Trades I Wish the Cubs Never Made

dreadpirateroberts

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Trades I wish the Cubs have never made:

  1. Andrew Cashner to San Diego Padres
  2. Chris Archer to Tampa Bay Rays
  3. Josh Hamilton to Cincinnati Reds

If we still kept Cashner and Archer, the rotation will probably look like this:

  1. Jeff Samardzija
  2. Andrew Cashner
  3. Chris Archer
  4. Travis Wood
  5. Jake Arrieta
 

CSF77

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Josh was a Cubs rule V they picked to trade to the Reds. Reds wanted him and used the Cubs rule V to get him.

Cash for Rizzo. Idk. Rizzo is hitting .326 right now. Cash threw out a 1 hitter. This could be great for both teams in the end. The park suits Cash. It did not suit Rizzo. I'm not sure if Cash puts up the same production in Wrigg as he does in Petco. I know Rizzo is not putting up the same production in Petco.

Let's just say it was a trade that most likely will be best for the players intrest

Archer<Garza. You are forgetting with out Garza there is no Olt, Grimm, Neil Ramirez and Edwards. All 4 are talented enough to play on this squad
 

dabears253313

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Josh was a Cubs rule V they picked to trade to the Reds. Reds wanted him and used the Cubs rule V to get him.

Cash for Rizzo. Idk. Rizzo is hitting .326 right now. Cash threw out a 1 hitter. This could be great for both teams in the end. The park suits Cash. It did not suit Rizzo. I'm not sure if Cash puts up the same production in Wrigg as he does in Petco. I know Rizzo is not putting up the same production in Petco.

Let's just say it was a trade that most likely will be best for the players intrest

Archer<Garza. You are forgetting with out Garza there is no Olt, Grimm, Neil Ramirez and Edwards. All 4 are talented enough to play on this squad

Garza was also pretty freaking good, especially his last month or so with the Cubs.

I also think Edwards has the potential to be the Cubs #1.
 

nwfisch

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Chris Carpenter for Theo Baseball.
 

JosMin

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The Rizzo/Cashner swap was a risk for both squads. Buying low on each player. The Cubs felt like Cashner was never going to have the stamina to be a starter and figured that if you could turn a reliever into something valuable like they did with Sean Marshall (a minor leaguer, Dave Sappelt and Travis Wood), you certainly have to try. The Padres probably felt like Rizzo would never reach his full offensive potential playing in Petco and knew that having pitching depth is always more valuable when you're in a pitcher-friendly park. The Padres probably have a slight edge in the "who won the trade" conversation right now, but if Rizzo ends up transforming into the .285/.350/.500 30 homer/100 RBI guy who plays solid defense that they envisioned, the trade is a wash.
 

SilenceS

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The Rizzo/Cashner swap was a risk for both squads. Buying low on each player. The Cubs felt like Cashner was never going to have the stamina to be a starter and figured that if you could turn a reliever into something valuable like they did with Sean Marshall (a minor leaguer, Dave Sappelt and Travis Wood), you certainly have to try. The Padres probably felt like Rizzo would never reach his full offensive potential playing in Petco and knew that having pitching depth is always more valuable when you're in a pitcher-friendly park. The Padres probably have a slight edge in the "who won the trade" conversation right now, but if Rizzo ends up transforming into the .285/.350/.500 30 homer/100 RBI guy who plays solid defense that they envisioned, the trade is a wash.

I dont know man. Aces are few and far between now a days. Still got a ways to go until we know who won the trade. Hopefully, both teams did.
 

JosMin

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I dont know man. Aces are few and far between now a days. Still got a ways to go until we know who won the trade. Hopefully, both teams did.

