Kris Bryant and the Future (part 2)

dabynsky

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Lets try this again with actually sticking to the topic of Kris Bryant. I recently made the argument that Kris Bryant ought to stay in AA for the following reasons:
  1. AAA is not going to challenge his bat
  2. His defense at 3B is very below average at this point
  3. But I think he is capable of playing 3B
  4. And he has way more value at 3B

Regardless of where he is at it is exciting to have a prospect dominating a high level of the minor leagues in frankly a way none of the various failed prospects you want to list did.
 
SilenceS

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The last thread should have been closed. Somebody was cranky. Back to topic. I agree with you. I think he needs to be just straight called up from AA. Not exactly right now because I want to see more progression with K percentage, but that would be my plan.
 

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I've been saying for awhile now I think they will leave him in AA for most of the AA season if not all of it and then call him up to the majors to see more advanced pitching. I agree with all of the reasons you stated about AA. High level prospect skipping AAA is often pretty common.
 
chibears55

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Didn't get why a sox fan comes into a cubs message board and decides to close a thread for no other reason then he can...
Anyhow..
I think if Bryant keeps hitting up to the break and Olt still hasn't figured it out, they should bring him up and let him get acclimated to major league pitching the final 2 months just to see if he a keeper to stsrt 2015 at 3B or if they need to look elsewhere in off season because he not ready.

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justaChifan

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If the org. feels he needs more seasoning in the minors, by all means keep him there.

I just hate hearing about super 2's and not starting his clock as being justification for holding him back.
When better to get major league seasoning than in a throw away year like this year?
 
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I've said it before I'd be all for calling up Logan Watkins (.295/.380/.390) and having him some hacks at second base and shifting Valbuena to third base. Offensively, this team needs to start figuring things out outside of Rizzo and Castro. Alcantara is getting close, but I still think he needs to be a bit more disciplined and work deeper into counts before he gets his audition. Barney and Olt have flamed out. I was a huge supporter of Olt going into spring and his K rate is just creating a black hole. Ditto with what's happened in right field.

With Bryant, I wouldn't be opposed to keeping him in AA all season to potentially work on his K rate and defense. With drafting Schwerber, that kind of hinted to me the Cubs are really wanting Bryant to stick at third since Schwerber is less likely to stick at catcher and will probably move to a corner outfield spot.
 

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justaChifan said:
If the org. feels he needs more seasoning in the minors, by all means keep him there.

I just hate hearing about super 2's and not starting his clock as being justification for holding him back.
When better to get major league seasoning than in a throw away year like this year?
Click to expand...

I completely agree that this season is a great opportunity to get him experience because we do suck. But Super-2 is the exact reasoning that he isn't up yet. Whether or not you or anyone else want to argue against it. It is why.

In my opinion, I think it's worth it. I'd rather they save a ton of money by not bringing him up for 2-3 weeks of playing time. Mainly because it's not like we have anything at stake this season.
 

brett05

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So when does super two end?

I disagree with AAA not being a challenge. The past prospects say otherwise



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justaChifan

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Captain Obvious said:
I completely agree that this season is a great opportunity to get him experience because we do suck. But Super-2 is the exact reasoning that he isn't up yet. Whether or not you or anyone else want to argue against it. It is why.

In my opinion, I think it's worth it. I'd rather they save a ton of money by not bringing him up for 2-3 weeks of playing time. Mainly because it's not like we have anything at stake this season.
Click to expand...

Not saying he will be but by chance, if he feels ready to make the jump and could be the next coming of say a George Brett or Mike Schmidt ( I know a stretch), how much confidence in the org. does that instill in him when he realizes that the bottom line is all that matters? Not much I say
 
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Normally, players must have accrued at least three years of MLB service time before they can be eligible for salary arbitration — or in other words, until they can negotiate their salary and not have it automatically set by their club. But certain players with less than three years of service time can also become eligible for arbitration, if they meet the following criteria:
● If they have less than three years of service time, but more than two.
● If they rank within the top 22% of all 2-year players in terms of service time.
So if a player finishes a season and is just shy of three years of service time (say, 2 years and 171 days) then MLB will award them Super Two status and they’ll be eligible for arbitration. Since these players are still under team control for another three seasons, that means Super Two players get four year of salary arbitration instead of the typical three.
The Super Two cutoff used to stand at 17%, but got changed to 22% in the new CBA negotiations. This means that if a team wants to keep a player in the minors until after the Super Two cutoff, they will have to keep that player in the minors for even longer than before. Considering that the cutoff used to fall sometime in June — it varied from year to year, as the 17% cutoff isn’t tied to a specific date — it will likely end up being in July going forward.
Click to expand...

