Bears have third oldest roster in the NFL

WCL · Sep 1, 2014

BearsFan51 said:
Well considering Emery was supposed to help,rebuild this roster through the draft and this team has been in need of an overhaul to get younger and more talented I would call it a concern. You can't be on a cycle of three year windows and then completely rebuild one side of the ball as a result of age, it's a recipe for disaster.

On average it takes a team overhaul three years to come together and become fully relevant, in three years Marshall, Forte and Cutler may be completely irrelevant to this franchise while the defense is finally coming together with guys like Fuller Ferguson Sutton Bostic and Greene. Now you have to rebuild the offense with guys heading into the final year or two of their rookie contracts. It's not how you build to be dominant.

Okay, let's look at how Emery's put the team together. Here's how he acquired every guy on the roster:

INHERITED FROM ANGELO (9)
Roberto Garza
Lance Briggs
Charles Tillman
Robbie Gould
Jay Cutler
Tim Jennings
Matt Forte
Stephen Paea
Chris Conte

TRADE (3)
Brandon Marshall
Dante Rosario
Sherrick McManis

VET FREE AGENCY (21)
Jeremy Cain
Jeremiah Ratliff
Jared Allen
DJ Williams
Michael Spurlock
Santonio Holmes
Jermon Bushrod
Trevor Scott
Josh Morgan
Matthew Mulligan
Brian DeLaPuente
Ryan Mundy
Tony Fiametta
Matt Slauson
Willie Young
Martellus Bennett
Lamarr Houston
Jimmy Clauson
Shaun Draugn
Michael Ola
Danny McCray

DRAFT (16)
Kyle Long
Shea McClellin
Khaseem Green
Alshon Jeffrey
Cornelius Washington
David Fales
Jordan Mills
Jon Bostic
Pat O'Donnel
Charles Leno Jr.
Ego Ferguson
Will Sutton
Kyle Fuller
Brock Vereen
Ka'Deem Carey
Marquess Wilson

UDFA (3)
Senorise Perry
Christian Jones
Demontre Hurst

ROOKIE FREE AGENT (1)
David Bass

So in three seasons, Emery's added 20 players who were rookies when he signed them (that's 38% of the roster). The entire draft classes from 2013 and 2014 are on the roster. What more do you want?

And we know what you're about to do. You're gonna say "Yeah, but those guys suck" or "Yeah, we're supposed to be happy that McClellin's on the roster." In other words, you're gonna try to change the subject, because that's what you do when you make these ridiculous statements and people call you on it.

This thread has nothing to do with quality. It was about quantity. You didn't say, "Our good players are old. Sad face." You said, "Could have sworn we were trying to get younger. Instead we went from fifth oldest to third oldest. Another small window of opportunity I hope the defense doesn't blow it." You looked at one number with no regard to the quality of the players.

The reason the roster got older has nothing to do with an inability to draft the last three seasons. It's because there's only two players on the roster from Angelo's final three drafts*. Those failed draft picks had to be replaced with veterans. Those guys are automatically going to be older because anyone who is worth a shit will only be available after their first contract expires. That's why the roster has gotten older.

*In fact, there are only 3 players on the roster (Paea, Conte and Forte) who were drafted by the Bears from 2004-2011.

BearsFan51 · Sep 1, 2014

WCL said:
Okay, let's look at how Emery's put the team together. Here's how he acquired every guy on the roster:

INHERITED FROM ANGELO (9)
Roberto Garza
Lance Briggs
Charles Tillman
Robbie Gould
Jay Cutler
Tim Jennings
Matt Forte
Stephen Paea
Chris Conte

TRADE (3)
Brandon Marshall
Dante Rosario
Sherrick McManis

VET FREE AGENCY (21)
Jeremy Cain
Jeremiah Ratliff
Jared Allen
DJ Williams
Michael Spurlock
Santonio Holmes
Jermon Bushrod
Trevor Scott
Josh Morgan
Matthew Mulligan
Brian DeLaPuente
Ryan Mundy
Tony Fiametta
Matt Slauson
Willie Young
Martellus Bennett
Lamarr Houston
Jimmy Clauson
Shaun Draugn
Michael Ola
Danny McCray

DRAFT (16)
Kyle Long
Shea McClellin
Khaseem Green
Alshon Jeffrey
Cornelius Washington
David Fales
Jordan Mills
Jon Bostic
Pat O'Donnel
Charles Leno Jr.
Ego Ferguson
Will Sutton
Kyle Fuller
Brock Vereen
Ka'Deem Carey
Marquess Wilson

UDFA (3)
Senorise Perry
Christian Jones
Demontre Hurst

ROOKIE FREE AGENT (1)
David Bass

So in three seasons, Emery's added 20 players who were rookies when he signed them (that's 38% of the roster). The entire draft classes from 2013 and 2014 are on the roster. What more do you want?

