Mirotic

clonetrooper264

Retired Bandwagon Mod
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Apr 11, 2009
Posts:
23,331
Liked Posts:
7,397
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  2. Golden State Warriors
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Actually John Wall might even end up better....and that's a lot coming from me because Hou will even tell you I'm D Rose's number #1 fanboy :troll:
Yeah because Rose is a heartless pussy because he sat out when he was 100% healthy right? :troll:
 

RoseMVP1

Well-known member
Joined:
Jul 25, 2012
Posts:
3,966
Liked Posts:
989
Yeah because Rose is a heartless pussy because he sat out when he was 100% healthy right? :troll:

Derrick Rose is god and wouldn't sit out if he was 100%...so he obviously wasn't 100% :troll: John Wall is the superior rebounder, defender, and has better court vision. when he got back into game shape last season he was damn near unstoppable because he was hitting that jump shot. when he was starting they had a winning record and that team was putrid. he's just that gifted
 

Raskolnikov

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 23, 2012
Posts:
22,241
Liked Posts:
7,739
Location:
Enemy Territory via southern C
John Wall is not going to be better than Rose, you guys are out of your fucking minds.

I have a friend who lives on the chesepeake and goes on and on about wall. The guy has a peanut brain and makes stupid passes. His fanboys make excuses about "the passes are so good his teammates aren't good enough to handle them."

Don't thrown them to people who can't catch them. Touch is as important as velocity and accuracy, Orton.

When Wall wins one MVP (never happen) , lets talk. Until then Wall fanboys shut your mouth you look stupid like your boy.
 

Shepard

Renegade
Donator
Joined:
May 31, 2013
Posts:
2,286
Liked Posts:
1,183
Location:
SE WI
John Wall is not going to be better than Rose, you guys are out of your fucking minds.

This really bothers me that ANYONE would say this. Is Wall a better athlete than Rose? I think Wall is a better athlete than anyone....but a better BASKETBALL player? He isn't anywhere close to Rose's league and he never will be.
 

clonetrooper264

Retired Bandwagon Mod
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Apr 11, 2009
Posts:
23,331
Liked Posts:
7,397
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  2. Golden State Warriors
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
This really bothers me that ANYONE would say this. Is Wall a better athlete than Rose? I think Wall is a better athlete than anyone....but a better BASKETBALL player? He isn't anywhere close to Rose's league and he never will be.
That's debatable. His rebound, assist and defensive numbers have been superior to Rose's since his rookie year (per 36 minutes, but in general that's about true as well). Scoring wise, in their rookie years they were comparable, but obviously Rose has taken a huge step that Wall has yet to take. Rose has also got the edge in efficiency and overall percentages. Interestingly, Wall has shown a better propensity for drawing fouls. I don't think that's entirely Rose's fault, but just saying. The big thing about Wall is his turnovers, which he averages nearly 4 per game for his career.

So the comparison is there. Rose is clearly the better player now, but it's not out of the question to think that Wall could also be a dominant player like Rose and be comparable to him. He might never win MVP, but he's no scrub either.
 

Bear Pride

Bears Gonna Shock the World!
Joined:
Aug 28, 2012
Posts:
10,616
Liked Posts:
3,075
Nikola Mirotic watch ......

Nikola Mirotic and Real Madrid are going for another championship. They just finished game 1 with a win. We very well could here something from Mirotic right after the championship run. I will keep this updated with news as such.

--------------------------------

Real Madrid runs to 88-71 Game 1 victory over Olympiacos

rudy-fernandez-real-madrid-eb13.jpg



In a rematch of the last year’s Euroleague title game, Real Madrid never stopped running on its home floor, overcoming a strong charge from reigning champion Olympiacos Piraeus before pulling away to an 88-71 decision in Game 1 of their best-of-five playoff series.

Game 2 scheduled for Thursday night in the Spanish capital, before the series moves to Piraeus next week. Madrid stormed out of the gates, using defense to get fastbreaks and a 27-12 lead after the first quarter. Reminiscent of that title game a year ago, however, Olympiacos rallied in the second quarter behind the Vassilis Spanoulis to tie the score at 35-35 and 40-40, but the Reds never regained the lead.

A strong finish from Sergio Rodriguez gave the hosts a 48-41 halftime lead, before Rudy Fernandez took over after the break, boosting the difference to 68-51 as Madrid cruised to victory in the final quarter. Fernandez paced the winners with 20 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, and 3 steals.

