David Price

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chibears55

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I think alot of players feels the same as he does about winning with the cubs and how great that would be.
They got a glimpse of the atmosphere and craziness with the fans in 2003, probably times that by 100 being in a world series and 100 more if they win.

Seriously have to think the players on that team would be as big or bigger then the 85 bears..

But back to reality, it will be interesting to see in a couple years the interest in FAs possibly wanting to sign with cubs when the young core starts to gel and if everything clicks the way we hope
 

CSF77

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I would trade Russell and Vogelbach with Pierce to start.

If he wants to be a Cub then spend in talent then after pay up a 150 mil extend.

Lester is another strong option. To be honest I'm not sure which would be the better investment.

Regardless Vogelbach is blocked. Pierce Johnson I see as a 3-4 not a TOR. They got Russell for Shark. So flipping Russell for Price who would extend. Solid move for a long term ace.
 

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So, IOW, they were right there in it and instead of trading away pieces, they made sure Price was there to help them out. Yeah. Sounds worthless.:bizarro:

We don't need to agree, however Epstein is on record as hoping that this is the last year they are obvious sellers at the trade deadline. That means he either expects to be somewhat competitive next season or he blew smoke up your skirt.

My point was they are paying him an extra 20 million and they didn't make the playoffs. I'm not saying it's worthless, it's just a huge price to pay for not making the playoffs.

I know Theo said that and I don't think they will sell next year, however, I also don't think we'll be in contention. Obviously I'd love to be wrong, but we are a long way from winning as we stand right now and to think that Bryant, Baez, Soler?, Alcantara, and whoever else will be what they think they will be next year, is wrong.

I understand the importance of holding baez n bryant down til May 2015.

my thing is how would that affect the off season as far as not knowing for sure what positions baez n bryant are going to play, even Alcantara...

not knowing for sure where they will play between 2B,3B,CF, and RF means your not sure of what position player to go for in off season.

Also not having them start the season means you need to add 2 extra players to opening day roster and then do what release them when they promote come may ?

I just think it would be better for the team to bring them up now and start figuring out who gonna play where and let them all (the core) get used to playing with one another in Castillo, Rizzo, Baez, Castro, and Bryant. Deal with contract stuff when that time comes in 6 yrs, if their that good their gonna be extending them before then anyways.

I think it's more around early July. Under the next CBA it's top 22% with 2+, whereas under the old one it was 17%.

I could see them having them all start the season with the team. But if that's the case, we should see call ups now. I think it's more realistic to see them up around Super 2 time next year. I wish I had a better idea of what they were going to do, because I can see it playing out in several different scenarios.

As far as their placeholders, I think you use Olt, Villanueva, Valbuena if he's still here, Vitters, BJax, Ruggiano, Sweeney, etc.

It's easy to say deal with that contract stuff when it comes up now, but when it does come up, no one is going to like having to pay them ridiculous amounts of money. They have to monitor this stuff now, so it doesn't become an issue down the road.

Waah.

If the third largest market in baseball can't pay allegedly premier talent, then this rebuild isn't going to work.

Who says we can't pay them?

Again, why overspend if we don't have to? It just means another piece we can add to the puzzle.

It would cost the Cubs Baez for starters, and a whole lot more. Frankly, I'd rather pay for Lester and keep the farm in tact to be able to use them down the road for trading purposes.

The Cubs could give Lester basically Tanaka's money (maybe a little more), pick up Hammel in the off season, and be right back where they were this year with a legit TOR arm.

They could pick up a corner outfielder, and still stay way under 100 million in payroll while the kids earn their places on the team.

Resigning Hammel seems like a bad idea. He's going to be 32 and want at least 3 years. He's going to get it too. I think there are better options out there for us.
 

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It's easy to say deal with that contract stuff when it comes up now, but when it does come up, no one is going to like having to pay them ridiculous amounts of money. They have to monitor this stuff now, so it doesn't become an issue down the road.

The fact that contracts for allegedly elite players are an issue for a team in Chicago is truly pathetic.

If Kris Bryant is ready to play, he's allegedly a game-changing talent, let him play. I promise Tommy Nickels, the Cubs will make more than $20M if (when) they make the Playoffs.

