Cavs Sign Marion

czman

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clonetrooper264 said:
Was more making an Anytime23 reference than anything, but idk how you can call Waiters any worse a floor spacer than Marion. Waiters I believe shot 38% last season which even if it was an abnormality is just as much so as Marion's 36%. Marion is only a 33% shooter from 3 for his career and 30% in the last 5 years.
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Well we can agree to disagree if you want. Marion is going to be the guy in the weak side corner spacing the floor. Right now the Cavs don't have that corner 3 guy.

Waiters and Irving are not guys who like to (or have) operated out of the corner. Love, if they bring him in is not a corner 3 guy either.

Waiters 19% of his 3s come from the corner and he shot 322 for his career.
Irving 12% of his 3s come from the corner and he shot 354 for his career.
Love 9% of his 3s come from the corner and he shot 423 for his career.

Someone needs to go stand in the corner.
Marion 47% of his 3s come from the corner and he shot 356 for his career.

Marion bring the guy who for 15-20 minutes a game will space the floor in the corner, defend, and have the versatility to play 3/4.

I don't think Marion is going to be a an all-star. I think he is going to provide something the Cavs didn't have and has real benefit. A two way player who can shot the ball and will stand in the corner and wait for the pass.

As far as Waiters 3 point %. We expect a higher % from a SG then a 3/4. Backup 4s don't usually shoot 358. Waiters shot 368. I think If they both shoot the same Marion will be a very positive asset.

I will be honest though, I did not watch much Mavericks basketball last season. He may have taken a large step backwards. If he can shoot ~35% from 3 and defend, he will have plenty of value.
 
clonetrooper264

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czman said:
Well we can agree to disagree if you want. Marion is going to be the guy in the weak side corner spacing the floor. Right now the Cavs don't have that corner 3 guy.

Waiters and Irving are not guys who like to (or have) operated out of the corner. Love, if they bring him in is not a corner 3 guy either.

Waiters 19% of his 3s come from the corner and he shot 322 for his career.
Irving 12% of his 3s come from the corner and he shot 354 for his career.
Love 9% of his 3s come from the corner and he shot 423 for his career.

Someone needs to go stand in the corner.
Marion 47% of his 3s come from the corner and he shot 356 for his career.

Marion bring the guy who for 15-20 minutes a game will space the floor in the corner, defend, and have the versatility to play 3/4.

I don't think Marion is going to be a an all-star. I think he is going to provide something the Cavs didn't have and has real benefit. A two way player who can shot the ball and will stand in the corner and wait for the pass.

As far as Waiters 3 point %. We expect a higher % from a SG then a 3/4. Backup 4s don't usually shoot 358. Waiters shot 368. I think If they both shoot the same Marion will be a very positive asset.

I will be honest though, I did not watch much Mavericks basketball last season. He may have taken a large step backwards. If he can shoot ~35% from 3 and defend, he will have plenty of value.
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I don't want to dismiss Marion entirely because as you said I think he will bring value to the team and give them something that they otherwise would not have. Still, the fact remains that he is clearly past his prime (36 this year?) and he took a step back last year, averaging career lows in points per game and points per 36 minutes. His rebounding was also lower than his career average (though 7 boards at 35 is pretty good). Across the board his stats were basically the lowest of his career...which is understandable, but that's why I'm not expecting huge contributions from him. He'll have his moments and he'll be in a good role to still be effective, but I don't think he'll necessarily be a difference maker.
 
ChiSoxCity

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Marion is a veteran player with playoff experience who understands the game, that's why LeBron wanted him on the team. All he needs to do is come off the bench and rebound, defend and take some high percentage shots.
 

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The guy really on the spot I think is that new coach. He has never coached in the NBA before. It is clear once again that Lebron is dictating things. In Miami they had a strong personality in Riley but in Cleveland? It'll be interesting the dynamics of that team.
 