Nikola Mirotic had 15 points, 6 rebounds and 5 steals, while Rodriguez and Sergio Llull netted 12 apiece for Madrid. Spanoulis finished the game with 18 points and 5 assists. Georgios Printezis returned from injury after five games to score 10 points for Olympiacos, while Cedric Simmons chipped in with 8 points plus 7 rebounds.

Read More ......
 

Bear Pride

Bears Gonna Shock the World!
Joined:
Aug 28, 2012
Posts:
10,616
Liked Posts:
3,075
I like to hear things like this!

--------------------

In an interview with the Spanish newspaper Diario AS, Mirotic said he's close to making a decision about his future, and he also talked about his thought process in regards to staying in Europe or coming to the Bulls (translated by Sportando.com):
The most important thing for me is the ambition. It is not an economic issue. I will do what my heart says. What is the best for me. The options are Chicago or Real Madrid where I can improve and build a future.

I don't know yet but I will make a decision soon, said Mirotic who spoke also about a new contract offer made by the Spanish powerhouse. Real Madrid talked with my agent but they did not reach an agreement yet on a new contract, added the forward. My decision will not be influenced by the victory in Euroleague.

This is clear for me. It is something more personal. I wish we can win Euroleague. But I will not put myself in a situation that I will go to the NBA only if I win Euroleague, added Mirotic.
 

Bear Pride

Bears Gonna Shock the World!
Joined:
Aug 28, 2012
Posts:
10,616
Liked Posts:
3,075
Here's a real good article explaining the terms of the buyout, and what's involved with him coming over to the Bulls:

----------------------------------------

Of course, one has to imagine money will play a part in the decision. We've debated what type of contract would required to get Mirotic over here, with some thinking the full MLE ($5.305 million in the first year) and others believing cap space will be required. CBS Sports' Ken Berger reported Mirotic will be looking for a salary in the $3-4 million range, but that seems awfully low considering the prohibitive buyout.


The buyout really does make things a bit tricky, and Nate Duncan of Basketball Insiders did a nice job a few weeks ago explaining why:



The Bulls face a number of issues bringing over Mirotic starting with his massive 2.5 million Euro buyout, which translates to $3.475 million at current exchange rates.


Buyouts from European teams are an extremely tricky business in the NBA. The Collective Bargaining Agreement prevents teams from spending more than what is known as the Excluded International Player Payment to buyout international players without it counting against the salary cap.

This amount is $600,000 in 2014-15 (it has and will go up $25,000 each year of the CBA). Beyond that, any buyout amount is paid by the player. It was this buyout that prevented the Bulls from having a realistic chance to bring him over before this summer.

Mirotic was the 23rd pick in the 2011 draft, and therefore was prescribed such a low salary that there is no way it would have made financial sense for him to come to the Bulls before this summer.



Since the Bulls can only pay $600,000 of that buyout, Mirotic must foot the bill for the remainder, which is $2.875 million. That amount could come in the form of a signing bonus, but as Duncan explains, there could be some issues if the Bulls only have the MLE at their disposal:



However, paying the buyout as a signing bonus has important consequences for the size of Mirotic's overall contract because of another rule that limits signing bonuses to 15 percent of the overall contract value.

If the buyout were paid entirely as a signing bonus, that means the minimum overall value of Mirotic's contract would be $19.2 million. On a three-year deal, this would require a first-year cap number of approximately $6.1 million, about $800,000 above the mid-level exception amount.

The amount of the buyout/bonus allocable to the first (and each successive) salary cap year would be $958,333, or one third of the bonus.* If the Bulls do not amnesty Carlos Boozer to open up cap space greater than the MLE, or would simply like to pay Mirotic less, this would cause problems because they would not be able to give Mirotic a contract starting at less than $6.1 million if the entire buyout were paid as a bonus.



Read More .....
 

Bear Pride

Bears Gonna Shock the World!
Joined:
Aug 28, 2012
Posts:
10,616
Liked Posts:
3,075
I saw this posted in another thread (props scoot), and thought more money is good and could help the Bulls next year. Could the Bulls land Melo and Mirotic? Be hard to stay mad at PaxGar for that!

--------------------------

As the 2014 NBA Playoffs are upon us, the current focus of the league isn’t exactly on salary cap considerations, but if the latest cap projections are correct, they could be hugely impactful for some high-profile teams around the league.

