.
 

ryguy24

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We'd still wait until after the draft to start discussions right? If we haven't made a move by then, then I see no harm in trying to extend him to a team friendly deal since there's a good chance he might be worth more next offseason (IMO). If we really have to wait until the deadline to acquire a Bosh or Amare, then i'd be tempted to say F it and just wait until 2010 offseason in FA to get them. If ew're trading for them, then we know they are open to signing long term with us. In that case, it might be best to just wait it out and not give up anyone.
 

dougthonus

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collisrost wrote:
I hear what you're saying with regards to the poison pill. But I'm really hoping we don't wait until the trade deadline to make a trade for a guy like Bosh. We should try to get something done this offseason, before any of our potential assets like our draft picks have a chance to lower their trade value by sucking or being injured and before Tyrus becomes a difficult guy to move.

If we're trading for a guy like Bosh or Amare, the timetable will really be up to the team trading them and not up to us. We'll have to strike when they want to strike. If they want to go at it another year, then we'll have to wait. If they want to trade in the summer then we'll have to trade them.

We have no real control over when we can trade for a superstar, the team with the star always dictates terms.

I just see so much more risk and so much more uncertainty in waiting for the trade deadline before trying to make such a deal. I just hope the guy we want is made available for us to bid on this summer.

I agree that we should try to make one in the summer. I hope someone is available. I think Tyrus Thomas may have done enough at the end of this year to really raise his value in a play for Bosh/Amare. He's been good enough that you could at least start thinking "Tyrus still has a lot of upside and doesn't have the injury history of either Bosh or Amare... "
 

Morten Jensen

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Even if Tyrus has some mean streak in him like Artest, I still take that and go with it. He hasn't done anything remotely similar to Artest yet, and frankly, I don't think he will. If Tyrus is locked up long-term, I'll be fine with it. But not if the cost of that is not acquiring Chris Bosh. Which is basically what my point boils down to.

We're in a sticky situation. Tyrus is really turning the corner this year, and he's looking like he gets it. But the attraction of a Rose/Bosh combo is too great to ignore. So here's my line of thinking;

1. We push hard for Bosh, but keep in contract talks with Tyrus. If Bosh is not landed, we try to establish common ground with Tyrus on a deal that averages $7M and flat lines throughout.

2. If Tyrus doesn't bite, we let him hit restrcited free agency and in the meantime try for Bosh again. If Bosh is permanently a goner for us, we look at what Tyrus is doign for us and match whatever reasonable offer he receives.

All in all, I won't be against an extension. But I will have to know for sure if Bosh is coming or not.
 

collisrost

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I think if we look at the bulls' history it's more likely that we don't extend Tyrus this summer. The reason is because you can see how the Bulls handled all the previous siutations where they could extend their players -- Kirk, Noc, Deng and Gordon. It seems clear that they will extend the "say the right thing" team guy and this comes down to Reinsdorf's apparent over-emphasis on loyalty over talent. And the Bulls try to lowball the guys with talent who seem to have an attitude.

I think if Pax had his own way he'd have extended Gordon last year and he'd love to extend Tyrus at a reasonable price this offseason. but realistically it's almost inevitable that Tyrus will dangle like Gordon did. My guess is that Reinsdorf likes Noah ove3r tyrus just beacuse Noah seems to know all the right things to say and Tyrus always seems to have an attitude.
 

Fred

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Did anybody catch Bickerstaff yesterday attempting to grab Thomas in a timeout yesterday because he was sleeping on a pick and roll, that led to an open jumper in the first? The guy can block shots, but here we are in year 3, and he consistently screws up defesively on htat common play. He also was pathetic in the first on Foster, who managed to get 2 key, easy offensive rebounds that led to Pacer baskets. I tried to videotape these 2 plays, and I'll attempt to post them later (I apologize in advance for the poor quality). He gets the big blocks that attract attention, but he makes far more mistakes that hurt the team, with poor shot selection and bad fundamental defense. I wouldn't extend him. I'd concentrate on upgrading the power forward position, and letting him waste his athletic ability somewhere else.
 

Ralphb07

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To extend him this summer I would only offer him a 4year 30-32mil offer. I wouldn't give him any more than that
 

collisrost

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Fred wrote:
Did anybody catch Bickerstaff yesterday attempting to grab Thomas in a timeout yesterday because he was sleeping on a pick and roll, that led to an open jumper in the first? The guy can block shots, but here we are in year 3, and he consistently screws up defesively on htat common play. He also was pathetic in the first on Foster, who managed to get 2 key, easy offensive rebounds that led to Pacer baskets. I tried to videotape these 2 plays, and I'll attempt to post them later (I apologize in advance for the poor quality). He gets the big blocks that attract attention, but he makes far more mistakes that hurt the team, with poor shot selection and bad fundamental defense. I wouldn't extend him. I'd concentrate on upgrading the power forward position, and letting him waste his athletic ability somewhere else.

