Jeff Samardzija and Jason Hammel traded to Oakland Athletics for Addison Russell plus

SilenceS

SilenceS

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brett05 said:
I don't want to speak for 2323, but wouldn't you say the SS position in baseball and in the NL is weak?
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I take our top three in the NL over your top 3 in the AL any day.
 
SilenceS

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nwfisch said:
I don't hate Castro...just pointing out that 2 of the 3 appearances are because a Cub had to go...not necessarily because Castro was a legit all-star.

This year he is turning the corner.
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No, his first all star game was his 200 hit season which would be the only one you can say he was chosen because he was the sole Cub.

His second one he was on the team with LaHair. He wasnt chosen because there needed to be a Cub.

His third one same thing.
 

brett05

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I believe castro may have been a req because of Shark
 

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brett05 said:
I don't want to speak for 2323, but wouldn't you say the SS position in baseball and in the NL is weak?
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Hitting in MLB right now is weak. Thus I conclude there should be no All-Stars except for pitchers. ;)
 
chibears55

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brett05 said:
I don't want to speak for 2323, but wouldn't you say the SS position in baseball and in the NL is weak?
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weak or not the kid still had to put up deserving first half numbers to be considered and actually go over at least 14 other SS...

wow I knew there was hatred for this kid but seriously to say he is not an AS caliber player is just being stupid
 

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2323 said:
I think you're over esteeming Castro. I wouldn't give up Syndergaard if I'm the Mets. Castro isn't that kind of a player. The problem with Castro that many here routinely fail to see is that SS is a position where defense is important and probably more important than offense. It's not really about simply being "the best hitter" at SS. He hits for average but his OBP isn't that great typically. The best position to maximize Castro is 2B. He doesn't have enough power to play a corner position and he's not suited to play CF. But there are a lot of offensively challenged teams who would probably give up something good for him. The question becomes when and for what.
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If Castro is worth -10 runs with his glove, but worth 30 runs with his bat, is it any different than being worth 10 runs with the glove and 10 runs with the bat?

Castro doesn't have the best glove, but he does have one of the best bats. It all evens out, that's the point of WAR.

brett05 said:
Castro < Shark I do not see the return being greater.
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An inconsistent, largely unproven pitcher who has less than 2 years of control and is wanting ~100 Mil is more valuable than a cost-controlled, slugging SS who is under team control for 6 more years? I'd love to hear your logic on that one.

Parade_Rain said:
WAR is somewhat subjective on the D side of things. However, that said, where you have things correct is WAR in comparison to the other SS. I think most teams would be thrilled with 3+ WAR SS. Also, while a defensive SS with no bat is OK, I'd rather have a stick in the lineup. You have to score runs to win ball games. After watching Shark pitch a bunch of gems the first half of the season with very little to show for it, that should be obvious. Apparently, it isn't to some.
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I don't think it matters how you get to that 3 WAR. Any combination, it's still a 3 WAR SS.

2323 said:
Its very subjective. Fielding is such a small component also, which presents a flaw in itself. For example, let's say that you put Nelson Cruz at SS in real life. Sure his defense will be bad. Awful probably. But the defensive component of WAR is so overshadowed by offensive production, it's conceivable that the offense reflected in WAR will easily outweigh the poor defensive rating. And this isn't even addressing the uniform positional adjustments.
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Fielding is a small component? How? It's weighted just as equal. WAR is a combination of your bat, baserunning, fielding, position, and league. Nelson Cruz at SS is likely worth -20 to -30 runs with his defense, it's possible that he could out hit that, but it's not like he'd be a 3 WAR SS.

Are you saying position adjustments shouldn't be made? If so, is a 1B really as valuable as a SS with the same offensive stats?
2323 said:
A few posts ago it was conceded that neither Rizzo or Castro are likely to be traded. So this discussion has been more about what they should do and less about what they likely will do. And in that same sense, it hasn't really been dependent on Baez or Russell. Even if Baez and Russell are moved to other positions, that doesn't automatically mean Castro should remain the SS, or even on the Cubs. If the Cubs can get a good pitcher for Castro, they should take it and not look back.
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How are they likely to trade Castro or Rizzo?

I still want to hear your logic for why the Cubs should get rid of a 3 WAR SS for pitching. Why trade a Yes for a maybe?
 

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chibears55 said:
weak or not the kid still had to put up deserving first half numbers to be considered and actually go over at least 14 other SS...

wow I knew there was hatred for this kid but seriously to say he is not an AS caliber player is just being stupid
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I said no hatred, he's just there because of a need, he's what like the fifth best SS in the NL?
 

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SilenceS said:
I take our top three in the NL over your top 3 in the AL any day.
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I took a quick look and I would agree that the NL is better than the AL at SS. But overall I would say the SS are pretty awful in the past 30 or so years.
 

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nwfisch said:
I don't hate Castro...just pointing out that 2 of the 3 appearances are because a Cub had to go...not necessarily because Castro was a legit all-star.

This year he is turning the corner.
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His 1st half stats from this year and 2011 are nearly identical. OPS of .766 vs. .763 and wOBA of .335 vs. .332.

To say that this year he is all of a sudden so much better is just wrong. He's done this before.

In 2011 Tulo and Reyes were the only SSs in the NL who had higher wOBA. This year Tulo, HanRam, and Peralta.

I don't think he really deserved to be an All-Star in 2012, but 2011, it's a no-brainer.



As for what has Castro proven? He's proven to be a reliable, durable, SS. Only Andrus has had more PAs than him since 2010. Since 2010, of SSs with at least 2000 PAs, Castro is in the top 10 in AVG, OBP, SLG, wOBA, wRC+, HR, LD%, 3B, and is #1 in 2B. He's proven a whole hell of a lot.
 
SilenceS

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I would consider him top 3 with about 4 guys who rotate in and out of spots based on how hot they are at the time. Hanley Ramirez is actually worse at defense then Castro. Also, when was the last time Castro made an error. Its been awhile. Lets hope that continues.
 

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SilenceS said:
No, Shark wasnt traded until after they were both on the team. Stop looking for things that are not there.
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That is absolutely unknown. the rosters came out the day after the trade, no?
 

brett05

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SilenceS said:
I would consider him top 3 with about 4 guys who rotate in and out of spots based on how hot they are at the time. Hanley Ramirez is actually worse at defense then Castro. Also, when was the last time Castro made an error. Its been awhile. Lets hope that continues.
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He is worse, you are right. And he's better at hitting more than the difference in D thus ahead of him. Try objectivity on Castro. It's nice.
 
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