A Serious Carmelo Offer - 4yrs $90M

ZOMBIE@CTESPN

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He is worth every penny. And if it is done and doesn't work out it will still be worth every penny. We got to get that stigma off the bulls that we are cheap and won't do whatever it takes. I know there are a million examples but it's different when you get that superstar spurning multiple teams for you
 

Thunderfoot

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I didn't hear any numbers out of the Anthony camp either. So, Mr. 'Money isn't Important, I just want to Win' was wasting our time maybe. I know many of you wanted him bad, and he can score blindfolded and all that stuff.....I think the guy is a loser.
 

Xplosive

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Can't happen. The Knicks would be taking to much money back and that would put them over the apron, thus they could not do the deal.
So you are saying that the Knicks can sign Carmelo for 5yrs $129M, meaning his first year salary is about $21M, but somehow they couldn't do a sign and trade with the Bulls and take back that same $21M in salaries???

Please explain your math, and if you are correct tell me how much money they CAN accept.
 

czman

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So you are saying that the Knicks can sign Carmelo for 5yrs $129M, meaning his first year salary is about $21M, but somehow they couldn't do a sign and trade with the Bulls and take back that same $21M in salaries???

Please explain your math, and if you are correct tell me how much money they CAN accept.

If a team is over the apron they cannot take a player back in a sign and trade. This goes both ways. The Bulls could not take a player in a sign and trade if it put them over the apron. I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head. Both teams will need to be below the Apron. Also if the Bulls are planning on bringing the Euro kid over they need to keep his salary below the apron too or the Bulls cannot use the MLE on him. They can only use the smaller MLE, and I don't think he will be willing to do that.
 

Xplosive

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If a team is over the apron they cannot take a player back in a sign and trade. This goes both ways. The Bulls could not take a player in a sign and trade if it put them over the apron.
The luxury tax threshold is $77M, the Apron is $4M above that, and after getting rid of Chandler the Knicks are at $66M so they aren't over the apron. Neither are the Bulls.
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/cap/

EDIT-
Bleacher Report puts the Luxury Threshold at $70M and the "apron" at $4M above that. either way neither the Knicks or Bulls are above the apron.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1656251-idiots-guide-to-the-new-nba-free-agency-rules
 

Xplosive

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A little more detailed.

The Apron

Now, above the luxury tax is a spending category that severely restricts a team's ability to acquire new players.

This "apron" kicks in at $4 million above the luxury tax level.

Teams that operate below the apron retain all the player-acquisition rights of any franchise that is over the cap. But teams over the apron forfeit several of the most tried-and-true ways teams have used to improve:

They cannot engage in sign-and-trade deals.

They cannot use the biannual exception (which has allowed teams to sign a player with a first-year salary around $2 million in recent years).

They can still use the mid-level exception, but it becomes a "mini mid-level exception." The tool that once allowed over-the-cap teams to sign players to a league-average salary (around $5 million in recent years) now becomes much less enticing (falling to around $3 million).
No where does it say a team below the Apron is restricted from signing and trading for a player if it puts them above the apron.
 

Xplosive

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Starting in 2013-14, teams cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 90) if their team salary is above the apron at the conclusion of the trade.
Starting in 2013-14, the team receiving the player cannot be above the "apron" ($4 million above the tax level) after the trade
So neither the Knicks or Bulls can be over $81M after the S&T....

Subtract Boozer and the Bulls go down to $53M and the ability to S&T up to $28M to reach the Apron. Knicks can currently take back $15M before they hit the Apron.

Easy Solution = Melo @ $20M + Jr Smith @ $6M (+$26M) to the Bulls ... Boozer +$4M (+$21M) in contracts + 2 1st round Picks to the Knicks.

Bulls will of course amnesty Jr. Smith.
 

czman

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So neither the Knicks or Bulls can be over $81M after the S&T....

Subtract Boozer and the Bulls go down to $53M and the ability to S&T up to $28M to reach the Apron. Knicks can currently take back $15M before they hit the Apron.

Easy Solution = Melo @ $20M + Jr Smith @ $6M (+$26M) to the Bulls ... Boozer +$4M (+$21M) in contracts + 2 1st round Picks to the Knicks.

Bulls will of course amnesty Jr. Smith.

2 things.

1) Smith cannot be amnestied.

2) The Bulls don't need to do all that. The Bull can easily bring Melo in for ~18 mill to start, if they send Boozer out. That plus a bunch of first should get the Knicks to move. The real question is does Melo want to take any pay cut? Does Melo want to take only 4 years? If Melo wants to come, are the Bulls willing to give up 1/2/3/4 first round picks to make it happen? Are the Bulls willing to do what it takes, or is this all just we want Melo, but only if he takes less money and the Knicks bend over backwards. That is what none of know.
 

Xplosive

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2 things.