I didn't see Angel fans whining and crying and throwing their sippy cups over promoting Trout and promptly extending him.
 

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I would rather use Hendricks at 500K. Jackson will cost 11 mil. Travis Wood got paid 3,900,000 in arb 1. That is a good number for Arrieta. I see no more than 5 mil for Wood. He took a step back this year.

That puts 4/5th's of the rotation at 20 mil aprox. Add 20 mil for either Lester or Price 40 mil total cost to the rotation or an avg of 8 mil per starter.

Not bad if you think of it that way.

If you go with Hammel it bumps the avg starter cost to 10 mil at least.

Not to mention career wise Hammel's numbers have mirrored Jackson's. Jackson is performing below his avg Hammel performed above his avg. But as we saw with Wood. A 1 year improvement is not making a strong case for continued success. You have to go with his career avg when projecting future production.
 

chibears55

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Cubs are not bringing Hammel back...
They took a shot on a vet starter with a so so career on a 1 yr deal hoping hed have a good enough first half to flip..
The shot paid off , their not going to press their luck even further by now bringing him back on a longer term deal for more money.

Not worth the risk , better off giving that opportunity to one of their own
 

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The fact that contracts for allegedly elite players are an issue for a team in Chicago is truly pathetic.

If Kris Bryant is ready to play, he's allegedly a game-changing talent, let him play. I promise Tommy Nickels, the Cubs will make more than $20M if (when) they make the Playoffs.

I didn't see Angel fans whining and crying and throwing their sippy cups over promoting Trout and promptly extending him.

Mike Trout is also the best player in baseball. But even with Trout, the Angels avoided Super 2. Sure, they extended him, but in extensions like that they use estimates of what that player would make in arbitration. That's why next year Trout is only making $5.25 Mil.

Adding Bryant doesn't make this team a playoff team.

Contracts are an issue for just about every team except maybe the Yankees. I don't understand how you don't grasp that.
 

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You mean you wouldn't give up Jackson wood barney and Sweeney for him ?

Who wouldn't give up their piles of trash for a legit top 10 starter in the game? The question would be "Who drugged the TB FO so that they would accept the deal?"

I would trade Russell and Vogelbach with Pierce to start.

...Vogelbach is blocked. Pierce Johnson I see as a 3-4 not a TOR. They got Russell for Shark. So flipping Russell for Price who would extend. Solid move for a long term ace.

And so Bryant or Baez is the part you are missing on this deal? Don;t care where Russell is rated, he ain't hit at AA or AAA yet and is not bringing you back a David Price IMO.

Regardless of how deep the Cubs minor league depth is, you aren't going to get a top flight pitcher without moving guys in your top three to five. The Cubs need to do that or overpay in FA for it. And then hope their back end prospects can be somebody. If that happens, it would appear the "plan" works.
 

CSF77

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Who wouldn't give up their piles of trash for a legit top 10 starter in the game? The question would be "Who drugged the TB FO so that they would accept the deal?"


And so Bryant or Baez is the part you are missing on this deal? Don;t care where Russell is rated, he ain't hit at AA or AAA yet and is not bringing you back a David Price IMO.

Regardless of how deep the Cubs minor league depth is, you aren't going to get a top flight pitcher without moving guys in your top three to five. The Cubs need to do that or overpay in FA for it. And then hope their back end prospects can be somebody. If that happens, it would appear the "plan" works.

Russell is ranked #3 now on the Cubs. And that is arguable he could be #2 behind Bryant now.

Regardless as far as a complete package SS Russell is better than Baez.

As far as a Power hitter few major leaguers much less minor league hitters have Baez's bat speed.

As far as SS are concerned I rank it Lindor than Russell. Baez IMO is a better projection at 2B.

Regarding TB.

They have 1 year past this one of control. The highest resale would be to a contender. The top buyers are in the AL. Which means they would have to help their next year competition. That did not stop them with Shields.

Speaking of Shields he would be another to target.

Regardless trading to the NL would be more benifical to the Rays than the AL.

In terms of value: A top 10 prospect and 2 adds. Equaled 1.5 years of control of Shark and .5 years of Hammel. Basically a major league 2 and a 4.