JimJohnson

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The Hawk said:
The guy really on the spot I think is that new coach. He has never coached in the NBA before. It is clear once again that Lebron is dictating things. In Miami they had a strong personality in Riley but in Cleveland? It'll be interesting the dynamics of that team.
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If he sucks, he will be canned. And Calipari will be coaching the Cavs in a year or 2.
 
houheffna

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ChiSoxCity said:
You have to look at the big picture. Allowing LeBron to pull this crap whenever he feels like it undermines competitive balance in the game, and is bad for the NBA. I understand fans of LeBron don't have a problem with the NBA gift wrapping championships and Finals appearances for him. In the end, though, doing this will make his greatness on the court merely a side show to his power to manipulate the league, and that's what he'll be remembered for.
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That is what YOU will remember him for...those who pay attention will notice that he is one of the greatest players ever. And how is Marion going to Cleveland the league's fault? The problem is Lebron haters don't really have a reason to hate him so they make shit up. That is sad because its juvenile. Older players came to Chicago to play with Jordan EVERY DAMN YEAR....nobody had a problem with it, and I didn't see any complaints when John Salley signed with the Bulls. Players want to play with great players. Lebron is the best in the league...I don't see the problem.

Undermines the competitive balance of the game? What do you want...parity? This ain't the NFL...it doesn't work like that. Stars win titles. Again, you are reaching quite a bit. I wonder if you complained when the Bulls got Rodman or when the Rockets got Drexler...or even when the Lakers got Gasol? For some reason, I doubt it.
 
ChiSoxCity

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houheffna said:
That is what YOU will remember him for...those who pay attention will notice that he is one of the greatest players ever. And how is Marion going to Cleveland the league's fault? The problem is Lebron haters don't really have a reason to hate him so they make shit up. That is sad because its juvenile. Older players came to Chicago to play with Jordan EVERY DAMN YEAR....nobody had a problem with it, and I didn't see any complaints when John Salley signed with the Bulls. Players want to play with great players. Lebron is the best in the league...I don't see the problem.

Undermines the competitive balance of the game? What do you want...parity? This ain't the NFL...it doesn't work like that. Stars win titles. Again, you are reaching quite a bit. I wonder if you complained when the Bulls got Rodman or when the Rockets got Drexler...or even when the Lakers got Gasol? For some reason, I doubt it.
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So let me get this straight... you're ok with James wrecking teams, and undermining competitive balance because he's the "greatest player?" Sorry pal, but people like you are the reason LeBron is such a text-book narcissist. If he was so great, he wouldn't need Kevin Love on a team with FOUR #1 overall draft picks on it. He already has more talent around him than every other team in the NBA. Also, how many times is he going to up and leave a team that's built around him? Maybe he's not as great as he thinks he is.

And you act as if Jordan had big time players coming to help him win championships. That is such revisionist bullshit.
 
Kizzle

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I can't even entertain an argument about parity on this subject. We're talking about a team whose drafted top 5 four straight years that finally comes up off pure LUCK. That is parity in a nutshell. If you're mad at this Cavs team I'm just gonna assume you hate LeBron. Because for four years we've been total shit and a league laughing stock. You know what's not parity like 3 teams winning all the titles since 2000. The Cavs winning a ring would increase league parity because it would show that extremely small market teams can win rings.


I'm sorry but I can't even entertain a parity argument when I just watched my team take a total crap for the last 4 years. I can see if Lebron went to the Lakers. Ok I'd be pulling the parity card but c'mon Cavs haven't won one ring in its team history . It's about damn time we have the best team
 
houheffna

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ChiSoxCity said:
So let me get this straight... you're ok with James wrecking teams, and undermining competitive balance because he's the "greatest player?" Sorry pal, but people like you are the reason LeBron is such a text-book narcissist. If he was so great, he wouldn't need Kevin Love on a team with FOUR #1 overall draft picks on it. He already has more talent around him than every other team in the NBA. Also, how many times is he going to up and leave a team that's built around him? Maybe he's not as great as he thinks he is.

And you act as if Jordan had big time players coming to help him win championships. That is such revisionist bullshit.
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And you act like Marion is a big time player! And no, the Cavs are not the most talented team. There are a few teams in the west that are more talented and have more proven talent on a championship level. And just because a team has FOUR #1 draft picks doesn't mean they are talented players, at least not talented enough to win now. Lebron is 30...he isn't going to Cleveland to just entertain...he wants to win.

