DE Corey Wootton says he doesn't expect to return

BearsFan51 said:

So,let me see if I have this correct. A player who won an outright starting job on the best starting defense in 2012 based on his play who proved versatile enough to play at a high level as a DT isn't coming back to Chicago? But a guy who wasn't slated to start for the Lions last year who earned a starting job because the slated starter was injured in camp is now our other base starting defensive end. A guy who has one year of production in his contract year is now our starting DE? Signing a player based off of what they did in their contract YEAR is one of the worst strategies in the NFL according to everyone and according to historical data. Signing a slightly better version of Shea McClellin a guy who get consistently whipped by TEs is the main starter going forward and I'm supposed to believe this improves our defense?

The clock continues to tick on Emery's tenure and,it's growing louder.

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High level at DT? Guy split snaps with with Shea yet he's great and Shea sucks. Shea may suck at end but your examples suck more.

BearsFan51 said:

So,let me see if I have this correct. A player who won an outright starting job on the best starting defense in 2012 based on his play who proved versatile enough to play at a high level as a DT isn't coming back to Chicago? But a guy who wasn't slated to start for the Lions last year who earned a starting job because the slated starter was injured in camp is now our other base starting defensive end. A guy who has one year of production in his contract year is now our starting DE? Signing a player based off of what they did in their contract YEAR is one of the worst strategies in the NFL according to everyone and according to historical data.

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Sorry, but you don't have it correct. Corey Wootton is a decent player, but he didn't play DT at a high level last year and it's laughable to suggest as much. Nor is he capable of playing RE. The Bears prefer Houston at LE and are right to do so given his run-stopping abiility, the money they just invested in him, and the obvious fact that he is clearly the superior player between the two, so the minute Houston was signed Wootton became a a player without a starting position. Flailing about by trying to link Wootton's imminent departure to the Young signing is a case of blowhard-itis at its best. They play two different positions, and neither is capable of playing of playing the other and contributing in any meaningful fashion. Your argument falls on that point alone, even without bringing the valid concerns about Wootton's health in to consideration.

BearsFan51 said:

The clock continues to tick on Emery's tenure and,it's growing louder.

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You do have a rather inflated opinion of your own opinion, don't you? You don't write for the Trib. You don't have a radio show. You do not have the gravitas, the influence, or the medium to apply actual pressure to the job of Phil Emery, but if ranting idle threats on a message board is a cathartic experience for you, go ahead. Just don't expect the rest of us to take you seriously.

Madden said:

I like Wootton but trust Emery to build a solid line. I think Emery is all about "what have you done for me lately" and Wootton only had 3 sacks last year, although he was out of position a majority of the time. It's pretty clear Emery wants his own players in there and won't hesitate to drop the hammer if he thinks he can get more production from someone else.

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Explain Shea Mac please.

Madden said:

I like Wootton but trust Emery to build a solid line. I think Emery is all about "what have you done for me lately" and Wootton only had 3 sacks last year, although he was out of position a majority of the time. It's pretty clear Emery wants his own players in there and won't hesitate to drop the hammer if he thinks he can get more production from someone else.

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The bolded part. Houston and Young didn't have many more sacks than him and Wootton is younger than both, which I thought that was the point of this offseason....

I do not understand this at all if it happens...

BEARS

Edit:Houston and Wooton are the same age.

What is it with some Bears fans wanting to sign injured players?

fatbeard said:

Sorry, but you don't have it correct. Corey Wootton is a decent player, but he didn't play DT at a high level last year and it's laughable to suggest as much. Nor is he capable of playing RE. The Bears prefer Houston at LE and are right to do so given his run-stopping abiility, the money they just invested in him, and the obvious fact that he is clearly the superior player between the two, so the minute Houston was signed Wootton became a a player without a starting position. Flailing about by trying to link Wootton's imminent departure to the Young signing is a case of blowhard-itis at its best. They play two different positions, and neither is capable of playing of playing the other and contributing in any meaningful fashion. Your argument falls on that point alone, even without bringing the valid concerns about Wootton's health in to consideration.
.

