Jeff Passan Pissin' On The Cubs

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/no--29...n-verge-of-another-woeful-year-165308395.html

This aught to get the Fischs* all fired up.

@JeffPassan said:

When Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer arrived, they could not have envisioned this. The blame on the Cubs' woes goes solely and directly to owner.

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The Cubs' plan always seemed clear to me. Build the farm and keep costs low while Ricketts pays off the debts, and renovates Wrigley. Once that is complete, the young kids should be developed (in theory) and spend ££££££££££££! to add the pieces to get the young core over the top.

I wonder if that opinion makes me a sheep!!!1 :thinking:


*Love you, Fisch. <3

whitesox901 said:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/no--29...n-verge-of-another-woeful-year-165308395.html

This aught to get the Fisch*s all fired up.



The Cubs' plan always seemed clear to me. Build the farm and keep costs low while Ricketts pays off the debts, and renovates Wrigley. Once that is complete, the young kids should be developed (in theory) and spend ££££££££££££! to add the pieces to get the young core over the top.

I wonder if that opinion makes me a sheep!!!1 :thinking:


*Love you, Fisch. <3

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Why are we paying out players in British Pounds instead of United States Dollars?

And just saying, to those who hate Epstein, who do you really blame? Him or Ricketts?

I like to pretend I'm British, its fun!

Its all just part of my humour.

The Chicago Cubs are a mess, and it starts with miserly owners carrying the fifth-lowest payroll in baseball ($78M): http://yhoo.it/1lZ4Wxc



Been saying this since Rickets owned team. He a piece of shit business man that only cares about $ Cubs are now 26th. Yes read that again. 26th in payroll WHILE charging top NL ticket prices. Anyone who tries to support Ricketts should be banned from being a sports fan. Clearly Ricketts dont care about winning and those who support him dont either. Last thing im going to say:


FUCK YOU RICKETTS


** i put this under ownership thread but figured since this thread made i had to post it

whitesox901 said:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/no--29...n-verge-of-another-woeful-year-165308395.html

This aught to get the Fischs* all fired up.



The Cubs' plan always seemed clear to me. Build the farm and keep costs low while Ricketts pays off the debts, and renovates Wrigley. Once that is complete, the young kids should be developed (in theory) and spend ££££££££££££! to add the pieces to get the young core over the top.

I wonder if that opinion makes me a sheep!!!1 :thinking:


*Love you, Fisch. <3

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The 3rd Largest Market, team that has top NL highest ticket prices CAN NOT DO IT THIS WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now if Ricketts owned TBR, KCR, MIL, aka small market teams then yes that would be the way to do it. He bought a BIG MARKET in the Cubs and has screwed Cub fans in the ass

daddies3angels said:

https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/statu...92329984929792



Been saying this since Rickets owned team. He a piece of shit business man that only cares about $ Cubs are now 26th. Yes read that again. 26th in payroll WHILE charging top NL ticket prices. Anyone who tries to support Ricketts should be banned from being a sports fan. Clearly Ricketts dont care about winning and those who support him dont either. Last thing im going to say:


FUCK YOU RICKETTS


** i put this under ownership thread but figured since this thread made i had to post it

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Wanna try a real link if there is anything extra there?

daddies3angels said:

The 3rd Largest Market, team that has top NL highest ticket prices CAN NOT DO IT THIS WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now if Ricketts owned TBR, KCR, MIL, aka small market teams then yes that would be the way to do it. He bought a BIG MARKET in the Cubs and has screwed Cub fans in the ass

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Now I understand why Fisch is mad.

daddies3angels said:

The 3rd Largest Market, team that has top NL highest ticket prices CAN NOT DO IT THIS WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now if Ricketts owned TBR, KCR, MIL, aka small market teams then yes that would be the way to do it. He bought a BIG MARKET in the Cubs and has screwed Cub fans in the ass

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Dude is in debt up to his eyeballs, what do you want? Granted, maybe he shouldn't have bought the team if this was the consequence, but that's part of business, taking risks. Just have to hold out until everything is paid off, I guess.

whitesox901 said:

Dude is in debt up to his eyeballs, what do you want? Granted, maybe he shouldn't have bought the team if this was the consequence, but that's part of business, taking risks. Just have to hold out until everything is paid off, I guess.

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Then yea Dude he SHOULDNT HAVE bought something he couldnt afford. SO again Cub fans getting SCREWED in the ass. Im lucky that im young enough where i can hoepfully see Cubs win. Where my dad is not. He dont have another 10+ yrs for Ricketts to get his shit together and hope Cubs win.

Jntg4 said:

Wanna try a real link if there is anything extra there?



Now I understand why Fisch is mad.