I hear you and largely agree that Tyrus is often overrated by his fans because he makes spectacular plays rather than fundamentally sound ones. But I think the Bulls know this and aren't going to offer him a particularly big extension.

Rather than thinking in terms of "The guy sucks we should let him go," I'd rather think about trying to get him at a bargain price. The current economic climate makes this a great time to extend free agents, you can probably lowball them knowing full well they might take the certainty of a long term contract, even at or below market value, over the economic uncertainty of "wait and see." So you just might be able to get tyrus for relatively cheap. If you can't do a blockbuster trade this summer I think you have to at least consider extending him if the price is right.
 

Gene

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Unless we turn Tyrus into Amare or Bosh then I think we eventually need to extend him and make him the PF for the next 5-7 years.
 

Fred

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collisrost wrote:
Rather than thinking in terms of "The guy sucks we should let him go," I'd rather think about trying to get him at a bargain price. The current economic climate makes this a great time to extend free agents, you can probably lowball them knowing full well they might take the certainty of a long term contract, even at or below market value, over the economic uncertainty of "wait and see." So you just might be able to get tyrus for relatively cheap. If you can't do a blockbuster trade this summer I think you have to at least consider extending him if the price is right.[/quote]

I like this idea, as long as we still make an effort to upgrade the position, and Tyrus can deal with coming off the bench. Based on some of his actions in the past (i.e. taking off to protest a lack of playing time), I wonder. But I'd be happy to sign him at next to nothing, go after a legit 4, and have Tyrus as the back-up.
 

Kush77

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I would wait to give Tyrus an extension. I have to see him perform for another year. He's been great lately but I'm still not sure.

I do think the Bulls will get either Bosh or Amare, so hopefully we won't need to extend Thomas. I can't see him being happy as a bench player.
 

Kush77

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Dpauley23 wrote:
He would be traded for either Amare or Bosh

He would be if the Bulls got Amare or Bosh through a trade at next year's deadline. Or the Bulls could just sign one of the two outright in the 2010 offseason.

I hope they can get one of them at the deadline, I'll believe it when I see it.
 

Hawkfanwillie07

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Fred wrote:
Did anybody catch Bickerstaff yesterday attempting to grab Thomas in a timeout yesterday because he was sleeping on a pick and roll, that led to an open jumper in the first? The guy can block shots, but here we are in year 3, and he consistently screws up defesively on htat common play. He also was pathetic in the first on Foster, who managed to get 2 key, easy offensive rebounds that led to Pacer baskets. I tried to videotape these 2 plays, and I'll attempt to post them later (I apologize in advance for the poor quality). He gets the big blocks that attract attention, but he makes far more mistakes that hurt the team, with poor shot selection and bad fundamental defense. I wouldn't extend him. I'd concentrate on upgrading the power forward position, and letting him waste his athletic ability somewhere else.

I saw that too Fred. I rewound it a couple of times and it seemed like Tyrus was going after someone. It looked like Gordon. I think that this was the point in the game where Rush was on his tear in the first quarter. Maybe I am wrong, but it looked to me like Tyrus was pissed at someone. Did anyone else see this?
 

Fred

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Thanks Hawkeyewillie...I thought I was seeing things for a second. You think our idiot announcers could have called it out. . To me, it looked like Bernie was trying to explain to him what he did wrong. Tyrus was clearly out of position on the play. His man set a pick at the 3 point line. For some reason, he was basically standing almost underneath the basket, instead of challenging the shot or trapping on the pick.
 

Newskoolbulls

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No way do we even discuss an extension with Tyrus, he hasn't done enough to even warrant any conversation. This is his third year in the league and he is just starting to play consistently. We need to see him play well in playoffs and watch what he does next season if he is not shipped out for a Bosh type player.
 

collisrost

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Newskoolbulls wrote:
No way do we even discuss an extension with Tyrus, he hasn't done enough to even warrant any conversation. This is his third year in the league and he is just starting to play consistently. We need to see him play well in playoffs and watch what he does next season if he is not shipped out for a Bosh type player.

I agree except i think now moght be the time we can extend him cheap. The economic situation makes for great leverage in negotiating with him. And if he proved himself next year we'd have to shell out a lot of money in a hopefully better econimic climate. It's a risk to sign him this year I agree, but it's way more risk to wait.
 

Newskoolbulls

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How much is he truly worth? if we can get him to agree to a 3 year 12-15 million deal I would do it.
 

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