Clearing some salary for Gordon

PatrickShart

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I'll put it this way.....



Years of pre-planning and drafting have gotten us to where we are now. We could get rid of it all for a washed-up 36 yr old player where the storyline would be "Cup or else".



As much as I love that story, I don't want to screw with our system.... I value it highly, especially since I have seen it grow via our Prospects Camps over the years.



But Iginla is still a name that people do recognize. I'd be a fool not to think he wouldn't improve our team. He brings an intangible of hunger and possibly motivating the team further to winning it all, and "Winning it for Jarome"... It worked for Colorado with Ray Bourque and in Tampa with Andreychuk, did it not?



I would consider Iginla for an appropriate price.... a prospect in Rockford or below that isn't Teravainen, Hayes, or Pirri (they're off-limits in my eyes as is anyone else worth of value on our roster), our first rounder coming up and a conditional 3rd (pending if the goals attained are matched). Its appropriate for Iginla considering what trades have been done recently.



That said, however, where would he go? That's where if I am Stan,unless he wants Sharp (heaven forbid) at Center, I wouldn't consider this deal whatsoever. We have enough wingers as it is and not enough centers. If anything, I'd focus on looking for a 6th D-man (Brookbank isn't cutting it for me) or a Center at this point.



Iginla hasn't done anything for Calgary on the ice to validate his worth over the years (Can't really blame him considering the team he's on), and with Calgary making him "the face of the franchise" doesn't help his worth any....



He's a skilled rental on the end of his career
and Feaster should treat him as such instead of trying to validate a trade to save his job.



I have no problen trading Pirri or either Hayes. Pirri, IMO, is behind McNeil, Daneault, and probably even Kevin Hayes - as well as Shaw and Kruger....in the "young center" prospects



Not sure how Iginla hasn't done anything to validate his worth - topped 50g twice, 40 twice, 30 - 7 times....1095pts in 1218gms with never having a top center to play with. Lost in the cup finals.



I still don't get the "last legs" thing either. If Selanne can play 7yrs older than him...why can't Jerome? He's missed a grand total of 42gms in 16yrs (13 of them in the last 8)



While Sharp is labeled this teams "sniper"...compare their last 7yrs..(when Sharp had his first 20g season) -

Sharp - 475gms - 179g - 186a - 365pts (.38gpg - .39apg - .77ppg) - 1,447 sog - .124%

Iginla - 510gms - 240g - 285a - 525pts (.47gpg - .56apg - 1.03pg) - 1,786 sog - .134%



Those numbers are as good/better than any current Hawk.



His "down years" in the last 10 are bolded -

01-02 - 52g/96pts

02-03 - 35g/67pts in 75gms

03-04 - 41g/73pts

05-06 - 35g/67pts

06-07 - 39g/94pts....in only 70gms

07-08 - 50g/98pts

08-09 - 35g/89pts

09-10 - 32g/69pts - would've been tied for 2nd on the Hawks...1st in goals

10-11 - 43g/86pts

11-12 - 32g/67pts - would've been 3rd on the Hawks in scoring...2nd in goals



And he's never played with any ONE player as talented as Kane, Hossa or Toews - let alone all 3 of them. I don't see where his production is slipping. He creates time and space with no talent around him. Put him on the LW with Kane...and he may hit 40g in his sleep. If they can get him and extend him...he'd be an incredible fit. Especially as Hossa/Sharp seem to miss their 10gms a year...
 

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Not opposed to Igilna, as long as Stan does a good job working out the details. Don't see us getting Igilna without giving up a significant player/prospect though.
 

