Is Chauncy Billups a Hall of Famer?

mlewinth

mlewinth

New member
Joined:
Mar 31, 2009
Posts:
680
Liked Posts:
6
Ok, so originally I thought, no way, but check out these stats:

- Lead a team to a championship
- Lead a team to 2 NBA Finals
- Best player on a team that went to 6 Eastern Conference finals
- NBA Finals MVP
- Second best player in Pistons history
- Was the second best PG in the NBA for maybe a 3 year period before Williams/Paul took over, was a top 3 player in MVP votes in 05-06

I would not of thought it before, but look at how the Pistons are without him and how much better the Nuggets are with him. Hell, watch Billips in this Nuggests/Hornets series. He has made the Nuggets a much, much better team.

Chauncy Billups gets my vote for the hall!
 

Riker

New member
Joined:
Apr 25, 2009
Posts:
144
Liked Posts:
0
Location:
Croatia
Of course he is, he's the epiphany of basketball IQ

If he doesn't get in the HOF it will be as disgraceful as blackballing Dominique
 
dougthonus

dougthonus

New member
Joined:
Mar 13, 2009
Posts:
2,665
Liked Posts:
9
mlewinth wrote:
Ok, so originally I thought, no way, but check out these stats:

- Lead a team to a championship
- Lead a team to 2 NBA Finals
- Best player on a team that went to 6 Eastern Conference finals
- NBA Finals MVP
- Second best player in Pistons history
- Was the second best PG in the NBA for maybe a 3 year period before Williams/Paul took over, was a top 3 player in MVP votes in 05-06

I would not of thought it before, but look at how the Pistons are without him and how much better the Nuggets are with him. Hell, watch Billips in this Nuggests/Hornets series. He has made the Nuggets a much, much better team.

Chauncy Billups gets my vote for the hall!
Click to expand...

By the standards of NBA players in there, I think he's a HOVG (hall of very gooder), but he's the kind of guy I think has a place. I think you really reach on your points though.

He maybe lead a pistons team to a championship and 2 NBA finals, or you could say one of three other guys was just as important. I think it's always been universally believed that, at best, he's first among equals in that regard.

Same goes with the second best Piston thing. Yeah, you could make a case for him at #2, as you could for a bunch of other guys, at least two of which were on the same team that won that title with him. Personally, I think Isiah and prime Grant Hill were definitely better, of course Hill didn't end up being that great for the Pistons because he left, but as a player he was superior while there.

I don't think there's ever a point where he would have been considered the #2 PG either, he was clearly behind Kidd for basically his whole career, clearly behind Nash from 2004 on. Clearly behind Williams/Paul now.

However, that all being said, Chauncey is definitely a guy who's had a bigger impact than his numbers would show. He's always been a very efficient scorer and great defender. It's hard not to give him extra credit for the way he's been willing to sacrifice for his teams even if it's left him with pretty mediocre basic career statics (though his advanced stats are pretty good).

I'd vote him in, because I've always felt the HOF was way too hard on NBA players and way too easy on contributors and college coaches.
 

TheStig

New member
Joined:
Apr 5, 2009
Posts:
3,636
Liked Posts:
38
I doubt he gets in, he never really put up good numbers till a about 4 yrs ago and even then they weren't great. I think Nash is a good example of a late bloomer he is going up against but Nash was at least the clear leader and has MVPs to go on his resume. I think he is solid but he won't be HOF, he just doesn't have the numbers and it took him so long to get good.
 
mlewinth

mlewinth

New member
Joined:
Mar 31, 2009
Posts:
680
Liked Posts:
6
dougthonus wrote:
mlewinth wrote:
I think it's always been universally believed that, at best, he's first among equals in that regard.

Same goes with the second best Piston thing. Yeah, you could make a case for him at #2, as you could for a bunch of other guys, at least two of which were on the same team that won that title with him.

I don't think there's ever a point where he would have been considered the #2 PG either, he was clearly behind Kidd for basically his whole career, clearly behind Nash from 2004 on. Clearly behind Williams/Paul now.

However, that all being said, Chauncey is definitely a guy who's had a bigger impact than his numbers would show. He's always been a very efficient scorer and great defender. It's hard not to give him extra credit for the way he's been willing to sacrifice for his teams even if it's left him with pretty mediocre basic career statics (though his advanced stats are pretty good).