Russell, Vogelbach and Johnson are equal in value to what netted Shark and Hammel.

Now here is the question?

What is Price's value (control not past his control) to the control value that the A's paid for Shark and Hammel?
 

brett05

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Russell is ranked #3 now on the Cubs. And that is arguable he could be #2 behind Bryant now.

Regardless as far as a complete package SS Russell is better than Baez.

As far as a Power hitter few major leaguers much less minor league hitters have Baez's bat speed.

Which is why a team is going to want Baez over Russell. Like I said, Russell hasn't proven anything yet. He could though, no doubt about it. I think the pecking order would be Baez, Castro and then Russell for a team wanting a SS from the Cubs.
 

CSF77

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Which is why a team is going to want Baez over Russell. Like I said, Russell hasn't proven anything yet. He could though, no doubt about it. I think the pecking order would be Baez, Castro and then Russell for a team wanting a SS from the Cubs.

I would rank it Castro first. He is a proven commodity.

Baez and Russell are a toss up.

Baez said himself he starts cold. Add to it he really started cold in the cold weather of Iowa. He seems to have A-Ram's curse right now.

It should benefit him playing in Fla and near to P.R.

IDK to me it would be a toss up. Sure Baez can thump 40 but they already have light tower power in Bryant and Soler. For a balanced attack it might be better long term with Russell.
 

brett05

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I would rank it Castro first. He is a proven commodity.

Baez and Russell are a toss up.

Baez said himself he starts cold. Add to it he really started cold in the cold weather of Iowa. He seems to have A-Ram's curse right now.

It should benefit him playing in Fla and near to P.R.

IDK to me it would be a toss up. Sure Baez can thump 40 but they already have light tower power in Bryant and Soler. For a balanced attack it might be better long term with Russell.
For the Cubs or for a trade chip?
 

CSF77

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Depends.

If you are talking about a youth project trade Castro for a unknown high projection.

If you want a proven TOR you base it around a top ended prospect.

It is very rare to see major league players traded for others and minor league players traded for other minor league players.

The only time you see a major league for a major league is in larger pack deals with kids added in or a bad contract for a bad contract..

For the Cubs:

At SS I would stick with Castro. He is on 3k hit projection and is a proven.

Russell would be my trade bait because he is in AA while Baez is closer. He is my 2B projection. Alcantara is my CF projection.

That leaves Russell, Almora and Vogelbach my top trade chips.
 

CSF77

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Looking at some stats this year:

Castro 373 AB 103 Hits 26 2B 11 HR 52 RBI .276/.326/.440 25 BB
Longoria 373 AB 96 hits 13 2B 11 HR 44 RBI .257/.333/.386 39 BB

To be honest Castro is the better hitter this year. Longoria only is taking BB at a higher rate.
 

brett05

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Looking at some stats this year:

Castro 373 AB 103 Hits 26 2B 11 HR 52 RBI .276/.326/.440 25 BB
Longoria 373 AB 96 hits 13 2B 11 HR 44 RBI .257/.333/.386 39 BB

To be honest Castro is the better hitter this year. Longoria only is taking BB at a higher rate.


True,
But now isn't that a comparison of someone's best year versus someone's worst year?
 

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I would make the move.

But I am not willing to send anyone named Bryant, Baez or Russell, and I am guessing Soler, Schwarber, and others won't get it done.

He would also need to sign a 4-5 year extension.
 

nwfisch

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Contracts are an issue for just about every team except maybe the Yankees.

They are? I didn't hear the Sox fans throwing their sippy cups when they signed Abreu. I don't see Dodger fans whining and crying over contracts. The only team(s) I really see whining and crying over contracts and payroll are the As and the Rays, which not by coincidence, those teams haven't won a World Series under current administrations.

But we know, if the Cubs make it an issue its OK because Cubs and stuffz :fap:
 

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There's already been talk of him losing his stuff. Sure he might be compensating in other ways but you have to wonder what his trajectory is and whether ther is any chance his good years sync up with the timeline of Baez, Bryant, etc.

I'd trade Castro for him though.
 
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