Larry Coon of CBA FAQ (and ESPN.com) reports that the NBA is set for a sizable jump in both the salary cap and luxury tax next season:
The NBA issued new projections for the 2014-15 and 2015-16 salary cap and luxury tax thresholds. The 2014-15 salary cap is now projected to be $63.2 million and the tax level is projected to be $77.0 million. The numbers for 2015-16 are now projected to be $66.5 million and $81.0 million, respectively.

While it might not seem like much, that increase could be incredibly crucial from a player movement standpoint, as the NBA is infamous for having the most restrictions on transactions due to their cap situation.

.@LarryCoon projecting unexpected jump of $5M in salary cap for next year. If that holds, it’s a game changer for Melo & his CHI/HOU options
— Brian Windhorst (@WindhorstESPN) April 19, 2014



Read More .........
 

PolarBear

Well-known member
Joined:
Jul 8, 2013
Posts:
4,711
Liked Posts:
2,811
I think people need to stop thinking Mirotic will be the next Dirk Nowitzki and settle for a player who will be similar to Ryan Anderson.

He will be a good role player but nothing else. He isn't a player the Bulls should look to break the bank on or bring in hoping to be a star player when Melo is there to be signed.
 

Bear Pride

Bears Gonna Shock the World!
Joined:
Aug 28, 2012
Posts:
10,616
Liked Posts:
3,075
And, Imo, Mirotic will prove guy's like you wrong, and your 'opinions', eventually, will be laughable!
 

PolarBear

Well-known member
Joined:
Jul 8, 2013
Posts:
4,711
Liked Posts:
2,811
Mirotic averages 6 RPG in the Euro league...that tells me all I need to know about this kid. Another soft euro big who will live out on the perimeter as a stretch 4 like guys like Andrea Bargnani and Ryan Anderson do. Thibs will then yank him in the 4th quarter of every game similar to Booz because he is below average defensively and can't even rebound like Booz does.

I am not saying the kid won't make it in the NBA but the most he will ever be will be a good role player on a contending team. He can fill up the scoreboard but that's about it. He will average like 15-5 and shoot 3's and FT's at a high % for a big man. Basically Ryan Anderson.
 

Crystallas

Three if by air
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Jun 25, 2010
Posts:
19,896
Liked Posts:
9,618
Location:
Next to the beef gristle mill
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Bulls
Mirotic isn't the next Dirk. And I don't think anyone here has said that. But Ryan Anderson? :lol: C'mon. The gap between the NBA and Euroleague's best teams isn't as big as people make it out to be. The best team in the NCAA would lose the best team in Euroleague, and the best player in Euroleague will be productive in the NBA. Right now, Mirotic is the best player in Euroleague, and will be for many years if he stays there, or he'll be a potential all-star in the NBA, which is not a bad option for the Bulls. Good ceiling.

Mind you, he HAS played against NBA players, plays with former NBA players(both scrubs, and legit former starters in the NBA). This is not an argument, like it was when the Bulls brought over Kukoc, and many expected Toni to be a a bum in the NBA. Mirotic is already far more established. Toni was also the best player in Euroleague.

LMAO, Ryan Anderson. That's just flat out ignorant. This must be coming from a fan's angle that believes it's better to put down Niko so the fans will rally around Melo or Love. Otherwise there is no logical reason for a rational person to rip on him.


Do yourself a favor before you base everything on box scores and your own imagination. Scout him out for a few games. Scout out his footwork, positioning, decision making, and play making. Then you'll understand why the hype exists.
 

PolarBear

Well-known member
Joined:
Jul 8, 2013
Posts:
4,711
Liked Posts:
2,811
Ryan Anderson averages 19-6 and shoots FT's and 3's at a high % for a big man. Anderson is below average defensively and can't bang on the inside. Sounds exactly like Mirotic. I think you underrate Ryan Anderson a little bit and just how similar these two guys look.

[video=youtube;-STnRO59BD0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-STnRO59BD0[/video]

Just watch a couple of the ways Anderson get his points in that clip and look at Mirotic and you can see similarities in their games. Obviously this is a minute sample size but I have watched Mirotic play. They are both at their best offensively in spot up and pick and pop situations. They can both handle the rock pretty well for PF's and can attack the lane using shot fakes etc. But they are both below average on defense and cannot bang in the middle.

Why don't you actually argue against the points I am making and prove to me how they are that much different.
 

Crystallas

Three if by air
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Jun 25, 2010
Posts:
19,896
Liked Posts:
9,618
Location:
Next to the beef gristle mill
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Bulls
Sorry, but using fundamental techniques that most players use =/= same game style.