MassHavoc

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This is a no brainer, trades some prospects for 07-08 Iginla.
 

bookjones

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This isn't about production or whether Iggy still produces at all---no one's made the claim that he's completely ineffectual even at 35. He's a star NHLer so he produces for his team. I still don't like what I have seen of his overall game from watching a fair amount of CGY games the past 4 or so years. Eh, he's CGY star and he likes to get the puck and as their franchise star he gets the puck. That's all CGY has done for the past decade is try to trade for and sign at least 2Cs for him to play with and get him the puck since they haven't been able to draft and develop a 1C. They've traded for guys who came off good seasons, they've brought back guys he expressly requested, they've gotten guys the fans demanded because they were sure they would finally, finally help. Nothing has worked except in spurts (they never should have let Cammaleri go his first time around in CGY btw, heh). As a franchise future HOFer he has made no one's game better and the onus is on he talented stars IMO. On that team he's their everything so big whoop that he's put up some higher scoring stats then Hawks stars. The Hawks have had a loaded core and by common sense necessity there's going to be more distribution of everything. Additionally, no one's ever doubted Iginla's commitment to fitness and conditioning---he's always been beastly at bringing that. And that will be why if he wants to play until 40 he certainly can but I'd suggest he's the type that's gonna look increasingly long in the tooth on the ice in terms of skill. That doesn't mean he's not fit but just because he's fit doesn't mean skill isn't depreciating. His conditioning for his age has nothing to do with the fact that his game has seemingly depreciated at time when we expect it of 30-something veteran forwards. It's standard, it's not his "fault". Selanne has never been typical and still puts up the razzle-dazzle in his 40's which is why everyone is astounded by him. He's a goddamn freak of hockey nature. The comparable to Iginla in terms of age and winger position is clearly Hossa. It's not even worth my time comparing their current games in relation to what I feel this team needs to succeed.





Iginla is an offense-only player. This team doesn't need more scoring via a luxury star 3rd RW. Scoring goals IS NOT AN ISSUE. They are 2nd in the league in scoring and have been much of the season. They need to better use assets which they've acquired and/or developed to shore up actual deficiencies on the roster. Last night, yet another perfect example that if this team does not wholly commit to a team D game from all corps they will fail. Lather, rinse, repeat the meme from last year. I see no point in allocating resources to a player who doesn't bring the defensive responsibility and puck possession skills with him from the get-go.That's just more having to ask other players to do more like not having a 2C who wins FOs which means the forwards have to hustle and set about getting the puck back when at least an actual 2C who's good at FOs might make the puck possession game and philosophy they give lip service too that much easier to implement. I don't care about NHL '13 fantasies, I'd like assets to be used to get a 2C who's good on FOs and has a responsible two-way game or an actual LW who also has a responsible two-way game. Despite his continuing to produce in CGY and leading the Lames every year in TOI, the fact of the matter is that when he is on the ice all that time, the advanced stats show the opposition has possession of the puck the majority of the time in recent seasons. I don't care about him and PP fever dreams---Rocky has paid for an all-star core and they should fucking be better on the PP period because that's they and the coaches are paid to do. Rather, rinse, and repeat meme from last season. I don't feel any PP advantage or net presence (if he actually goes back to crashing the net that is since it hasn't been his game for several years now) that Iggy brings in any way outweighs the combined fact that he isn't good at puck possession, isn't a great passer, doesn't have great stick handling skills, doesn't backcheck, and doesn't PK, he can not be trusted in all 3 zones, and I'm not even convinced he keeps up with the Hawks speed at this juncture.
 

bookjones

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everyone who doesnt want igninla is such a racist



IKR? And the WORST is the sad and tragic black on black hate. It's like it's not even the 21st century man.
 

PatrickShart

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And if Iginla came to CHI and played LW, while he wouldn't have a center (if he's on the second line) - he'd have the best passing RW in the game.



I don't get PITT trades prospects and picks for Morrow and Murray - two slugs who there's no way are either better skaters or more productive than Jerome...and Shero is "going for it".



He's always been a high character player. Never heard anyone that's every played with or against him say differently.



While his power game may not be up to your standards, no one in the Hawks top 6 plays the physical game he can. Only Toews is physical enough to play around the net - and he can't play on both lines. The only forward top 9 as physical would be Bickell, so he adds to that.



He can take and win faceoffs as a right handed draw.



Rumor is that both he (wherever he goes) and the Hawks (if they trade for him) would want him to be more than a rental.