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Wow again you're wrong on all accounts. A) Wootton graded out as the 35th best DT in the NFL last year earning pass rush grades and run defense grades in the green according to ProFootballFocus. Of course I'm certain that those that are willing to hold ProFootballFocus up as a pillar of truth for the Willie Young debate are now simultaneously ready to discredit it in the Corey Wootton debate. Anyway Wootton played well considering he's never played the position before and when he wasn't playing well it was because he was earning double teams because the DT next to him wasn't playing well enough to earn a double team.

To say that Wootton couldn't play RDE is kind of laughable because he's never been allowed to play the position because that's been Peppers' position. Conversing further yes Emery may very well envision Lamarr Houston playing the left defensive end spot, which is again a mistake given that Houston doesn't have the outside edge rushing capabilities needed to play that spot. He's essentially asking Houston to play as a 308-pound defensive end despite being a fully capable arguably All-Pro level defensive tackle.

Emery is also praying that Jeremiah Ratliff at 33-years-old can remain healthy enough to play a full 16-game season as the starting 3-technique or he's hoping that the Cowboys don't make the move ahead of the Bears with the Rams to draft Aaron Donald. To make such a move the Cowboys would need only to move up from 16 to 13 in the draft and the Rams would pick up another draft pick while likely not missing out on a player they want at 13.

If Emery is forced to make a pick besides Donald at 14 what 3-technique do you think the Bears should target that you're comfortable with? Jernigan? Sutton?

Emery's far better off moving Houston inside to defensive tackle, and re-signing Wootton. That's the roster that makes the Bears the most ready on defense not trying to squeeze a player like Houston into an outside rushing role at 6-foot-3, again this goes against Emery's own quote where he said he'd focus on length at the DE position moving forward.

Now of course if the Bears don't sign Wootton and Houston is moved to DT you don't have a single capable starting DE on the roster in a draft class pretty much void of immediate impact players at the DE position. Young is a situational rusher at best but he'll be forced into a starting role because Emery has this blind idiocy that a 251-pound DE that gets mauled by tight ends on a consistent basis can be an every down player because he's a good athlete.

Certainly no one is willing to put the heat on Emery but it's clear he has no idea what the fuck he's doing on defense. McClellin, Hardin, and putting Bostic at MIKE, Bostic now competes with Shea McClellin meaning that either Emery's second round pick or his first round pick is going to be a backup, tremendous allocation of draft picks.

There are plenty of signs from failed draft picks to failed pro personnel moves to failed coaching hires that show clearly this franchise is on the downward trend rather than upward trend. Never mind the $20-million contract for a mediocre QB who plays average at best when he is playing well which has left this team in a nightmare of a cash crunch up against the salary cap.

I know everyone is now ecstatic about the Kyle Long pick because he made the Pro Bowl, but the reality is Matt Slauson played better at guard last season than Long did but it was Long who earned the Pro Bowl name based on his namesake.

BearsFan51 said:

I love how your selective memory in this argument holds true like it always has even when it was on BearReport back in the day. Wootton bumped Idonije off the starting job first, Idonije only returned to starting after the injuries. Wootton earned his keep in 2012 and was in the process of doing it again in 2013 before the injury to Collins. By the way Wootton didn't struggle with injury last year he played through one and at a high level at two positions. In addition his arthroscopic surgery on his hip is no different than the scope Marshall has had on his hip three times already including as recently as last year. Would you like to try again to undermine my "arrogance" with your ignorance or stupidity or a combination of both?

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...3_1_israel-idonije-corey-wootton-matt-toeaina

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You have completely bizarre social qualities Bret... Earning keep and ring outright aren't the same concepts. Having taken the job in November isn't a grand statement of winning outright. Are you claiming Izzy didn't play more inside before the games he started there? It's a bogus claim, he had absolutely more value because yeah,Wootton is a better DE.

Since when does struggling mean you're not playing with something? That's EXACTLY what it means. He's in every way deserving of the injury prone label. So what Marshall has the same injury.. Guess what lots of people worry if that won't bite Marshall and hurt the team too.

