brett05
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We talk about it all the time
Bear Pride
Bears Gonna Shock the World!
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Thanks for pointing out all those facts!
Bear Pride
Bears Gonna Shock the World!
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Now that can't be true now, can it, cuz you're HERE, NOW, on the Cubs MB, right?
brett05
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Bear Pride
Bears Gonna Shock the World!
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No shit. Are Cubs fans not supposed to be hopeful of the future? The kicker, for me, is that Sox fans are throwing all this BS around, and THEIR TEAM SUCKS TOO! I mean, if they were tearing up the league, it might make sense to brag a little.
They bitch about Cub fans, yet they can't get fans to fill their park. When the Sox start tearing up the MLB, and the Cubs continue to Lose, It might makes sense. But right now, their just full of a lot of hot air, cuz they're self conscience of their own team.
Bear Pride
Bears Gonna Shock the World!
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Well, for one thing, you've learned to keep your fuckin mouth closed before I make you look stupid again.
theberserkfury
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Yeah, I think this is the key... I don't think any Cubs fan here is happy that the team isn't winning/contending now... but besides/in addition to not giving the organization money (by going to games or buying merchandise or whatever), what exactly should we do?
It totally makes sense to be frustrated that they aren't trying to win now, but it seemed pretty obvious that this was going to be the strategy when the new regime came in... I think it may just be time to let go of that frustration (because none of us are gonna change what they're doing, especially since it seems like we're nearing the end of the tanking phase of the plan) and enjoy what few bright spots we have...
And please don't take this the wrong way Mongo because I have a ton of respect for your opinions and posts (especially when it comes to the Bears), but the "Boy Blunder" stuff makes you sound kind of childish... it seems beneath you...
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Everyone is an arm chair Quarterback. Everyone knows how to put a winner on the field, but yet, have no affiliation with the sport. Its funny.
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^ Somebody doesn't realize I ended the Cubs world series drought on MLB The Show 4 years ago
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My favorite teams
Yep. Z could break a Gatorade cooler with a single swing. If that's not proof he was better than Fergie, I don't know what else you need.
Mongo_76
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I think it eventually became obvious. But Theo and Rickets first season pressers said said something completely different. They both initially mentioned how every season is important.
Rickets said this:
"In his new role, Theo will be given the resources and opportunity to build a strong foundation and the winning culture that our organization and fans deserve."
Meanwhile he began immediately cutting payroll. Even guys on the other side of this argument agree that Rickets has not given Theo cash resources yet.
Then, Theo said this day-1:
"To me, baseball is better with tradition, baseball is better with history, baseball is better with fans who care, baseball is better in ballparks like this, baseball is better during the day. And baseball is, best of all, when you win,"
And this:
"Every opportunity to win is sacred," Epstein said. "It's sacred to us inside the organization and it should be sacred to the fans as well. They deserve our best efforts to do what we can to improve the club, and put the club in position to succeed in any given season."
Do you feel that he has stuck to this? Do you feel he put us in position to win in 2012? 2013? 2014? or did he do the opposite of trying to win?
And remember when Rickets said he believed we had a team that could make it to the playoffs right now? And then he traded away key members on that "playoff caliber" team?
This after Theo said this:
"Once you get in in October there's a legitimate chance to win the World Series."
Well. If you have a playoff caliber team and just making the playoffs means you have a legit chance to win the WS, then why blow it up?
I admit I initially bought into all this. But it became clear that they were not practicing what they preached. To me, for them to make these comments and then do something completely different is frustrating. Don't they in any way make you wonder why they didn't just shoot straight?
So you're right. Maybe I shouldn't call him boy blunder. But I certainly have been given the right to question whether this 2-year plan that has now stretched into 4 or 5 is actually for real. It'd be silly not to.
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You still have yet to address the fact that immediately after Theo Epstein said every season is sacred he said this:
Every single time parallel fronts or every season is sacred you can find a comment like that immediately following whether it was that or "there are no shortcuts" etc. Just because you stopped listening after hearing the words you wanted to hear doesn't change the entire statement that was made at the time.
brett05
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Just because that follows does not invalidate the comment prior
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The whole of what he says matters, and cherry picking lines distorts what was actually said. Example below:
Yes Theo Epstein said every season is sacred, but he also very clearly stated from the beginning that the focus was on the long term whether you choose to ignore those statements or not.
Mongo_76
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This makes no sense. This is clearly just another failed attempt at being an apologist for him.
Your saying that because he talked out of both sides of his mouth, I should ignore anything that he says that indicates he wants to win???
It doesn't make it Ok to bullshit people just because you throw in a "just kidding" in the fine print.
You are implying they are mutually exclusive.
They don't have to be.
Boobaby1
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He also said that he would not move the team forward by fan pressure, meaning he was sticking to what he thought was best for the team.
One might also translate that "every season is sacred", doesn't necessarily mean at the parent level. Albeit it's the one that matters most, but if you need BOTH to win in the long run, they are accomplishing one already, and have not made one single free agent long term move yet.
And yes, E-Jax was a mistake and even Theo knows it. However, it definitely wasn't a move to put the Cubs over the top. It was merely a passifier move to stabilize the rotation.
No biggie. It isn't as if he'd have been around anyways. He still eats innings, it's just that he is really horrible, especially for the money.
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The fine print is the words he said immediately after that sentence? It isn't like Theo Epstein then muttered that stuff under his breath. I am asking you to be a reasonable critical thinker and place equal weight on the statements that were made at the exact same time instead of picking the words you want to hear.
Give me an example of a team that has rebuilt a farm system as quickly as the Cubs have under these conditions and competed at the major league level to prove that statement.
Mongo_76
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My point is that winning NOW is not mutually exclusive from building a sustained winning team.
The goal of every season should be to win. Not to build a farm...
Mongo_76
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Again. You're missing the point. He said "every opportunity to win is sacred". Can we agree that this means the Cubs should try to win?
If so, nothing he has done since saying that jives with that.
Even if right after, he said "winning longterm is sacred",it does not mean it's OK to contradict the first thing he said. It doesn't make it OK to tank seasons. More. winning long term does not HAVE to mean throwing seasons.
Again. Many many teams build successful long-term winning organizations without tanking.
Btw, after he said the above, contrary to what you have said, Theo didn't mention long term anything. He actually said "It's sacred to us inside the organization and it should be sacred to the fans as well. They deserve our best efforts to do what we can to improve the club, and put the club in position to succeed in any given season."
More horsehit...
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