On one hand you start by saying - This isn't about production or whether Iggy still produces at all---no one's made the claim that he's completely ineffectual even at 35. .....then you end with - he isn't good at puck possession, isn't a great passer, doesn't have great stick handling skills, doesn't backcheck, and doesn't PK, he can not be trusted in all 3 zones, and I'm not even convinced he keeps up with the Hawks speed at this juncture.





Well, I think maybe he's not good at puck possession - if the current team he's on doesn't play that style. This guy has near 1100pts - but can't skate with the puck, can't pass or stick handle? I'd bet he doesn't get very much room on the ice playing with who...Alex Tanguay??



Hawks have guys that can play the PK. I'm not worried about that. I'd want a guy that can finish hits and shots, handle the physical play, go to the net, create time/space for Kane - he has no one on his line that does that. Whether it's Iginla (who's available) or a 2nd line center (who I'm not sure if any are getting moved).
 

PatrickShart

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And if he came to the Hawks...he'd be one of the best 4 forwards with Toews, Kane and Hossa. While he may not backcheck like Hoss...I know if he gets hit once he's not out 7-10 days.



Hossa takes 1 hit in the playoffs...it may very well knock him out of a series. Then you get Frolictinez as your RW on the first line...or expect Morin/Hayes to fill that role.
 

bookjones

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And if Iginla came to CHI and played LW, while he wouldn't have a center (if he's on the second line) - he'd have the best passing RW in the game.



I don't get PITT trades prospects and picks for Morrow and Murray - two slugs who there's no way are either better skaters or more productive than Jerome...and Shero is "going for it".



He's always been a high character player. Never heard anyone that's every played with or against him say differently.



While his power game may not be up to your standards, no one in the Hawks top 6 plays the physical game he can. Only Toews is physical enough to play around the net - and he can't play on both lines. The only forward top 9 as physical would be Bickell, so he adds to that.



He can take and win faceoffs as a right handed draw.



Rumor is that both he (wherever he goes) and the Hawks (if they trade for him) would want him to be more than a rental.



On one hand you start by saying - This isn't about production or whether Iggy still produces at all---no one's made the claim that he's completely ineffectual even at 35. .....then you end with - he isn't good at puck possession, isn't a great passer, doesn't have great stick handling skills, doesn't backcheck, and doesn't PK, he can not be trusted in all 3 zones, and I'm not even convinced he keeps up with the Hawks speed at this juncture.





Well, I think maybe he's not good at puck possession - if the current team he's on doesn't play that style. This guy has near 1100pts - but can't skate with the puck, can't pass or stick handle? I'd bet he doesn't get very much room on the ice playing with who...Alex Tanguay??



Hawks have guys that can play the PK. I'm not worried about that. I'd want a guy that can finish hits and shots, handle the physical play, go to the net, create time/space for Kane - he has no one on his line that does that. Whether it's Iginla (who's available) or a 2nd line center (who I'm not sure if any are getting moved).



There's no conflict with what I wrote, I stated flat out that Iginla is an offense only player---the things I ding him for and personally don't like about his game are about him being a defensive liability and his skills not being condusive to a puck possession game which is the style of game the Hawks have chosen to play. So no, I have never said that Iggy doesn't produce for CGY. I just don't care that he produces for CGY. Have I not always conceded that during his glory days he was an awesome prototypical power forward---in fact I think I said he put the "power" in power forward. That and his edge back then are what made him an all-star and beloved Flame. What does that have to do with the fact that he doesn't play that game for the most part anymore? He's fashioned himself a sniper and that's his choice but it doesn't play to what his skillset was IMO because no, I don't think he was ever known for having awesome hands or touch or puck skills. He was a power forward pre and post 1st lockout and his game was ideal for the time he was in his prime. He was never about elite skills to my mind---he powered his way to the net to score and scored through sheer force of will and determination and back then it was exciting to watch. he just mowed through people. He's just another star shooting forward for the most part now and I still maintain we don't need a 3rd star RW and to get into all of this off-wing bullshit with a vet who's played RW for the past 15 yrs. Let's just agree to disagree about what he could bring to the team. In some thread somewhere here last week (?) I am pretty sure even I conceded that if he literally costs nothing in terms of meaningful pieces then I still wouldn't like it or think it's the right asset management course but whatever in the end. The Hawks and fans would get what they want. I still believe the Hawks have more leverage bundling combos of assets for something to address a need more long term rather than using them on a rental. In any event, I still believe Feaster is after a blue chipper though