Evidently, you don't know what a narcissist is...go read up on Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan when you get a chance. Google some of Wilt Chamberlain's quotes. You have no clue what a narcissist is from your comments.
 
houheffna

houheffna

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Kizzle said:
I can't even entertain an argument about parity on this subject. We're talking about a team whose drafted top 5 four straight years that finally comes up off pure LUCK. That is parity in a nutshell. If you're mad at this Cavs team I'm just gonna assume you hate LeBron. Because for four years we've been total shit and a league laughing stock. You know what's not parity like 3 teams winning all the titles since 2000. The Cavs winning a ring would increase league parity because it would show that extremely small market teams can win rings.


I'm sorry but I can't even entertain a parity argument when I just watched my team take a total crap for the last 4 years. I can see if Lebron went to the Lakers. Ok I'd be pulling the parity card but c'mon Cavs haven't won one ring in its team history . It's about damn time we have the best team
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Parity won't happen in the NBA....period. And nobody screamed for parity in the 80's and 90's. Its just hate for Lebron run a muck.
 

JimJohnson

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houheffna is a Cavs fan now... he follows LBJ around as much as Brian Windhorst does.
 
houheffna

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JimJohnson said:
The only thing I know about LBJ's beer can is that you enjoy sitting on it.
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I would really enjoy you sticking your head back in your ass. The fact that you are dumb and bring nothing to the table...means you would be doing the world a favor.
 
ChiSoxCity

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houheffna said:
And you act like Marion is a big time player! And no, the Cavs are not the most talented team. There are a few teams in the west that are more talented and have more proven talent on a championship level. And just because a team has FOUR #1 draft picks doesn't mean they are talented players, at least not talented enough to win now. Lebron is 30...he isn't going to Cleveland to just entertain...he wants to win.

Evidently, you don't know what a narcissist is...go read up on Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan when you get a chance. Google some of Wilt Chamberlain's quotes. You have no clue what a narcissist is from your comments.
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I never said Marion is a big time player. You brough up the same old tired argument about Jordan getting gifted with quality players to help him win, which was simply not the case.

And you choose to ignore LeBron's narcissistic antics because "he's great at basketball." You obviously have no objectivity about this subject because you're a LeBron worshipping fan, just like the idiots who blindly support Kobe (yes, he is a narcissist too).

You totally missed my point about Cleveland's talent. LeBron is surrounded by more talent then any other superstar in the league (FOUR #1 overalls + one 4th overall). That pretty much makes them the most talented team in the league. No team in the east or west is even close. Even with the Love trade, he benefits from that talent, so it is still very relevant.

He's supposed to be the best, why is he constantly trying to build super teams with overwhelming advantages? Is he not strong enough to fail under the constraints of normally constructed teams? Why is he so obsessed with teaming up with stars and simply relegating them to role players to elevate his "greatness?" Text-book narcissism, that's why. And like narcissists, if the team fails to win a championship, he will blame everyone but himself and walk away thanks to that 1-year contract he so conveniently "committed" to. Commitment is simply not in LeBron's DNA.
 
houheffna

houheffna

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ChiSoxCity said:
I never said Marion is a big time player. You brough up the same old tired argument about Jordan getting gifted with quality players to help him win, which was simply not the case.

And you choose to ignore LeBron's narcissistic antics because "he's great at basketball." You obviously have no objectivity about this subject because you're a LeBron worshipping fan, just like the idiots who blindly support Kobe (yes, he is a narcissist too).

You totally missed my point about Cleveland's talent. LeBron is surrounded by more talent then any other superstar in the league (FOUR #1 overalls + one 4th overall). That pretty much makes them the most talented team in the league. No team in the east or west is even close. Even with the Love trade, he benefits from that talent, so it is still very relevant.

He's supposed to be the best, why is he constantly trying to build super teams with overwhelming advantages? Is he not strong enough to fail under the constraints of normally constructed teams? Why is he so obsessed with teaming up with stars and simply relegating them to role players to elevate his "greatness?" Text-book narcissism, that's why. And like narcissists, if the team fails to win a championship, he will blame everyone but himself and walk away thanks to that 1-year contract he so conveniently "committed" to. Commitment is simply not in LeBron's DNA.
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First and foremost...YOU shouldn't be calling anyone an idiot when it comes to basketball. People can go back and look at your historically dumb posts about Magic Johnson and you will lose all credibility.