I'd vote him in, because I've always felt the HOF was way too hard on NBA players and way too easy on contributors and college coaches.
Click to expand...

I definantly think you are underestimating him in your assesment. After the finals in 2004 (where he dominated as Finals MVP) and especially when Ben left by 06 that was Chauncy's team. There is no one who debated who the best player on that team was, it was knowen, it was Chauncy Billups's team. Chauncy was second in the leauge in MVP votes in 05-06, there was no other Piston up there. Chauncy was that teams leader. Find me a Pistons fan who says Rasheed, Hamilton or Tayshaun were the heart and soul of those Pistons teams...you can't they don't exist.Chauncy wasnt light years beyond everyone else on his team, like say...LeBron, but there was no contest on team MVP for like 5 years straight.

Chauncys stats are not mediocre. At his peak he was getting 6-8 dimes a game, with 16-18 ppg. He has maintaied awesome numbers since 2004-2005.He has been better then Jason Kidd for about 4 years. He is a three time all-star. Mediocre career stats is Steve Kerr...not Chauncy Billups! He lead his teams to 2 finals!

And who the heck can you try to vote as #2 Piston of all time besides Billups. Billups is better then any single player on those Pistons teams of the late 80's whose name is not Isiah Thomas. There is no contest. Maybe you can say Grant Hill was for 5 minutes, but given what Chauncy did in his time in Motown, I bet most Pistons fans have more glorious memories of the Chauncy days then they do the Hill days. I am not going to count any of their stars in the 70's either as none played with the team long enough or experienced any type of success. :eek:hmy:
Click to expand...
 
dougthonus

dougthonus

New member
Joined:
Mar 13, 2009
Posts:
2,665
Liked Posts:
9
I definantly think you are underestimating him in your assesment. After the finals in 2004 (where he dominated as Finals MVP) and especially when Ben left by 06 that was Chauncy's team. There is no one who debated who the best player on that team was, it was knowen, it was Chauncy Billups's team. Chauncy was second in the leauge in MVP votes in 05-06, there was no other Piston up there. Chauncy was that teams leader. Find me a Pistons fan who says Rasheed, Hamilton or Tayshaun were the heart and soul of those Pistons teams...you can't they don't exist.Chauncy wasnt light years beyond everyone else on his team, like say...LeBron, but there was no contest on team MVP for like 5 years straight.
Click to expand...

I've always felt their most important player was Rasheed when they were really dangerous, he was an elite defender, and was an elite offensive player who took a lesser role and sacrificed for the Pistons (and for Portland before that), though you could say the exact same thing of Billups only that Rasheed was a big and Billups was a small. Maybe I overrate Rasheed.

To only average 6 assists with great scorers like Hamilton and Wallace though, I think it's fair to say that Billups is not an elite creation oriented PG, nor is he an elite scorer. He's good at both, but I'm not sure I'd even categorize him as great at either. Defensively he's great, and he's also been great in the clutch.

Chauncys stats are not mediocre. At his peak he was getting 6-8 dimes a game, with 16-18 ppg. He has maintaied awesome numbers since 2004-2005.He has been better then Jason Kidd for about 4 years. He is a three time all-star. Mediocre career stats is Steve Kerr...not Chauncy Billups! He lead his teams to 2 finals!
Click to expand...

You have to consider the discussion. We're talking HOF not who would I pick for my rec league team here. Yes, his stats are great compared to Steve Kerr, but his stats would be among the lowest tier of HOF guys for sure.

17/6 per 36 minutes is his career average, that's just not special at all.
 

??? ??????

New member
Joined:
Apr 2, 2009
Posts:
2,435
Liked Posts:
4
Location:
Columbia, MO
Ben Wallace is the only player from that Pistons team that deserves to be in the hall of fame. Many people really like to make that Pistons team out as five equals, with Billups being the first among equals. In reality, Ben Wallace was the MVP, and Chauncey Billups was the first among equals...of the other four.
 