FWIW from Fangraphs.
 
chibears55

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nwfisch said:
FWIW from Fangraphs.
Click to expand...
so basically they could bring him up this year and have to deal with super 2 status or 3 yrs Arb eligible in off season 2017 or wait til next yr and deal with it in off season 2018....
if that the case then its just a matter of when you feel he ready to face big league pitching. .

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dabynsky

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brett05 said:
So when does super two end?

I disagree with AAA not being a challenge. The past prospects say otherwise



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Click to expand...
The reason I don't think AAA will be a challenge is exactly the reason why it is so challenging for Baez. AAA is home to more experienced pitcher that are capable of doing things like pitching backwards/working a game plan. What is Kris Bryant's strengths at the plate? Prodigious power and have an advanced approach to hitting. You combine the fact that for every Noah Syndergaard in AAA there are three to four Chris Rusins/Casey Colemans, the ballparks in the PCL and the summer months and I wouldn't be shocked if Bryant's numbers actually improved moving to AAA.
 

brett05

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dabynsky said:
The reason I don't think AAA will be a challenge is exactly the reason why it is so challenging for Baez. AAA is home to more experienced pitcher that are capable of doing things like pitching backwards/working a game plan. What is Kris Bryant's strengths at the plate? Prodigious power and have an advanced approach to hitting. You combine the fact that for every Noah Syndergaard in AAA there are three to four Chris Rusins/Casey Colemans, the ballparks in the PCL and the summer months and I wouldn't be shocked if Bryant's numbers actually improved moving to AAA.
Click to expand...
I would. I understand pcl but its more than made up by the pitching quality for me

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chibears55 said:
Didn't get why a sox fan comes into a cubs message board and decides to close a thread for no other reason then he can...
Click to expand...
It was dumb and lame both...particularly the reason given for doing it.

As for Bryant is AA, does this mean you don't call him up in September?
 
SilenceS

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brett05 said:
I would. I understand pcl but its more than made up by the pitching quality for me

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Click to expand...

It wouldnt hurt him going to AAA. We are just saying people around baseball do not think it would do anything for him. Major League pitching will be his only next obstacle. His approach is fucking great. It just allows for high K rate. But, in reality, who knows what the Cubs FO is thinking.
 
chibears55

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SilenceS said:
It wouldnt hurt him going to AAA. We are just saying people around baseball do not think it would do anything for him. Major League pitching will be his only next obstacle. His approach is fucking great. It just allows for high K rate. But, in reality, who knows what the Cubs FO is thinking.
Click to expand...
I remember years ago the baseball people would talk about how certain hitters may actually improve contact wise in majors over minors simply because pitching was better.. meaning major league pitchers are consistently in the strike zone more then most minor league pitchers who at that stage struggle with control and hitters tend to be more impatience cause they want to hit...



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JZsportsfan

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If you call him up and he fails that can be good or bad.

Rizzo was awful in his first stint but started the next season for the Cubs in the minors correcting his flaws before coming to the Cubs in June

or

You could have a Jackson/Vitters type thing and send his career down the tubes. Obviously Bryant is much more talented than those 2, just trying to make a comparison.
 
dabynsky

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brett05 said:
I would. I understand pcl but its more than made up by the pitching quality for me

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Click to expand...
I think you don't have an accurate picture of what the majority of pitchers in AAA are like. There are far more journeyman guys than legitimate prospects with big league caliber stuff. The guys there know how to pitch, but that is not what Kris Bryant is going to struggle with (Baez on the other hand...). Seriously here is the list of current ERA leader in PCL. Tell me where the huge step up in quality is coming facing a bunch of late 20s/early 30 somethings that have either had a shot/failed or never will get a shot arms?
 
CSF77

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Super 2 only matters if you promote a player early season. Say in May then that year counts towards his clock.

The cut off date means they can start his clock and the current year will not count. IE free service time gained for the club.

I believe Bryant has more to do with his clock starting early and the Cubs getting into increased payroll before they can handle it.

The whole 3B D is lesser is just an excuse and his SO is an excuse. He is leading his league in most stats. Pointing out a flaw is just dumb in view of it.


I've been saying to promote Watkins for a while now. His OBA alone should be playing on this team.

Right now:
Watkins 2B
Lake CF
Rizzo 1B
Castro SS
Valbuena 3B
Ruggiano LF
Schierholtz RF
Catcher

That is what I would be running. They should have let Sweeney rehab naturally. They did not need another bottom of the order LH bat. They already had 2 in Cog and Schierholtz.

Back to Bryant:

I would play him in AAA until the super 2 cut off next year. He is not going to save this season.
 
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