What does Shero have to do with this? As I said last night this week he hasn't given up anything except a 2nd, a 3rd, and a D prospect who was last on their very deep D prospects pool, and he picked up a 5th and some low-level grit he wanted to combat the Bs. I mean I personally may have gone after different junk than Murray but Murray has cost him nothing but a 2nd. Before June 30th he could get back picks as some GMs (like Stan) like to do (and why I always preface that "as of now" the Hawks don't have a 2013 2nd or 3rd" when I mention it, heh) and could still finally address their anemic forwards prospect pool at the Draft. How is Shero losing here when as I type he has $18.5 mil in cap space to spend on good wingers and/or shoring up the current blue line and he has $25 mil to work with at the trade deadline because of the moves he's made? This is impressive considering where the Pens have stood all season and how they've played and doesn't mean that people are fanboy/fangirl fellating him (the only thing I fangurl on in PIT is Geno and Bylsma!). I see nothing wrong with giving that props. He's got a vision of the team he's after and a plan that he's put into action, we'll all see how it turns out.
 

bookjones

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bookjones

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from SportsNet







NHL Trade Rumours: Feaster must drop price



http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-trade-rumours-pens-eyeing-iginla/













LOL---Oh, Feaster. Still trying to be a ball-buster. It took the Bolts a long time to get the stench of his meaty paws post-Cup reign out of their building.



1180knn.png
 

R K

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This is a no brainer, trades some prospects for 07-08 Iginla.



10-11 he almost had 90pts. On a terrible team. 11-12 almost 70 on an even worse team.



Doesn't matter Hawks aren't going to pay the price for him, the Bruins are to match the Pens.
 

the canadian dream

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hard to see the guy in another teams jersey. I try to envision him with the Bruins and it looks odd to me. I think there is one other part of iginla that peole miss. he likes familiar faces around him. I bet he not only will waive his ntc to go to a contender but also a team with players he knows. I dont see that with Boston. I do see it with the Pens seeing he and crosby have a close relationship. im not really buying into the boston rumors it feels like fodder from "hockey insiders" who more often than not are talking out their asses to get twitter hits these days.
 

bookjones

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I SWEAR TO FUCKING GOD if the latest chatter is true that Stan has included Teravainen in an offer to CGY I will hunt him down personally, saw off his dick and then beat him upside his head with it.
 

bookjones

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That is the Hawks SOLE projected Top 6 upside blue-chip. OMG, even rumor mongering about it. . .I. AM. LIVID. There is NO ONE and NOTHING on the Lames worth Teravainen. NO ONE.
 

Ton

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That is the Hawks SOLE projected Top 6 upside blue-chip. OMG, even rumor mongering about it. . .I. AM. LIVID. There is NO ONE and NOTHING on the Lames worth Teravainen. NO ONE.



I can't think of anyone either. No chance. Although I'd have to say I don't think hes the only top-six capable guy in our system.
 

bookjones

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I can't think of anyone either. No chance. Although I'd have to say I don't think hes the only top-six capable guy in our system.



Didn't say I think he's the only one who could wind up playing Top 6 but in terms of all around hockey concensus, Teravainen is the only one currently (I no longer include Saad) who's ONLY ever been projected at Top 6.





Sidenote: I don't know if you're good about PMs these days so I'll ask here---do you want me to send you my HS info. so that you can watch the upcoming playoffs push games for Rockford? Or any of their archived games or any of the CHL prospects archived or live games for that matter (though the QMJHL ones you have to watch the live streams or bust, no archives made) Not sure if you're still not working but you always seem interested in the Hogs games.
 

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