TheStig

New member
Joined:
Apr 5, 2009
Posts:
3,636
Liked Posts:
38
??? ?????? wrote:
Ben Wallace is the only player from that Pistons team that deserves to be in the hall of fame. Many people really like to make that Pistons team out as five equals, with Billups being the first among equals. In reality, Ben Wallace was the MVP, and Chauncey Billups was the first among equals...of the other four.
Click to expand...

No way is Ben Wallace a hall of famer. He isn't that great of a man defender, sheed always took the bigger and better offensive player. You guys need to reevaluate your criteria for HOF. Look at the last batch of HOF inductees:Michael Jordan, David Robinson, John Stockton. Jerry Sloan got in for his coaching. All of those guys are much better than anyone on the pistons.
 

??? ??????

New member
Joined:
Apr 2, 2009
Posts:
2,435
Liked Posts:
4
Location:
Columbia, MO
TheStig wrote:
??? ?????? wrote:
Ben Wallace is the only player from that Pistons team that deserves to be in the hall of fame. Many people really like to make that Pistons team out as five equals, with Billups being the first among equals. In reality, Ben Wallace was the MVP, and Chauncey Billups was the first among equals...of the other four.
Click to expand...

No way is Ben Wallace a hall of famer. He isn't that great of a man defender, sheed always took the bigger and better offensive player. You guys need to reevaluate your criteria for HOF. Look at the last batch of HOF inductees:Michael Jordan, David Robinson, John Stockton. Jerry Sloan got in for his coaching. All of those guys are much better than anyone on the pistons.
Click to expand...

In 2003-2004 Ben Wallace put up the best D-Rtg in NBA history of any player that played any significant amount of minutes in a season (basically, if you would put the NBA mandated minimums in for minutes/games on that stat). He then followed that up by putting up the best D-Rtg in NBA playoff history in the 2004 playoffs.

His prime rebound and block stats are great, and the box scores don't measure the number of shots he altered, the number of rebounds he tipped out to his teammates, and the number of charges he has taken.

He's a 4 time allstar, a 4 time Defensive Player of the Year, 2 time All NBA Third Team, 3 time all NBA Second Team, All Defensive Second Team once, and 5 time All Defensive First Team.

He led the league in offensive rebounding twice, defensive rebounds once, total rebounds twice, blocks once, rebounds per game twice, blocks per game once, defensive rebounding percentage once, total rebounding percentage once, defensive rating 3 times, and defensive win shares 5 times.

He is first among active players in career Defensive Rating, and #2 in NBA History behind Elmore Smith.

He also won a championship on top of this.

He has now played 5 years in the post rule change era, that favored offensive players.

If Ben Wallace isn't a hall of famer, then I'm not sure exactly what is. He is one of the top defenders in NBA history, if not the best. Him not making the Hall would be crazy, especially after he won the championship.
 

Kush77

New member
Joined:
Mar 15, 2009
Posts:
2,096
Liked Posts:
150
I don't think Billups is a HOFer.

He's a solid player that would make a few all-star games here and there. He's very good player, but I wouldn't vote him in the HOF.
 
dougthonus

dougthonus

New member
Joined:
Mar 13, 2009
Posts:
2,665
Liked Posts:
9
Kush77 wrote:
I don't think Billups is a HOFer.

He's a solid player that would make a few all-star games here and there. He's very good player, but I wouldn't vote him in the HOF.
Click to expand...

Billups HOF rating on basketball-reference is 23% so far, and that rating sysatem (if I'm not mistaken) gives huge credit for being finals MVP. Or in other words, if he wasn't finals MVP he'd have no shot in bloody hell of making the HOF, but because of that he has at least a chance.
 
dougthonus

dougthonus

New member
Joined:
Mar 13, 2009
Posts:
2,665
Liked Posts:
9
BTW, defensive rating is pretty meaningless IMO.

It only looks at points allowed while on the floor if I'm not mistaken, meaning that regardless of how good you are if you have a bad team defense your defensive rating will be poor.

Wallace's great defensive rating was boosted by playing almost all of his minutes with elite defenders at every position, I'd imagine all of the guys on those teams had great defensive ratings.
 

Kush77

New member
Joined:
Mar 15, 2009
Posts:
2,096
Liked Posts:
150
dougthonus wrote:
Kush77 wrote:
I don't think Billups is a HOFer.