Ryan Anderson rarely carries his team, and get gets streaky from downtown as one of the best bigmen 3pt shooters in the NBA. Yes, which is a good thing to suggest of Niko, other than Niko having a more consistent shot and being quicker. Niko also is superior at basic play positioning, outstanding at reading and playing the passing lanes(but yeah, sucks at defense :rolleyes:), and stays in front of his man. Knows how to avoid stupid fouls, and can get to the line himself. Niko can create off the dribble, where Ryan Anderson can only create outside shots and a few basic post moves.

Both favor face-to-basket style, that's true. But in the NBA right now, only a handful of players play back to the basket, and most of them are swingmen, rarely PFs. If Pau Gasol is the definitive soft big-man in the NBA, Niko already plays harder in the paint than Pau does, and rarely do you see young guys bang away anyways, until they hit their later 20s with added muscle.

If you want to say Niko might be a faster, smarter, more versatile, bigger arsenal, harder working version of Ryan Anderson(because you know, can only compare white players to white players apparently)... Then there might be more truth to that point of view.
 
Last edited:

PolarBear

Well-known member
Joined:
Jul 8, 2013
Posts:
4,711
Liked Posts:
2,811
Yeah, Mirotic looks real good driving past and creating space against players in the Euroleague but stick him in the NBA and that part of his game just won't translate. I very much doubt Mirotic will have the same success driving to the paint from the perimeter in the NBA where the level of athleticism is much higher or creating his own shot against players of similar size and greater athleticism. Defensively, the same deal. He will be facing bigger and better athletes in the NBA and will get beat up continually.

I really think you are kidding yourself if you think his athleticism will translate.

As far as the white basketball player comparison...It's not about skin colour, that's just who his style of play is like. If you would like another comparison, a slightly less athletic and longer Chris Bosh.
 

RoseMVP1

Well-known member
Joined:
Jul 25, 2012
Posts:
3,966
Liked Posts:
989
We just have to wait and see. Saying he's soft because he's averaging 6 rpg is a little extreme. The game is played different there and there aren't players putting up gaudy stat lines as a result. I actually don't mind people saying he's just another Ryan Anderson cause it reduces some of the pressure he'll have coming over. Plus there were a lot of people saying that coming out, Dirk's ceiling was Keith Van Horn's level and I think we've all seen how he completely shattered that.
 

Bear Pride

Bears Gonna Shock the World!
Joined:
Aug 28, 2012
Posts:
10,616
Liked Posts:
3,075
Yeah, Mirotic looks real good driving past and creating space against players in the Euroleague but stick him in the NBA and that part of his game just won't translate. I very much doubt Mirotic will have the same success driving to the paint from the perimeter in the NBA where the level of athleticism is much higher or creating his own shot against players of similar size and greater athleticism. Defensively, the same deal. He will be facing bigger and better athletes in the NBA and will get beat up continually.

I really think you are kidding yourself if you think his athleticism will translate.

As far as the white basketball player comparison...It's not about skin colour, that's just who his style of play is like. If you would like another comparison, a slightly less athletic and longer Chris Bosh.

Oh, I see. He's white, 6'10", he must be Anderson, right? :smh: Dude, Real Madrid played Memphis in two exhibition games two years ago, and averaged close to 20 pts and 10 rebounds, and I remember all the Memphis guys talking up Mirtotic pretty good.
 

Bear Pride

Bears Gonna Shock the World!
Joined:
Aug 28, 2012
Posts:
10,616
Liked Posts:
3,075
Real Madrid wins game #2. Mirotic get's them going with 9 pts in the 1st quarter:

Bourousis leads Real Madrid to 2-0 series lead

ioannis-bourousis-real-madrid-eb13.jpg

Read More .....
 

cjswan232482

New member
Joined:
Jul 14, 2013
Posts:
1,169
Liked Posts:
302
Yeah, Mirotic looks real good driving past and creating space against players in the Euroleague but stick him in the NBA and that part of his game just won't translate. I very much doubt Mirotic will have the same success driving to the paint from the perimeter in the NBA where the level of athleticism is much higher or creating his own shot against players of similar size and greater athleticism. Defensively, the same deal. He will be facing bigger and better athletes in the NBA and will get beat up continually.

I really think you are kidding yourself if you think his athleticism will translate.

As far as the white basketball player comparison...It's not about skin colour, that's just who his style of play is like. If you would like another comparison, a slightly less athletic and longer Chris Bosh.

Wasn't the same things said about Toni Kukoc? He drove and created just fine.
 

Top