So since you don't know shit about basketball, let me educate you. Magic, Bird, Isiah, Shaq, Duncan, Russell, Wilt, Jordan...what do they all have in common? They all won rings playing with great players. Some of them had 2, 3 HOFers on their rosters. Its how you win. But from your argument...you definitely wouldn't want Lebron, Melo, Durant or anyone on a high level in Chicago...because that just might be a superteam...right? Like Jordan had no business lobbying for all star caliber forwards to come to Chicago? He should never have approved of Rodman coming to Chicago because that essentially built a superteam and that is against your warped idea of parity in the NBA, right?

Every team in the league is trying to build a damn superteam! The Lakers failed at it, but people like you didn't complain then. Why? They had a good chance of beating Lebron. The Celtics did it, Lakers, Bulls, 76ers...on and on and on. Red Auerbach wanted superteams...he didn't give a damn about parity. Neither did Jerry West. Why should Lebron??? He has done nothing illegal. Give me a break.

That talented team you talk about didn't even make the playoffs last year. What makes them a superteam? Lebron James. Period.
 
Johnnyt237

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Super team?Jordan had to struggle for years and the Bulls were built through the draft or timely trade I.e. getting Bill Cartwright. Scottie, Horace, King, BJ, Paxon. The core from the first three peat. The old fashioned way. Toni was a draft pick. Rodman was on the outs in San Antonio and was traded. Ron Harper was left for dead and a reclaimation project after his injuries stopped his 20+ point all-star days. And really that is about it. You can not brong up sally he was a bench warmer and body. Jordan wanted to and beat other comtemporary stars like Barkley, Ewing, Stockton, Malone, Miller, etc. Not say hey guys lets team up. The 72-10 & 69-13 teams weren't built through fuckery but through keeping your homegrown talent drafting, signing,& trading well. In no way was anything we won in the 90s like the Heat & Lebron's currently ended run. If you think so you did not watch or were too young.
 
Scoot26

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You guys are silly with this LeBron hate. I don't like the guy either, but other than him basically being the GM in Cleveland, in which, who cares if he is. The only thing here is jealousy that the Bulls aren't able to do this at the moment.

Jordan wanted to beat other stars. Cool. LeBron wants to beat the San Antonio Spurs who just gave his last team an ass pounding, and he feels he needs a lot of help doing it. This is a change in era in which the players have more control than ever in what happens with a team.

The Bulls of the 90's are a super team. Jordan and Scottie Pippen are hall-of-famers. Rodman contributed greatly.

The Celtics of the 80's are a super team, built by ripping off other dumb owners/GMs with draft picks that worked out greatly for them. The only "legit" one they had was Larry Bird.

The Lakers of the 80's were similar. They got compensated in the 70's for letting an aging star go in free agency with 3 1st round picks, one of which turned into Magic Johnson. They then traded for a pick that ended up being the #1 pick in 82 and got Worthy.

The Lakers of the early 2000's were built on a massive free agency signing (Shaq) and a relatively unknown, but well scouted by Jerry West in Kobe Bryant in which he traded with the Charlotte Hornets to get him.

The Lakers of the late 2000's was built on Kobe already being a star and ripping off the Memphis Grizzlies (at the time) for in his prime Pau Gasol.

Jordan struggled for years in the league before finding success.

LeBron rotted away on a Cleveland team for 6 years before leaving. So its not like he doesn't know struggle, he just didn't stick through with it, because Cleveland was never going to do anything with that roster.
 

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Fuck Lebron. This isn't about a team signing some veteran players joining him in order to get a ring before their careers are over. It is about the collusion among NBA superstars. And the comparison to Jordan and company is a bunch of BS. Jordan didn't dictate to management the way Lebron does. Pretty much no one wanted Rodman when they brought him in. Hell, some of the Bulls hated the guy. Pippin, they traded in the draft to get him. In other words, they built a team via the draft while adding a few veteran fringe guys. Fuck Lebron.
 

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I do not think that these Lebron fanatics from Cleveland remember what an asshole that he was when he left Cleveland in the first place. And I doubt that the great majority of Bulls fans would be so easy to forgive someone who left the team in that way and then wants to return. I do not think that Bulls fans would do that.
 
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