And we know what you're about to do. You're gonna say "Yeah, but those guys suck" or "Yeah, we're supposed to be happy that McClellin's on the roster." In other words, you're gonna try to change the subject, because that's what you do when you make these ridiculous statements and people call you on it.

This thread has nothing to do with quality. It was about quantity. You didn't say, "Our good players are old. Sad face." You said, "Could have sworn we were trying to get younger. Instead we went from fifth oldest to third oldest. Another small window of opportunity I hope the defense doesn't blow it." You looked at one number with no regard to the quality of the players.

The reason the roster got older has nothing to do with an inability to draft the last three seasons. It's because there's only two players on the roster from Angelo's final three drafts*. Those failed draft picks had to be replaced with veterans. Those guys are automatically going to be older because anyone who is worth a shit will only be available after their first contract expires. That's why the roster has gotten older.

*In fact, there are only 3 players on the roster (Paea, Conte and Forte) who were drafted by the Bears from 2004-2011.

Wait, so how many players are left on the roster from Emery's first draft?

WCL · Sep 1, 2014

BearsFan51 said:
Wait, so how many players are left on the roster from Emery's first draft?

So that's all you've got? I give you that much info, and that's all you can come up with? There's two guys (out of six) left from his first draft (that happened three months after he was hired, by the way).

He's added 20 rookies in three years. 38% of the rosters are players he's added as rookies. And you're bitching that he's not building the roster through the draft. That's what you need to concentrate on.

Once again, you're not more qualified to be the GM of the Bears than Phil Emery. I know that you're upset about the fact that they passed you over for the job, but you need to get over it. There's no reason for you to hate a guy you've never met just because he was given a job that you are in no way qualified for. It's delusional that you're still pissed about that.

BearsFan51 · Sep 1, 2014

WCL said:
So that's all you've got? I give you that much info, and that's all you can come up with? There's two guys left from his first draft (that happened three months after he was hired, by the way).

He's added 20 rookies in three years. 38% of the rosters are players he's added as rookies. And you're bitching that he's not building the roster through the draft. That's what you need to concentrate on.
W
Once again, you're not more qualified to be the GM of the Bears than Phil Emery. I know that you're upset about the fact that they passed you over for the job, but you need to get over it. There's no reason for you to hate a guy you've never met just because he was given a job that you are in no way qualified for. It's delusional that you're still pissed about that.

That's all I really need to say to expose how absurd your argument is. And your argument that he couldn't put together a quality draft after being hired only reaffirms a point that he shouldn't have been hired in the first place. Where is your historical evidence that many first year, first ever GMs bomb their first draft because they're ill-equipped to immediately deal with their first draft?

Second how many GMs walk into a situation like Emery did where he has a previous working relationship with the scouting staff on hand? Emery knew the Bears' scouting department because he worked with a lot of them when he was a scout here. Most of the senior scouts he promoted and kept on. It's already been pointed out numerous times that there has been around 35% turnover since Emery took over and the senior staff the ones who report directly to him are long time Bears scouts that he worked with. Perhaps no GM has ever walked into a more favorable situation than Emery did in year one.

Your comment becomes even more absurd when you manufacture an argument to distract from the point that you just made. You accuse me of trying to change the subject, then pathetically try to turn this into an insult about my desire,to be GM. Good overall effort but pathetic execution.

How many draft picks from his second draft look like they'll be retained over the long term? Most of them are being retained out of sheer necessity rather than quality of talent.

Bostic, Greene, Mills, Washington, Wilson sheer necessity to keep them on the roster, rather than quality of overall selection.

Most were ready to write off Mills in favor of Britton immediately following the season, most openly wondered if Britton would win the starting job in camp. Only another predictable injury prevented that from happening.

The good news is Emery refuses to admit McClellin was a mistake and will give him every opportunity to continue to fuck up on defense, now as the starting SAM backer on this defense. Just like Emery can't admit Tucker was a mistake and many others were a mistake we'll get to see pathetic talent on defense walked out there week after week out of sheer necessity.