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I fixed link.

most blame goes on ricketts. a lot of us financial guys saw the debt early and saw how they couldnt spend. its now coming to a head.


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daddies3angels said:

Then yea Dude he SHOULDNT HAVE bought something he couldnt afford. SO again Cub fans getting SCREWED in the ass. Im lucky that im young enough where i can hoepfully see Cubs win. Where my dad is not. He dont have another 10+ yrs for Ricketts to get his shit together and hope Cubs win.

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The debt has nothing to do with him being able to afford the team. When he bought the team from Zell they formed what's called a leveraged partnership. I'll spare you the gritty details but it basically allows Zell to take all of his money out tax free after 7 years of the purchase. However, Ricketts can't pay down the debt of the team even if he wants to because that would then cause Zell to pay taxes on his money which breaks their deal. The MLB has strict rules that say you can only have debt of something like 10x income. As such the cubs quite literally HAVE to be massively profitable because they can't yet pay down their debt.

It doesn't matter who bought the team, they would be in the same exact situation as the Ricketts because it's not about their personal wealth it's about the amount of payroll vs debt which is set by the MLB. The only way they could have spent more money is if they bought in more revenue. They have tried to do that via fixing the stadium but that got mired in litigation. The 7 year partnership ends in 2 years. They then can pay down their debt and likely increase payroll.

What irritates me is when you see articles like this yahoo one none of the national media has any clue of why the cubs are in this situation because none of them dig deep enough to find the story of how shady the cubs sale was. They all think it's the same as any other team sale but it wasn't.

beckdawg said:

The debt has nothing to do with him being able to afford the team. When he bought the team from Zell they formed what's called a leveraged partnership. I'll spare you the gritty details but it basically allows Zell to take all of his money out tax free after 7 years of the purchase. However, Ricketts can't pay down the debt of the team even if he wants to because that would then cause Zell to pay taxes on his money which breaks their deal. The MLB has strict rules that say you can only have debt of something like 10x income. As such the cubs quite literally HAVE to be massively profitable because they can't yet pay down their debt.

It doesn't matter who bought the team, they would be in the same exact situation as the Ricketts because it's not about their personal wealth it's about the amount of payroll vs debt which is set by the MLB. The only way they could have spent more money is if they bought in more revenue. They have tried to do that via fixing the stadium but that got mired in litigation. The 7 year partnership ends in 2 years. They then can pay down their debt and likely increase payroll.

What irritates me is when you see articles like this yahoo one none of the national media has any clue of why the cubs are in this situation because none of them dig deep enough to find the story of how shady the cubs sale was. They all think it's the same as any other team sale but it wasn't.

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wrong! another owner could have bought the team without a loan and therefore have no debt.


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DewsSox79 said:

wrong! another owner could have bought the team without a loan and therefore have no debt.


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Zell wouldn't have sold the team another way. The entire point in doing that was to stop him from having to pay taxes. Ricketts didn't "need a loan." In case your not aware, the taxes alone were worth around another $300 mil to Zell.

I would like to see a link to this info.

Not to discredit but out of pure interest.

CSF77 said:

I would like to see a link to this info.

Not to discredit but out of pure interest.

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http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/21/news/companies/zell_tribune_chicago_cubs.fortune/

If you want more info on the other half i posted let me know. I might have to dig it up but this was easy to find.

Edit: Here's some more info on the debt rules

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...hicago--20110602_1_club-debt-cubs-debt-issues

Hence Zell's nonsale sale of the Cubs, which works like this. The Ricketts family, founders of Ameritrade (now TD Ameritrade (AMTD)), will put $150 million of cash into a partnership that will also borrow up to $698 million. Tribune will put the Cubs, the Wrigley Field stadium in which they play, and related assets into the partnership.

Tribune would emerge with $740 million of cash and 5% of the partnership, while the Rickettses would have 95% and operating control. Call me naive, but it sure seems to me that when you start with 100% and full control and end up with 5%, $740 million, and no control, you've sold 95%.

Zell's tax folk, however, will argue that Tribune is getting nontaxable proceeds from a leveraged partnership. They'll also argue that Tribune's guarantee of some of the partnership's borrowings makes it a true partner of the Rickettses. Hello? A debt guarantee from a bankrupt company? What's that worth? Can you spell "nothing"?

By my estimate Tribune would have about a $720 million gain -- the $740 million, less 95% of the $21 million Tribune paid for the Cubs in 1981. At a 40% federal-state combined rate, the gain would generate around $290 million in taxes. Instead, that money will go to Tribune's creditors.




So Ricketts fund 150 mil and borrow 700 mil. and form a 7 year itch.