Sent from my LGL85C using Tapatalk 2

BearsFan51 said:

So,let me see if I have this correct. A player who won an outright starting job on the best starting defense in 2012 based on his play who proved versatile enough to play at a high level as a DT isn't coming back to Chicago? But a guy who wasn't slated to start for the Lions last year who earned a starting job because the slated starter was injured in camp is now our other base starting defensive end. A guy who has one year of production in his contract year is now our starting DE? Signing a player based off of what they did in their contract YEAR is one of the worst strategies in the NFL according to everyone and according to historical data. Signing a slightly better version of Shea McClellin a guy who get consistently whipped by TEs is the main starter going forward and I'm supposed to believe this improves our defense?

The clock continues to tick on Emery's tenure and,it's growing louder.

Click to expand...

where are all the NFL teams lining up to sign wootton?

BearsFan51 said:

So,let me see if I have this correct. A player who won an outright starting job on the best starting defense in 2012 based on his play who proved versatile enough to play at a high level as a DT isn't coming back to Chicago? But a guy who wasn't slated to start for the Lions last year who earned a starting job because the slated starter was injured in camp is now our other base starting defensive end. A guy who has one year of production in his contract year is now our starting DE? Signing a player based off of what they did in their contract YEAR is one of the worst strategies in the NFL according to everyone and according to historical data. Signing a slightly better version of Shea McClellin a guy who get consistently whipped by TEs is the main starter going forward and I'm supposed to believe this improves our defense?

The clock continues to tick on Emery's tenure and,it's growing louder.

Click to expand...

Hahaha i wanted Wootton back to but the part you say he won the DE job in 2012.....who was his competition for that spot again??

BearsFan51 said:

I love how your selective memory in this argument holds true like it always has even when it was on BearReport back in the day. Wootton bumped Idonije off the starting job first, Idonije only returned to starting after the injuries. Wootton earned his keep in 2012 and was in the process of doing it again in 2013 before the injury to Collins. By the way Wootton didn't struggle with injury last year he played through one and at a high level at two positions. In addition his arthroscopic surgery on his hip is no different than the scope Marshall has had on his hip three times already including as recently as last year. Would you like to try again to undermine my "arrogance" with your ignorance or stupidity or a combination of both?

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...3_1_israel-idonije-corey-wootton-matt-toeaina

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You should really read what you're saying though. You're making an arguement that Wootton beat out Izzy for a starting job like that's some kind of accomplishment and it simply is not an accomplishment at all.
Like i already said....i do want Wootton back but you come out with some crazy shit sometimes.

BearsFan51 said:

Wow again you're wrong on all accounts. A) Wootton graded out as the 35th best DT in the NFL last year earning pass rush grades and run defense grades in the green according to ProFootballFocus. Of course I'm certain that those that are willing to hold ProFootballFocus up as a pillar of truth for the Willie Young debate are now simultaneously ready to discredit it in the Corey Wootton debate.

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You mean like that way that you fall back on PFF when it supports your opinion (Wootton) and then ignore it when it doesn't (Young)? Pot, this is Kettle, come in, over. Roger Kettle, send your traffic, you black bastard you.

BearsFan51 said:

Anyway Wootton played well considering he's never played the position before and when he wasn't playing well it was because he was earning double teams because the DT next to him wasn't playing well enough to earn a double team.

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You are conflating Corey Wootton playing relatively well with Corey Wootton playing objectively well. While the former might have happened, the latter (and the more important) certainly didn't. That is inarguable.

BearsFan51 said:

To say that Wootton couldn't play RDE is kind of laughable because he's never been allowed to play the position because that's been Peppers' position.

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Straw-grasping revisionism at its best. Corey Wootton has been in the NFL for four years and has more than two starting seasons worth of snaps. That is more than ample time to judge what he can and can't do. He does have the strength, power, and run defense to play LE. He does not have the burst, athleticism, or pass rush ability to play RE. Not enough for you of a history for you? Let's take a look at one of his college scouting reports:

"Corey is an outstanding combination of size and strength for the position. His production is down from previous seasons and much of that can be attributed to a knee injury sustained in the Alamo Bowl at the end of last season. He is a decent athlete but not an explosive player off the edge. His lateral agility and change of direction hinders his playmaking ability in space. Corey does defend the run well and can anchor effectively to hold the point. He utilizes quick hands and long arms to control blockers but needs to expand his pass rush package to be effective at the next level. Wootton's measurables, instincts and toughness makes him an interesting prospect for most defensive fronts. He wasn't nearly as effective as previous seasons and knee concerns will be closely scrutinized going into the 2010 Draft."