1) Smith cannot be amnestied.

2) The Bulls don't need to do all that. The Bull can easily bring Melo in for ~18 mill to start, if they send Boozer out. That plus a bunch of first should get the Knicks to move. The real question is does Melo want to take any pay cut? Does Melo want to take only 4 years? If Melo wants to come, are the Bulls willing to give up 1/2/3/4 first round picks to make it happen? Are the Bulls willing to do what it takes, or is this all just we want Melo, but only if he takes less money and the Knicks bend over backwards. That is what none of know.
1. Damn.

2. $18M puts him with a $80M contract which is the point of my original post. You can't expect someone to lose $6M per year on average just to chase a ring. It may not be only about money but that doesn't mean I'm taking a 25% discount to leave my hometown and be hated, for something that isn't a gurantee. That's not realistic. The Bulls will need that to come up with more than $80M when the Lakers are offering $96M and the Knicks $129M.

Common sense would make anyone reject that Bulls offer.
 

czman

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If the Bulls over 80 million over 4 that is only ~4 million less a season. I know 4 million over 4 years is a lot of money. If Melo won't take that he won't take it. To do anything more the Bulls would have to find someone to take Smith. Bulls can throw in the garbage contracts to the Knicks and someone else can have Smith.

A long time ago I said the Bulls would only be able to pay Melo 50-60 million less than the Knicks. I also said the Bulls had the hardest road, because they have less cap space and were constrained by the sign and trade rules.

The Rockets/Mavericks/Knicks/Lakers are all in a better position to get Melo. I have actually typed this multiple times.
 

Xplosive

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If the Bulls over 80 million over 4 that is only ~4 million less a season. I know 4 million over 4 years is a lot of money. If Melo won't take that he won't take it. To do anything more the Bulls would have to find someone to take Smith. Bulls can throw in the garbage contracts to the Knicks and someone else can have Smith.

A long time ago I said the Bulls would only be able to pay Melo 50-60 million less than the Knicks. I also said the Bulls had the hardest road, because they have less cap space and were constrained by the sign and trade rules.

The Rockets/Mavericks/Knicks/Lakers are all in a better position to get Melo. I have actually typed this multiple times.
The Bulls are not competing with the Lakers, they are Competing with the Knicks. 5 years $130M is $26M > 4 years $20M aka $6M per year difference. The Bulls can offer the same amount the Lakers offer if they do the sign and trade, its just whether they really want to do it.

The Bulls had to either be stupid or this was a dog and pony show. No way was Melo going to take $6M less nor would any other player unless he's already over the hill and chasing dreams.
 

JimJohnson

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Yeah, the Bulls put on an all day show for the fans. Same fans who are gonna be at games despite the outcome of not signing Melo, even if JimJohnson claims the Bulls won't have fans.... You can't be this dumb

Starting to think you have a position within the Bulls FO. I've never seen a bigger fucking apologist for front office weakness in my life.
 

Celks

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1. Damn.

2. $18M puts him with a $80M contract which is the point of my original post. You can't expect someone to lose $6M per year on average just to chase a ring. It may not be only about money but that doesn't mean I'm taking a 25% discount to leave my hometown and be hated, for something that isn't a gurantee. That's not realistic. The Bulls will need that to come up with more than $80M when the Lakers are offering $96M and the Knicks $129M.

Common sense would make anyone reject that Bulls offer.

Agreed with what you said but with Melo being the face of Jordans right now in the NBA, he could easily make the $6m plus more in endorsements that he would be leaving on the table. Melo isnt just loved in NY, he is loved everywhere and he would get more recognition for Jordans being in Chicago then NY, my opinion of course. He would be getting more then enough money through both salary and endorsements. I think his family wanting to be in NY is a bigger factor then Jackson offering max salary.
 

czman

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The Bulls are not competing with the Lakers, they are Competing with the Knicks. 5 years $130M is $26M > 4 years $20M aka $6M per year difference. The Bulls can offer the same amount the Lakers offer if they do the sign and trade, its just whether they really want to do it.

The Bulls had to either be stupid or this was a dog and pony show. No way was Melo going to take $6M less nor would any other player unless he's already over the hill and chasing dreams.

You are the one that brought up the Knicks not me.

The 5th year is the highest so if you count the first 4 years of the deal it is actually closer to 5 million per year just under 5 actually. Melo's 5th year with the Bulls (first year of resign) could be more than the 5th year with the Knicks.

The point still remains though:
A long time ago I said the Bulls would only be able to pay Melo 50-60 million less than the Knicks. I also said the Bulls had the hardest road, because they have less cap space and were constrained by the sign and trade rules.
 

Anytime45

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Starting to think you have a position within the Bulls FO. I've never seen a bigger fucking apologist for front office weakness in my life.

I am and im very upset that fans dont go to our games.
 

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