Rose's Historic Season

[DASMACKDOWN]

To answer Doug's question about Rose's season and his averages.

Rookies avg 16+pts and 6+asts and 3.5+rebs in NBA History.

Oscar Robertson
Allen Iverson
Damon Stoudamire
Steve Francis
Magic Johnson
Chris Paul
Anfernee Hardaway

and

Derrick Rose

All of them were ROY besides Hardaway who was beaten by a monster named Chris Webber.

He is also the youngest of the group as a rookie.

[HeavyC]

Let's just hope he trends a little closer to Magic and CP3 then Steve Francis and Damon Stoudamire over the course of his career.

He's really put the numbers together pretty quietly which is encouraging. I think as he gains some more confidence and gains some more respect around the league, his ceiling is going to be very, very high.

[TheStig]

The impressive part is that only Penny and Magic made the playoffs their first year and both had HOF centers in Shaq and Kareem. I think that speaks volumes to Rose, his abilities and impact on our team despite the efficiency numbers. If he can work on his D, drawing contact and being more consistent throughout the game, Rose will be one of the leagues best in no time. Now we just gotta work on getting him a above average big man and lighting a fire under Deng.

[dougthonus]

The playoff thing is often kind of a hard thing to state because it depends a lot on what record was required to reach the playoffs and the caliber of team existing prior to drafting the player.

Rose landed on a pretty good team in a weak conference, so it's a lot different than some of those guys who landed on awful teams.

As a side note, Damon Stoudemire is interesting, because if you look at his rookie year, you'd think he was going to be a superstud in the future. However, he never really improved on it and by year 3 was declining rapidly.

Francis was a heck of a player before his knees slowed him down, he was never a superstar, but he was a legit all-star talent. A healthy francis without the horrible attitude would have had a tremendous career, and Rose definitely doesn't have Francis' attitude.

The rest of the guys are just great players all together. It's a pretty elite group to be a part of.

[TheStig]

dougthonus wrote:

The playoff thing is often kind of a hard thing to state because it depends a lot on what record was required to reach the playoffs and the caliber of team existing prior to drafting the player.

Rose landed on a pretty good team in a weak conference, so it's a lot different than some of those guys who landed on awful teams.

As a side note, Damon Stoudemire is interesting, because if you look at his rookie year, you'd think he was going to be a superstud in the future. However, he never really improved on it and by year 3 was declining rapidly.

Francis was a heck of a player before his knees slowed him down, he was never a superstar, but he was a legit all-star talent. A healthy francis without the horrible attitude would have had a tremendous career, and Rose definitely doesn't have Francis' attitude.

The rest of the guys are just great players all together. It's a pretty elite group to be a part of.

It is and it isn't. Great players are almost always are in the playoffs. MJ never missed the playoffs till his time in Washington, Shaq, Lebron and Paul only missed their rookie year (till this year for shaq) Anthony and Magic have always been in the playoffs. The two go hand and hand, even KG made the playoffs with those horrible teams. I think it means a little more than you give it credit for. It really seems to seperate the greats and the normal allstars. I am not saying that Rose is an all time great or will be one, it is just a good lineage and I can understand your point that Rose got on a good team in a weak conference but we weren't going to the playoffs without him.

[cool007]

It speaks volume especially Rose had to face a team full of underachievers from the previous year and then don't forget the injuries (people forget how many players missed games this year from Hinrich to hughes, Deng, Gooden, etc) and they were all important pieces since the player playing instead of them weren't all that great (Thabo/Gray/Hunter etc).

Then we had so many lineup changes and nothing set in stone, then the trade, and ofcourse a ROOKIE COACH.

When you combine all that with Rose being a Rookie PG, and we are making the playoffs is HUGE HUGE thing.

IMO, Rose and Gordon gets my Co-MVP vote for Bulls this year. They have been carrying the team since the beginning of the season and making the playoffs - the credit should go to both of them mainly.

Yeah, Salmons/Miller was a nice trade and Tyrus/Noah picking it up really helped as well but Rose/Gordon are my MVP for Bulls.

Rose without having a stud inside player, making playoffs is BIG TIME thing and we should not underrate/underestimate that.