That's the point, dude -- the Cubs felt that, at the time, Cashner wasn't going to be an ace. When they pulled the trigger on that deal, they still had Garza, Dempster, Samardzija, Wood and Maholm as their starting five. Not world beaters, but you have to figure that Theo was fairly confident in that unit as constructed back then. When you consider that Cashner was coming off a season in which he pitched a TOTAL of 15.1 innings and had injury issues in the past, it might've been time to move on. Again, it's still too early to call this one. Cashner is healthy and is starting to dominate. Rizzo is slowly coming along against lefties, playing good defense and has hit consistently so far this year. Hopefully both teams will end up with whatever they sought when the trade happened.
 

2323

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That's the point, dude -- the Cubs felt that, at the time, Cashner wasn't going to be an ace. When they pulled the trigger on that deal, they still had Garza, Dempster, Samardzija, Wood and Maholm as their starting five. Not world beaters, but you have to figure that Theo was fairly confident in that unit as constructed back then. When you consider that Cashner was coming off a season in which he pitched a TOTAL of 15.1 innings and had injury issues in the past, it might've been time to move on. Again, it's still too early to call this one. Cashner is healthy and is starting to dominate. Rizzo is slowly coming along against lefties, playing good defense and has hit consistently so far this year. Hopefully both teams will end up with whatever they sought when the trade happened.

What's the point of saying "the Cubs felt that"? Everyone has opinions on players. The hard part is making the right decisions on players.
 

2323

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I have to say, people often forget that the wind typically blows in at Wrigley more than it blows out. So it's kind of silly to suggest Wrigley is a place where Cashner couldn't have been successful.

Also, it's great that Rizzo is hitting .326 in April, but the real tale of the tape is Slg %, not average, since Rizzo is a middle of the lineup guy who is supposed to have power.

There's an interesting dilemma ahead. I wouldn't be surprised if Vogelbach ends up better than Rizzo. But will Theo trade Vogelbach because Rizzo is "his" guy and someone he gave up Cashner for. I wonder whether Theo will do what's best for the Cubs even if that means admitting he might have been wrong. GMs can be stubborn in these ways.
 

nwfisch

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Don't expect Theo Box Office to cut his losses, he did sign Ian Stewshart for TWO years.
 

X

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There's an interesting dilemma ahead. I wouldn't be surprised if Vogelbach ends up better than Rizzo. But will Theo trade Vogelbach because Rizzo is "his" guy and someone he gave up Cashner for. I wonder whether Theo will do what's best for the Cubs even if that means admitting he might have been wrong. GMs can be stubborn in these ways.

I'm not sure that this is really even an issue. Despite Fisch's deeply-rooted man crush on Theo, I don't recall any move that Theo made that is overwhelmingly to prove he was 'right'. Yeah, you can argue that Cashner/Rizzo trade was that, but to this point there can't be a declaration made on who won the trade. :shrug:
 

2323

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I'm not sure that this is really even an issue. Despite Fisch's deeply-rooted man crush on Theo, I don't recall any move that Theo made that is overwhelmingly to prove he was 'right'. Yeah, you can argue that Cashner/Rizzo trade was that, but to this point there can't be a declaration made on who won the trade. :shrug:

This really doesn't address what I said.
 

2323

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I'm not sure that this is really even an issue. Despite Fisch's deeply-rooted man crush on Theo, I don't recall any move that Theo made that is overwhelmingly to prove he was 'right'. Yeah, you can argue that Cashner/Rizzo trade was that, but to this point there can't be a declaration made on who won the trade. :shrug:

This really doesn't address what I said.
 

X

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This really doesn't address what I said.

What makes you think that might happen? I guess that would be my question.
 

beckdawg

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With all due respect to Cashner, he's 27. This is the point of his career where he's suppose to be his absolute best. Rizzo is 24. A lot of quality 1B don't even see the majors for the first time until 24. Votto had 89 PAs as a 23 year old and the following season was his first full year for example. And as I've said before, he's not even playing that bad. His .241/.327/.413 is lower than you'd like but a .327 OBP is still pretty good and his average seems to be heavily influenced by BABIP last season. And again, we've likely not seen the best Rizzo that he will be as of yet.