WCL · Sep 1, 2014

BearsFan51 said:
That's all I really need to say to expose how absurd your argument is. And your argument that he couldn't put together a quality draft after being hired only reaffirms a point that he shouldn't have been hired in the first place. Where is your historical evidence that many first year, first ever GMs bomb their first draft because they're ill-equipped to immediately deal with their first draft?

Second how many GMs walk into a situation like Emery did where he has a previous working relationship with the scouting staff on hand? Emery knew the Bears' scouting department because he worked with a lot of them when he was a scout here. Most of the senior scouts he promoted and kept on. It's already been pointed out numerous times that there has been around 35% turnover since Emery took over and the senior staff the ones who report directly to him are long time Bears scouts that he worked with. Perhaps no GM has ever walked into a more favorable situation than Emery did in year one.

Your comment becomes even more absurd when you manufacture an argument to distract from the point that you just made. You accuse me of trying to change the subject, then pathetically try to turn this into an insult about my desire,to be GM. Good overall effort but pathetic execution.

How many draft picks from his second draft look like they'll be retained over the long term? Most of them are being retained out of sheer necessity rather than quality of talent.

Bostic, Greene, Mills, Washington, Wilson sheer necessity to keep them on the roster, rather than quality of overall selection.

Most were ready to write off Mills in favor of Britton immediately following the season, most openly wondered if Britton would win the starting job in camp. Only another predictable injury prevented that from happening.

The good news is Emery refuses to admit McClellin was a mistake and will give him every opportunity to continue to fuck up on defense, now as the starting SAM backer on this defense. Just like Emery can't admit Tucker was a mistake and many others were a mistake we'll get to see pathetic talent on defense walked out there week after week out of sheer necessity.

You just did the exact thing that I said you would do once your back was against the wall.

Again, he's added 44 players in three years and 20 of those were rookies when he signed them. And you're insisting that he's not building through the draft. What more do you want? Would you feel better if he would have added 44 rookies in a three year span? According to you, that would make the team better.

BearsFan51 · Sep 1, 2014

WCL said:
You just did the exact thing that I said you would do once your back was against the wall.

Again, he's added 44 players in three years and 20 of those were rookies when he signed them. And you're insisting that he's not building through the draft. What more do you want? Would you feel better if he would have added 44 rookies in a three year span? According to you, that would make the team better.

Building through the draft means building with players that actually stay on the roster or stay at positions they were supposed to be playing so you don't have to sign Jared Allen to take over for Shea McClellin.

Building through the draft aka finding talent that remains on the roster.

Your argument taken at face value translates to, Emery has drafted football players...

WCL · Sep 1, 2014

BearsFan51 said:
Building through the draft means building with players that actually stay on the roster or stay at positions they were supposed to be playing so you don't have to sign Jared Allen to take over for Shea McClellin.

Building through the draft aka finding talent that remains on the roster.

Your argument taken at face value translates to, Emery has drafted football players...

And you're argument—taken at face value—is that he has not drafted football players.

So who is right in that situation?

You've given the guy two full seasons to completely rebuild a 53-man roster through the draft. That's really shitty criteria for judging a GM. No one in their right mind would expect that.

Also, you think he's a failure because only 38% of the roster is players that he brought in as rookies. But in order for those players to count, they need to have already proven that they're long-term solutions.

You're actually arguing that the guys he drafted three months ago don't count as NFL players because they haven't already proven that they'll be on the roster five years from now. And therefore, Emery sucks and you should have the job.

And all of that makes sense in your head. That's amazing.

BearsFan51 · Sep 1, 2014

RacerX said:
Well, yeah. Let's count the young + quality talent on this team: Long. Alshon. Ummm. Errrrr.

WCL said:
And you're argument—taken at face value—is that he has not drafted football players.

So who is right in that situation?

You've given the guy two full seasons to completely rebuild a 53-man roster through the draft. That's really shitty criteria for judging a GM. No one in their right mind would expect that.

Also, you think he's a failure because only 38% of the roster is players that he brought in as rookies. But in order for those players to count, they need to have already proven that they're long-term solutions.

You're actually arguing that the guys he drafted three months ago don't count as NFL players because they haven't already proven that they'll be on the roster five years from now. And therefore, Emery sucks and you should have the job.

And all of that makes sense in your head. That's amazing.

The quote I included above is where argument dies. Two drafts in and...

Silverwulf · Sep 1, 2014

WCL said:
Okay, let's look at how Emery's put the team together. Here's how he acquired every guy on the roster:

Good Breakdown. Thanks for the information.

WCL · Sep 1, 2014

BearsFan51 said:
The quote I included above is where argument dies. Two drafts in and...