[dougthonus]

It is and it isn't. Great players are almost always are in the playoffs. MJ never missed the playoffs till his time in Washington, Shaq, Lebron and Paul only missed their rookie year (till this year for shaq) Anthony and Magic have always been in the playoffs. The two go hand and hand, even KG made the playoffs with those horrible teams. I think it means a little more than you give it credit for. It really seems to seperate the greats and the normal allstars. I am not saying that Rose is an all time great or will be one, it is just a good lineage and I can understand your point that Rose got on a good team in a weak conference but we weren't going to the playoffs without him.

Well it's sort of a moot point because Rose is going to make the playoffs, however, if the Bulls were in the west and missed the playoffs would Rose be worse somehow?

If LeBron was in the west then the Cavs would only have made the playoffs in 3 seasons (counting this year) out of his six in the league. I don't think less of LeBron though.

Situation does make a big difference as does the talent around you.

Garnett missed the playoffs many times in his career and then went on to lead Boston to a title.

Playoffs aer definitely meaningful, but I just don't think you can say playoffs yes / no as any kind of indication without considering conference and teammates.

[TheStig]

dougthonus wrote:

It is and it isn't. Great players are almost always are in the playoffs. MJ never missed the playoffs till his time in Washington, Shaq, Lebron and Paul only missed their rookie year (till this year for shaq) Anthony and Magic have always been in the playoffs. The two go hand and hand, even KG made the playoffs with those horrible teams. I think it means a little more than you give it credit for. It really seems to seperate the greats and the normal allstars. I am not saying that Rose is an all time great or will be one, it is just a good lineage and I can understand your point that Rose got on a good team in a weak conference but we weren't going to the playoffs without him.

Well it's sort of a moot point because Rose is going to make the playoffs, however, if the Bulls were in the west and missed the playoffs would Rose be worse somehow?

If LeBron was in the west then the Cavs would only have made the playoffs in 3 seasons (counting this year) out of his six in the league. I don't think less of LeBron though.

Situation does make a big difference as does the talent around you.

Garnett missed the playoffs many times in his career and then went on to lead Boston to a title.

Playoffs aer definitely meaningful, but I just don't think you can say playoffs yes / no as any kind of indication without considering conference and teammates.

I don't really think its a mute point. While it is somewhat situational, the great players still make the playoffs. If Lebron went to the next West team (Denver) he would have easily had the same impact as Melo and made the playoffs every year too. You can't just transfer teams between conferences because you don't know what would happen in the previous drafts and rebuilding projects. I just think that it seperates the true greats from the all stars. Would Magic have one of the greatest legacy if he didn't play center in the finals and hit the winning jump hook as a rookie? What about Tim Duncan if he wasn't a champion in his first year? What about MJ dropping big 63 points on the c's? It isn't just skill, but a bit of luck too but you can't deny that the all time greats build their legacy by showing up in the playoffs every year.

[DASMACKDOWN]

The only person there who basically was kind of fluke-ish was Damon Stoudamire. I was never a huge fan of his even though his stats were good from a scoring/ast thing.

Stoudamire was very small (5'10) if that but he played a TON of minutes.40.5 mins per for his first 3 years. He wasnt exactly like the prototypical lightning fast small pgs either. He was probably slower than TJ Ford or Nate Robinson but he was crafty.

Rose compared to all the other players is just so different. He really is like a Lebron of pgs in terms of what he is physically or will be physically.

Rose in 2 years will be an absolute beast.

[JustinC5]

I'll qualify my statement by saying that I can really only watch games on TNT/ESPN/WGN America and saying that I think Rose is an incredible talent.

However, I think that he often suffers from Eddy Curry syndrome in that you look at the box score and he has respectable numbers, but the numbers are from generally one spurt and then the rest of the game is pretty lackluster (albeit Eddy's came in the 1st qtr and Rose's generally come in the 3rd or 4th from what I can tell).

He certainly isn't at the level of a Kobe or a Lebron where they can sleep walk through the first quarter allowing others to get involved first.

I think next season, I'd like to see a more consistent level of play from Rose. I'd also like to see how the team in general responds to expectations next season. This season, there were none at all. So when teams actually go into the season game planning for Rose, I'd like to see how he responds.