This is fine for what happened in 2009 but what is the current situation after 4-5 years of ownership? How much debt paid off if any or have they been nest egging it to transfer directly to Zell.

Regardless this whole business stinks.

Ricketts then is the only dumbass who dumb enough to do that type of deal. I think he proven he a dumbass by way Cubs have been in his 4 yrs of owning team. Since he owned team in 2010 team has been over .500 for total of 5 days. 3 of those days were opening day wins. Cubs havent been 2 games over .500 since he owned team. Just pathetic... Some how there fans and bloggers that keep coming to his defense. Its amazing how the worse franchise in any sport gets support like this from fans . Cubs were a joke before Ricketts cause of 106 yrs thing but during that 106 yrs the Cubs have NEVER been this bad.

CSF77 said:

So Ricketts fund 150 mil and borrow 700 mil. and form a 7 year itch.

This is fine for what happened in 2009 but what is the current situation after 4-5 years of ownership? How much debt paid off if any or have they been nest egging it to transfer directly to Zell.

Regardless this whole business stinks.

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From my understanding, they couldn't pay off any of the debt for 7 years(length of the partnership) because that is the federal law for when Zell can take out his money tax free. If they do it a day before that point he pays full taxes. I'd have to dig some for a source on that but that's my understanding of the situation. Had the Ricketts been able to pay down the debt from the start of the purchase, then they would have been able to increase payroll. However, they literally had to operate at a huge profit in order to stay under the 10x limit. I'm not saying they would have spent extravagantly but if my understanding is right then all or at least most of the debt they incurred when buying the team is still there not by choice. As such, the 10x rules on debt would still apply and it would mean that the cubs literally had to be quite profitable in order to meet those requirements.

It's not a case of them not making money because I'm fairly sure they are one of the most profitable franchises(by necessity). My guess is the initial plan was to operate like this for the 7 years of the deal and use the profits they made to invest in fixing Wrigley. That in turn should have increased their overall revenue which would have pushed their ability to spend up during this 7 year period. However as we've all seen they've been slowed by the rooftop owners and the city in doing so. The 7 year mark ends in Oct 2016 and because the Ricketts have made tons of profit during this period they should have no problem paying down the debt once that is over with.

We'll see if that is indeed the case. But as it pertains to someone like Tanaka, the cubs had to clear up payroll space if they wanted to be serious contenders to sign him. Because of the 10x debt rules they couldn't just sit at $100 mil payroll and pay him $25 mil or whatever it ends up being because that would push them over the 10x like they were in 2011. So, they had to get down to the $60-70 mil they are currently at. Does that mean they will sign him? No it's not certain. But to have any shot at it they had to. However, even if they don't sign him, next year they are going to have a boat load of money to approach FA with or to nab some of the leftovers this year if they so choose. I'm not saying they will be in the $120 mil payroll range but if they are at $60-70 mil now and have spent $105-110 mil the past 2 years that means next year they will have an additional $14 mil coming of their books from Soriano. You're talking around $50 mil payroll free in 2015 plus however much they can free up by paying off debt in Nov of 2016.

daddies3angels said:

Ricketts then is the only dumbass who dumb enough to do that type of deal. I think he proven he a dumbass by way Cubs have been in his 4 yrs of owning team. Since he owned team in 2010 team has been over .500 for total of 5 days. 3 of those days were opening day wins. Cubs havent been 2 games over .500 since he owned team. Just pathetic... Some how there fans and bloggers that keep coming to his defense. Its amazing how the worse franchise in any sport gets support like this from fans . Cubs were a joke before Ricketts cause of 106 yrs thing but during that 106 yrs the Cubs have NEVER been this bad.

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But look on the bright side, that's a pretty decent Opening Day record!

daddies3angels said:

Ricketts then is the only dumbass who dumb enough to do that type of deal.

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There's 30 MLB teams. How often do they actual go up for sale? Not to mention the fact that before buying one you have to get approval from MLB which is why Cuban doesn't own one. There's no guarantee had they passed on this opportunity that another would have ever come for them. Not to mention the fact they supposed actually root for this team. The simple fact of the matter is you don't buy a sports franchise as a short term investment. And in the grand scheme of things 7 years is nothing. I'm sure they thought they could get other stuff done and build up other various revenue sources while they were stuck in this shit hole situation. Obviously that didn't work out for them.

But I mean clearly you just want to complain rather than look at the reality of the situation. It doesn't honestly matter what the Ricketts do if the front office has a payroll in the $100-110 mil range. You can win a lot of games with that sort of resources. See Oakland and Tampa. And it's not far off what the Cardinals spend and they've won multiple titles over the past decade. The problem for the front office is you don't go from a high spending Yankee-lite team to a farm driven "frugal" spending team over night.