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nwfisch

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Cardinals are calling up their first round pick from 2013, Marco Gonzales to help out with the rotation.

For all of the fretting I heard over Super Two status, one of the best organizations in baseball doesn't seem to care too much about that.
 
dabynsky

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nwfisch said:
Cardinals are calling up their first round pick from 2013, Marco Gonzales to help out with the rotation.

For all of the fretting I heard over Super Two status, one of the best organizations in baseball doesn't seem to care too much about that.
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You're kidding right? They sent Oscar Taveras back down to avoid super two status, and at this point Gonzales is unlikely to qualify for Super 2.
 
nwfisch

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dabynsky said:
You're kidding right? They sent Oscar Taveras back down to avoid super two status, and at this point Gonzales is unlikely to qualify for Super 2.
Click to expand...

Maybe. :shrug:

I honestly read the super two status thing on Fangraphs about 5 times and I don't get it. Basically what I gleam is that team's control a player for 3 years instead of 4.
 
dabynsky

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Monk316 said:
I don't even know what super 2 is. Sorry Fischer of Men
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Baseball roster rules are somewhat complicated, but basically the first six years a major league team controls a player they call up. So all teams play games to maximize the amount of control and how cheap each player is.

Super 2 is a percentage of players with the most service time over two years. Players in that group get four years of arbitration instead of three. This dramatically increases the cost of players since arbitration is the first real raises players get (Those first years guys basically get league minimum and have zero say in salary). So many teams will keep their elite guys in the minors until June/July to try to avoid them getting their extra year of arbitration. The catch is that since it is based on percentage of player there is no hard cutoff day and it is just guessing done by front offices.
 

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Cuz, the Cards don't have the payroll that the Cubs have...... :nervous:
 
nwfisch

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Thanks Dabs...I just think it gets frustrating waiting for Bryant.

[video=youtube;uMyCa35_mOg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMyCa35_mOg[/video]
 
dabynsky

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nwfisch said:
Thanks Dabs...I just think it gets frustrating waiting for Bryant.

[video=youtube;uMyCa35_mOg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMyCa35_mOg[/video]
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It is, but I also think an aspect of this that doesn't get talked enough about is Rizzo. Hoyer has said that he called him up too soon in San Diego. I think the Cubs are super cautious about calling up guys they view as long term pieces because they want the learning curve to be as shallow as possible.
 

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nwfisch said:
Cardinals are calling up their first round pick from 2013, Marco Gonzales to help out with the rotation.

For all of the fretting I heard over Super Two status, one of the best organizations in baseball doesn't seem to care too much about that.
Click to expand...

The easiest way to think about super two is you get one less freebie year of around 500k and instead an additional arbitration year. Any player will be making substantially more in arb 1 than the 500k. However the real impact is the final year of arbitration. In many cases, that may not matter. For example, take a case like Barney. I think he'll be in arb 3 if i'm remembering right. However, given his play and given he may be in the $3-4 mil range after this year he's probably going to get non-tendered.

In the case of the cards, they are calling Marco Gonzales up for different reasons. It's not a case where they just think he's ready. Maybe they think he's close but the thing is they just lost Wacha and Garcia. If both were healthy he's still in the minors. So, chances are they will send him back down later in the year thus removing some of his service time. Even if he stays up it's difficult to say if he'll reach super 2 status. And additionally, they can play around with things by sending him down to the minors most of next year as well.

Then there's the aspect of where they are record wise and where the cubs are is 2 different stories. That being said, this talk from Theo about not expecting Bryant in the majors this year troubles me. I'm on record as saying here that I thought they would bring him up in August. They can easily do that without much worry of super two. So I really don't get it. They must not think he'll be ready. Granted he's struggled a little in AAA to start but not that bad considering he had a .000 BABIP.
 
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Well, Bryant hit his 5th today. Also, I always hear this Hoyer brought up Rizzo to soon. Did he really? Rizzo's main problem when he came up was his mechanics were funky. He legitimately couldnt catch up to a 93 plus MPH fastball. Then, he changed his hands that sit a lot lower then they did with the Padres. He had a good year when he did that. Then, he got into some funky stuff again last year. He changed his hands again and he was getting abused by lefties and hard breaking balls by righties. I feel the only reason he progressed so much was because he played in the majors and learned what he needed to do. His true adjustments came from seeing real major league pitching. So, maybe he was brought up to early but it seemed to help him in the long run.

Bryant has a similar approach as Rizzo. He is a patient hitter with tons of power. He will most likely have a higher K rate then Rizzo, but their approach to hitting is quite similar. Bryant should see time in the majors this year. The only reason I see them not bringing up him or Baez is because they dont want fans thinking they will start next season on the team. Thats the only reason I see it.
 
CSF77

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Time will tell.

Right now if they brought him up this year would not count against his service time. His clock would start on opening day next year. That is free service time also.

The only thing I see holding them back is it is just too sudden right after a promotion to AAA. He is hitting HR's but he has not been doing all of the other stuff he did in AA.

Give it a week or 2 and see how he progresses.
 
chibears55

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CSF77 said:
Time will tell.

Right now if they brought him up this year would not count against his service time. His clock would start on opening day next year. That is free service time also.

The only thing I see holding them back is it is just too sudden right after a promotion to AAA. He is hitting HR's but he has not been doing all of the other stuff he did in AA.

Give it a week or 2 and see how he progresses.
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best time to call them up would be right after the break.. bryant would have around 100 PA by then in Iowa and it would be a good time to adjust their roster.

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I wouldn't mind if they called him up early August. That gives him a chance to 50 play games August 8 would be ideal, him at home right after the trade deadline.
 
CSF77

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chibears55 said:
best time to call them up would be right after the break.. bryant would have around 100 PA by then in Iowa and it would be a good time to adjust their roster.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I would wait and see how AAA adapts to him and see him sustain domination until Sept. Not 100 AB's. That is not enough time for anything.

After the season at Iowa, ends then see where he is at.

I would be watching Alcantara and Baez right now.

Last 10 games:
Alcantara .412/.500/.588
Baez: .289/.750/.500

Those 2 going on a 2-3 week hot spell should net them a promotion.

All star break ends July 17. I'm seeing that 2 week span that the Cubs start to off load what ever they can pawn off. At that point the roster should turn over.

I'm not too sure about Bryant though. If he is putting up production like he did in Tenn it would be hard pressed to hold him back.

But I'm seeing Hammel out first. Wada first promoted.
Shark next and Hendricks promoted next.
Bonifacio traded Alcantara promoted.

Those 3 I would put at 90% most likely scenario.

Wavers: I see Barney, Schierholtz, Jackson all placed on Wavers. Barney should get grabbed up. At that point I see Baez promoted. Aug some time. Schierholtz I believe they just let him clear and release him.

At that point they could promote Bryant but not sure still. They could just promote Vitters also and give him a shot before cutting him off of the 40 man.

I just believe that they will try to next the most service time here with Bryant. I believe he will get very costly very fast. Like 100 mil costly.
 

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Gonzales was called up to make two, possibly three starts. Then he'll be back down.
 
Boobaby1

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TL1961 said:
Gonzales was called up to make two, possibly three starts. Then he'll be back down.
Click to expand...

In reference to the OP, the Cardinals 1st round pick and #19 overall in 2012 was Michael Wacha and in 2013 was Marco Gonzales. It amazes me that within one year, they were in the majors.

We know about Wacha and I know Gonzales will be sent back, but it's not as if he wasn't dominating A+ this year with a .143 ERA, and a 2.22 ERA in AA. They just keep plugging out prospects and make it look so easy. :yep:
 
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