Additionally, the cubs pitching really hasn't been that bad with the exceptions of Jackson and Villanueva. In the case of Villanueva, he's likely only starting because of an injury to Arrieta and in any case he's a 5th starter. Sharks ERA is 1.29, Hammel is 2.63, and Wood is 2.92. Jackson is obviously the disappointing one as he's who they actually gave decent money to. If Rizzo is "losing" a trade then I'm fine with it. Imagine where the already bad offense would be without him. Meanwhile, they've managed to scrounge up 3 pretty decent pitchers for next to nothing in FA(Maholm, Feldman, Hammel). If Cashner turns into a Cy young level pitcher then perhaps it was a mistake. But if he's your Garza/Shark level pitcher in that he's either injured or inconsistent with flashes of brilliance then he's not that hard to replace.
 

SilenceS

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With all due respect to Cashner, he's 27. This is the point of his career where he's suppose to be his absolute best. Rizzo is 24. A lot of quality 1B don't even see the majors for the first time until 24. Votto had 89 PAs as a 23 year old and the following season was his first full year for example. And as I've said before, he's not even playing that bad. His .241/.327/.413 is lower than you'd like but a .327 OBP is still pretty good and his average seems to be heavily influenced by BABIP last season. And again, we've likely not seen the best Rizzo that he will be as of yet.

Additionally, the cubs pitching really hasn't been that bad with the exceptions of Jackson and Villanueva. In the case of Villanueva, he's likely only starting because of an injury to Arrieta and in any case he's a 5th starter. Sharks ERA is 1.29, Hammel is 2.63, and Wood is 2.92. Jackson is obviously the disappointing one as he's who they actually gave decent money to. If Rizzo is "losing" a trade then I'm fine with it. Imagine where the already bad offense would be without him. Meanwhile, they've managed to scrounge up 3 pretty decent pitchers for next to nothing in FA(Maholm, Feldman, Hammel). If Cashner turns into a Cy young level pitcher then perhaps it was a mistake. But if he's your Garza/Shark level pitcher in that he's either injured or inconsistent with flashes of brilliance then he's not that hard to replace.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/hitters-age-like-wine-power-like-cheese/

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/pitcher-aging-curves-starters-and-relievers/
 

CSF77

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Shark:---------1.29 ERA---1.05 WHIP----6.43 K/9
Hammel:-----2.63 ERA---0.51 WHIP----7.42 K/9
Wood:--------2.92 ERA---1.14 WHIP---12.41 K/9
Jackson:-----6.19 ERA---1.88 WHIP----7.87 K/9
Villanueva:-11.59 ERA---2.14 WHIP----5.79 K/9

When Arrieta gets back this rotation will not look that bad right now.

We can toss W/L out the window right now with them. The over all team was bubble gummed together.

Cashner is not going to provide more wins for the Cubs this year. Rizzo's O will provide more wins this year.

The team need run support more than SP at this time. Yes Villanueva sucks but he will be replaced soon.

I would have promoted Tsuyoshi Wada today and shit canned Carlos after that last turd. But W/E.



As an over all view of things. The trades have been good. Even if Cash is better than Rizzo. Rizzo still holds quality value. Then you have to look at the other trades. Maholm for Viz. Then Marshall for Wood. Then Dempster for Hendricks, Garza for a truck load. Feldman for Arrietta and Strop.

Over all they have loaded up.

The one bad transaction they made: Signing Jackson. That one was just stupid.

The one bad no transaction not resigning A-Ram. (Well they got out bid on 2 great pitchers but W/E)

The rest of them was never going to happen. (IE Fielder)
 

CSF77

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The only bad trade they made was trading LeMaheu for Stewart. But over all the talent was shitty on both sides. DJ would have been pushed out by Baez even if he did beat Barney at 2B.

The only part of this deal that irked me was it was the cost cut solution to A-Ram. That is the sore point. Not the players involved.
 

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