"Wootton is big and has a great amount of power for the defensive end spot. He excels in run defense using his long arms and toughness to disengage from blockers and make plays. Shows good instincts and intelligence when diagnosing at the line of scrimmage. Had some impressive previous production earlier in career. Wootton only possesses average athleticism and isn't comfortable playing in space. Doesn't show the range to make plays away from him in the running game or the edge quickness to consistently get to the quarterback. Has some durability concerns (previous season ending neck injury, major knee injury).

"Very strong at point of attack"
"Flashes high potential in run support"
"Below-average athleticism"
"Lacks explosion"
"Mediocre agility

Evidence, meet BF51. BF51, evidence. I'll let you two get acquainted.

BearsFan51 said:

Conversing further yes Emery may very well envision Lamarr Houston playing the left defensive end spot, which is again a mistake given that Houston doesn't have the outside edge rushing capabilities needed to play that spot. He's essentially asking Houston to play as a 308-pound defensive end despite being a fully capable arguably All-Pro level defensive tackle.

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Houston played around 275-280 with the Raiders. What rock have you been living under?

BearsFan51 said:

Emery is also praying that Jeremiah Ratliff at 33-years-old can remain healthy enough to play a full 16-game season as the starting 3-technique or he's hoping that the Cowboys don't make the move ahead of the Bears with the Rams to draft Aaron Donald. To make such a move the Cowboys would need only to move up from 16 to 13 in the draft and the Rams would pick up another draft pick while likely not missing out on a player they want at 13.

If Emery is forced to make a pick besides Donald at 14 what 3-technique do you think the Bears should target that you're comfortable with? Jernigan? Sutton?

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Pure speculation. You don't know that Emery is projecting Ratliff as the starting 3 tech. You don't know what's happening in the draft. You cannot read minds. You can criticize him for things he hasn't done yet, but it will only further shred what little fig leaf of intellectual credibility you still have here.

BearsFan51 said:

Now of course if the Bears don't sign Wootton and Houston is moved to DT you don't have a single capable starting DE on the roster in a draft class pretty much void of immediate impact players at the DE position. Young is a situational rusher at best but he'll be forced into a starting role because Emery has this blind idiocy that a 251-pound DE that gets mauled by tight ends on a consistent basis can be an every down player because he's a good athlete.

Certainly no one is willing to put the heat on Emery but it's clear he has no idea what the fuck he's doing on defense. McClellin, Hardin, and putting Bostic at MIKE, Bostic now competes with Shea McClellin meaning that either Emery's second round pick or his first round pick is going to be a backup, tremendous allocation of draft picks.

There are plenty of signs from failed draft picks to failed pro personnel moves to failed coaching hires that show clearly this franchise is on the downward trend rather than upward trend. Never mind the $20-million contract for a mediocre QB who plays average at best when he is playing well which has left this team in a nightmare of a cash crunch up against the salary cap.

I know everyone is now ecstatic about the Kyle Long pick because he made the Pro Bowl, but the reality is Matt Slauson played better at guard last season than Long did but it was Long who earned the Pro Bowl name based on his namesake.

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Is Phil Emery on your lawn again? Is he disturbing your axe-grinding? Maybe you'll feel better after a nap and an episode or two of Murder, She Wrote.

I'll always have a special place in my heart for Wooton after ending a certain someone's career.

Wootton is ok but has been pretty disappointing. If he does come back we shouldn't be paying him much.

Rory Sparrow said:

This is true. I limit my ecstasy to one player, so I too would choose Slauson.

Similarly, when I watch porn, I limit myself to watching only one porn star. Watching another porn star would make me feel like I am cheating.

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Now this i just cannot believe......How on earth do you stick to just one porn star?? That's just ludacris to me.

fatbeard said:

You mean like that way that you fall back on PFF when it supports your opinion (Wootton) and then ignore it when it doesn't (Young)? Pot, this is Kettle, come in, over. Roger Kettle, send your traffic, you black bastard you.