He's a solid player that would make a few all-star games here and there. He's very good player, but I wouldn't vote him in the HOF.
Click to expand...

Billups HOF rating on basketball-reference is 23% so far, and that rating sysatem (if I'm not mistaken) gives huge credit for being finals MVP. Or in other words, if he wasn't finals MVP he'd have no shot in bloody hell of making the HOF, but because of that he has at least a chance.
Click to expand...

Are there any Finals MVPs that aren't HOFers? So I guess he does have that in his favor.
 
dougthonus

dougthonus

New member
Joined:
Mar 13, 2009
Posts:
2,665
Liked Posts:
9
Are there any Finals MVPs that aren't HOFers? So I guess he does have that in his favor.
Click to expand...

Dennis Johnson and Jo Jo White are the only two since they started the award to not be elected to the hall.
 

TheStig

New member
Joined:
Apr 5, 2009
Posts:
3,636
Liked Posts:
38
??? ?????? wrote:
TheStig wrote:
??? ?????? wrote:
Ben Wallace is the only player from that Pistons team that deserves to be in the hall of fame. Many people really like to make that Pistons team out as five equals, with Billups being the first among equals. In reality, Ben Wallace was the MVP, and Chauncey Billups was the first among equals...of the other four.
Click to expand...

No way is Ben Wallace a hall of famer. He isn't that great of a man defender, sheed always took the bigger and better offensive player. You guys need to reevaluate your criteria for HOF. Look at the last batch of HOF inductees:Michael Jordan, David Robinson, John Stockton. Jerry Sloan got in for his coaching. All of those guys are much better than anyone on the pistons.
Click to expand...

In 2003-2004 Ben Wallace put up the best D-Rtg in NBA history of any player that played any significant amount of minutes in a season (basically, if you would put the NBA mandated minimums in for minutes/games on that stat). He then followed that up by putting up the best D-Rtg in NBA playoff history in the 2004 playoffs.

His prime rebound and block stats are great, and the box scores don't measure the number of shots he altered, the number of rebounds he tipped out to his teammates, and the number of charges he has taken.

He's a 4 time allstar, a 4 time Defensive Player of the Year, 2 time All NBA Third Team, 3 time all NBA Second Team, All Defensive Second Team once, and 5 time All Defensive First Team.

He led the league in offensive rebounding twice, defensive rebounds once, total rebounds twice, blocks once, rebounds per game twice, blocks per game once, defensive rebounding percentage once, total rebounding percentage once, defensive rating 3 times, and defensive win shares 5 times.

He is first among active players in career Defensive Rating, and #2 in NBA History behind Elmore Smith.

He also won a championship on top of this.

He has now played 5 years in the post rule change era, that favored offensive players.

If Ben Wallace isn't a hall of famer, then I'm not sure exactly what is. He is one of the top defenders in NBA history, if not the best. Him not making the Hall would be crazy, especially after he won the championship.
Click to expand...
Wallace is good but HOF looks at a career as a body of work. Wallace has never averaged double digits in points and outside of his time in Detroit and maybe his first year here hasn't been anything special. 7 good rebounding and defensive seasons are good but you need more longevity to be a HOF player. Wallace also has to be among the worst ft shooting big men of all time and has had tons of coaching issues. He is not a good locker room guy. I'd easily take Bill Russel or Rodman as my defensive player. Wallace's block numbers are nice but he played as a help defender mainly and wasn't a great man defender.
 

Bullsman24

Mr Metta World Peace
Joined:
May 10, 2010
Posts:
1,403
Liked Posts:
51
well would you take dennis rodman for hall of fame? he's got pretty much the same sorta game as dennis.

right now, i'd put him in because of what he's done to the nuggets. and i think he can definitely add more to his resume before he retires, he'll probably have some longevity like nash because of his game.
 

Newskoolbulls

New member
Joined:
Mar 28, 2009
Posts:
2,897
Liked Posts:
6
Location:
Bullspodcasters>Any other bulls board
Yea I would vote him in. He is a classy guy whose career took some weird twist and turns early on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

10,878members
92,992threads
4,371,947posts
588online users

Members online NOW

  • Member
  • Admin
  • Mod
  • Donor
  • HOF
Total: 588 (members: 43, guests: 545)
Top