And... he's drafted two Pro-Bowlers and 1/3 of the guys on the roster.

Compare that to Angelo's last three drafts. We have Paea and Conte to show for those.

WCL · Sep 1, 2014

And your example earlier was "Bostic, Greene, Mills, Washington, Wilson sheer necessity to keep them on the roster, rather than quality of overall selection."

Four of those guys would be signed by another team immediately if we cut them, so those are shitty examples.

BearsFan51 · Sep 1, 2014

WCL said:
Compare that to Angelo's last three drafts. We have Paea and Conte to show for those.

No one is comparing anything to Angelo to make their argument better or Emery look worse, no one give two fucks about Angelo in this thread but you.

I could make another point about Angelo's last two drafts that differ greatly from Emery's but I'm sure you'll switch it up,to something about Webb and tacos.

WCL · Sep 1, 2014

BearsFan51 said:
No one is comparing anything to Angelo to make their argument better or Emery look worse, no one give two fucks about Angelo in this thread but you.

I could make another point about Angelo's last two drafts that differ greatly from Emery's but I'm sure you'll switch it up,to something about Webb and tacos.

You started this thread to show that the reason the roster is the third-oldest is Emery's inability to draft. He's added 20 rookies in three years.

It's been clearly shown (by people besides me) that the reason the roster is not younger is because of Angelo's last three years. It has nothing to do with Emery's ability to draft. He could not have done much more than he has to make the team younger.

And you're bitching and complaining about a stat that means nothing (which has also something that's been shown by numerous people). The difference between the oldest team and the youngest is two years, and it has no correlation to success.

At some point, you have to grow up and admit that you were wrong about something. Whether it's this thread or every decision you've ever made, you need to admit that you were wrong.

BearsFan51 · Sep 1, 2014

WCL said:
You started this thread to show that the reason the roster is the third-oldest is Emery's inability to draft. He's added 20 rookies in three years.

It's been clearly shown (by people besides me) that the reason the roster is not younger is because of Angelo's last three years. It has nothing to do with Emery's ability to draft. He could not have done much more than he has to make the team younger.

And you're bitching and complaining about a stat that means nothing (which has also something that's been shown by numerous people). The difference between the oldest team and the youngest is two years, and it has no correlation to success.

At some point, you have to grow up and admit that you were wrong about something. Whether it's this thread or every decision you've ever made, you need to admit that you were wrong.

20 rookies in three years, of those which do you expect to be on this roster after their four year rookie deals?

WCL · Sep 1, 2014

BearsFan51 said:
20 rookies in three years, of those which do you expect to be on this roster after their four year rookie deals?

It doesn't matter. That's a thing that can't be proven at this point.

According to you, the only way a draft pick counts is if the player gets re-signed to a second contract. And you're using that criteria to judge draft picks from a GM who was hired 2 1/2 years ago. Do you not see how unbelievably fucking stupid that is?

You saw one number in an article, and said, "Emery no draft good. I'm gonna make post to show he a dummyhead.

" If you would have bothered to break the roster down like I did, you would have seen that you were wrong. That number has nothing to do with his ability to draft.

Now, you've just got another thread in which you look like an idiot.

You know you're wrong, and if you'd just admit to it, it would be over. But you insist on going on and on with your bullshit. This is why you don't have any friends in real life.

sam slocum · Sep 1, 2014

BearsFan51 said:
20 rookies in three years, of those which do you expect to be on this roster after their four year rookie deals?

You are smart enough to realize that many things: injuries, money, future draft picks and free agency for example will determine the roster down the road?

BearsFan51 · Sep 1, 2014

So judging Emery in the present can't be a part of the football discussion on this board.

pseudonym · Sep 1, 2014

if you think Emery / Trestman are doing a bad job, are worse than Angelo / Lovie then you really aren't paying attention, and are seriously delusional.

WCL · Sep 1, 2014

BearsFan51 said:
So judging Emery in the present can't be a part of the football discussion on this board.

Judging the GM based on whether you think a player who was drafted three months ago will receive a second contract four years from now is something that a fucking lunatic would do.

You're not being rational. This all goes back to the fact that they gave him the job instead of you. You're still pissed about that. That's ridiculous.

Celks · Sep 1, 2014

BearsFan51 said:
So judging Emery in the present can't be a part of the football discussion on this board.

If you were a real man and lived up to your word then you wouldn't even be posting on this board anymore. You failed HARD when it came to J Webb and that prediction. Pull through with your side of the bargain and vanish.

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Bears have third oldest roster in the NFL

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