You are conflating Corey Wootton playing relatively well with Corey Wootton playing objectively well. While the former might have happened, the latter (and the more important) certainly didn't. That is inarguable.



Straw-grasping revisionism at its best. Corey Wootton has been in the NFL for four years and has more than two starting seasons worth of snaps. That is more than ample time to judge what he can and can't do. He does have the strength, power, and run defense to play LE. He does not have the burst, athleticism, or pass rush ability to play RE. Not enough for you of a history for you? Let's take a look at one of his college scouting reports:

"Corey is an outstanding combination of size and strength for the position. His production is down from previous seasons and much of that can be attributed to a knee injury sustained in the Alamo Bowl at the end of last season. He is a decent athlete but not an explosive player off the edge. His lateral agility and change of direction hinders his playmaking ability in space. Corey does defend the run well and can anchor effectively to hold the point. He utilizes quick hands and long arms to control blockers but needs to expand his pass rush package to be effective at the next level. Wootton's measurables, instincts and toughness makes him an interesting prospect for most defensive fronts. He wasn't nearly as effective as previous seasons and knee concerns will be closely scrutinized going into the 2010 Draft."

"Wootton is big and has a great amount of power for the defensive end spot. He excels in run defense using his long arms and toughness to disengage from blockers and make plays. Shows good instincts and intelligence when diagnosing at the line of scrimmage. Had some impressive previous production earlier in career. Wootton only possesses average athleticism and isn't comfortable playing in space. Doesn't show the range to make plays away from him in the running game or the edge quickness to consistently get to the quarterback. Has some durability concerns (previous season ending neck injury, major knee injury).

"Very strong at point of attack"
"Flashes high potential in run support"
"Below-average athleticism"
"Lacks explosion"
"Mediocre agility

Evidence, meet BF51. BF51, evidence. I'll let you two get acquainted.



Houston played around 275-280 with the Raiders. What rock have you been living under?



Pure speculation. You don't know that Emery is projecting Ratliff as the starting 3 tech. You don't know what's happening in the draft. You cannot read minds. You can criticize him for things he hasn't done yet, but it will only further shred what little fig leaf of intellectual credibility you still have here.



Is Phil Emery on your lawn again? Is he disturbing your axe-grinding? Maybe you'll feel better after a nap and an episode or two of Murder, She Wrote.

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I appreciate that you're not going down without a fight, but Wootton has shown time and time again given his size at 6-foot-6 270-plus pounds that he possesses more than adequate explosion for his size. People conflate Wootton not being explosive enough the same way they conflate Aaron Donald's arm being short. They see a 6-foot-6 guy that's not as explosive as the 6-foot-1 Dwight Freeney and then label him not explosive. The fact of the matter is Wootton's size to strength to explosive ratio is above average for his size.

Speaking of four years in the NFL, Wootton has more sacks in his career and in games played than Willie Young has. But let's hang our playoff hopes on a situational rusher sounds like a great idea to improve the defense. The only thing keeping Wootton from performing better than Young last year was the switch in position to playing DT. Wootton has done EVERYTHING in his career better than Young has.

Then there's this idea beyond Willie Young being a bargain. Young was far from a bargain, the Bears landed him based on being the team willing to pay him the most. No one was lining up to fight to pay Willie Young so Emery forked over the most money Young had seen from any team. The Lions let him walk because they weren't going to pay him to return to a backup role.

Wootton is far and away the better all around than Young eight sacks in 2012 shows Wootton is on the cusp of breaking out.

As far as the "why aren't teams lining up to sign Wootton" argument goes it's virtually the same argument in 2013 that was associated with Michael Bennett. Bennett had shown promise was even named a Secret Superstar for the Tampa Bay Bucs but merely earned a one year prove it deal with the Seahawks.

Runruffshod75 said:

If this is case the first two picks really ought to be DT/DE. Donald & Martin.

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Jizm

Wootton's arrow may have been pointing up after the 2012 season but that doesn't erase his injury history and the fact he is currently recovering from another surgery. I trust this front office to make competent assessments and moves.