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Papa Wheelie

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The one thing I wouldn't worry about is the versatility of our frontcourt. This should be the Bulls #1 asset going into this season. Not only is it a deep frontcourt, the matchup options should be plentiful. We have 4 guys that can log minutes at C in Noah, Pau, Taj, and Bairstow. Taj, Pau, and Mirotic can all man the PF spot very well.

At SF, the Bulls have Dunleavy, McD, Butler and Mirotic. Even the Cavs new coach mentioned that Mirotic is a matchup nightmare cuz he can switch between the 3 and 4 easily. The Bulls should be able to matchup against any team out there at the frontcourt. There are literally a bunch of combinations.

We can go offensive, defensive, and a combo of both. We should be able to play a halfcourt game pretty well, as well as run when we have to. We've got guys that can post and we have bigs that can hit the 3. The bottom line is Thib's should be able to create matchup problems every night.
 

houheffna

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Cavs are number 1 in the east until Rose proves that he can play at an MVP level again. As far as 6 teams in the West being better than Cleveland....that's hilarious.
 

nwfisch

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Cavs are number 1 in the east until Rose proves that he can play at an MVP level again. As far as 6 teams in the West being better than Cleveland....that's hilarious.

Heck I'd go as far as Cavs are #1 unless LeBron tears his ACL.
 

Diddy1122

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Cavs are number 1 in the east until Rose proves that he can play at an MVP level again. As far as 6 teams in the West being better than Cleveland....that's hilarious.

But you can easily say that Cavs shouldn't be considered #1 until their big 3 prove they can play together in a new system with a new coach and an almost entirely new roster. I still have them as #1 but I think they will struggle at first just like the Heat did. However, the biggest difference is that those Heat teams had their incredible D to fall back on when they struggled. This Cavs team does not. I see that being a year long issue for them.

For now, I'd put the Cavs as 1a and the Bulls as 1b. It can go either way based on how the teams come together during the season. If Rose does return to MVP form, which I feel he will though the numbers may not reflect it due to better talent around him, I would say this is the BEST SHOT the Bulls have at making the Finals and potentially winning it all. Either way, I'm glad the rivalry is back and this should be a fun season.
 

ChiSoxCity

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But you can easily say that Cavs shouldn't be considered #1 until their big 3 prove they can play together in a new system with a new coach and an almost entirely new roster. I still have them as #1 but I think they will struggle at first just like the Heat did. However, the biggest difference is that those Heat teams had their incredible D to fall back on when they struggled. This Cavs team does not. I see that being a year long issue for them.

For now, I'd put the Cavs as 1a and the Bulls as 1b. It can go either way based on how the teams come together during the season. If Rose does return to MVP form, which I feel he will though the numbers may not reflect it due to better talent around him, I would say this is the BEST SHOT the Bulls have at making the Finals and potentially winning it all. Either way, I'm glad the rivalry is back and this should be a fun season.

Why should the Cavs be favored over everyone else in the east?

It's quite simple. They have LeBron James, Kevin Love, and Kyrie Irving. Period.

The Bulls don't have that much talent on the roster, and any knowledgeable fan can see that. Until we see Rose and company show they belong in that conversation, all the comparisons and talk about 1B are pointless.

We also have no business counting out teams like Washington, Toronto or Miami. These teams are just as talented as the Bulls... probably moreso in the case of Washington. It's ok to root for your team and have high hopes, but when you ignore every other team out there, you just sound dumb or uninformed.
 

Diddy1122

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Why should the Cavs be favored over everyone else in the east?

It's quite simple. They have LeBron James, Kevin Love, and Kyrie Irving. Period.

The Bulls don't have that much talent on the roster, and any knowledgeable fan can see that. Until we see Rose and company show they belong in that conversation, all the comparisons and talk about 1B are pointless.

We also have no business counting out teams like Washington, Toronto or Miami. These teams are just as talented as the Bulls... probably moreso in the case of Washington. It's ok to root for your team and have high hopes, but when you ignore every other team out there, you just sound dumb or uninformed.

I didn't ignore anything. Way to put words into my mouth. I'm merely stating that NO ONE has seen the Cavs play together so automatically crowning them #1 just because of what's on paper is basically the same as crowning the Bulls #1 because of their team on paper. You can't make statements like the Bulls have to show they belong in the conversation, when the same can be said for the Cavs. Yes, LeBron is the best player in the NBA but I seem to rememer the 2010 Heat going 9-9 in their first 18 games. And that team was WAAAAAY more talented then this Cavs team. Now I still have the Cavs #1, stated that a few times, but it's ridiculous to think this team will just run away with everything when, once again, THEY HAVEN'T PLAYED A SINGLE GAME TOGETHER.

And the Bulls don't have talent on the roster?? They have the defensive player of the year, the runner up for 6th man of the year, a former MVP who's returning, a multiple allstar big man who just tore up the FIBA tournanment, and still the best defense in the league. Yea let's compare them to the likes of the Bobcats and Pistons. :smh: And despite injuries almost every year, the team is ALWAYS in the top 4 or 5. If anything people underestimate the Bulls all the time, Bulls fans included. Each season under Thibs with a healthy Rose, the Bulls have finished with the BEST RECORD IN THE LEAGUE. I'm going based on historical facts here, not some burning desire to be a homer.
 

ChiSoxCity

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I didn't ignore anything. Way to put words into my mouth. I'm merely stating that NO ONE has seen the Cavs play together so automatically crowning them #1 just because of what's on paper is basically the same as crowning the Bulls #1 because of their team on paper. You can't make statements like the Bulls have to show they belong in the conversation, when the same can be said for the Cavs. Yes, LeBron is the best player in the NBA but I seem to rememer the 2010 Heat going 9-9 in their first 18 games. And that team was WAAAAAY more talented then this Cavs team. Now I still have the Cavs #1, stated that a few times, but it's ridiculous to think this team will just run away with everything when, once again, THEY HAVEN'T PLAYED A SINGLE GAME TOGETHER.

And the Bulls don't have talent on the roster?? They have the defensive player of the year, the runner up for 6th man of the year, a former MVP who's returning, a multiple allstar big man who just tore up the FIBA tournanment, and still the best defense in the league. Yea let's compare them to the likes of the Bobcats and Pistons. :smh: And despite injuries almost every year, the team is ALWAYS in the top 4 or 5. If anything people underestimate the Bulls all the time, Bulls fans included. Each season under Thibs with a healthy Rose, the Bulls have finished with the BEST RECORD IN THE LEAGUE. I'm going based on historical facts here, not some burning desire to be a homer.

I think you read my statement out of context. I meant the Bulls don't have the kind of talent Cleveland has. They have the best player in the world, followed by Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving who are both top 20 in the NBA. They also have a solid cast of supporting players like Varejao, Waiters and Thompson.

They may not be the best defensive team in the league, but they will be able to score points at will. As we have seen with the Bulls over the years, winning in the playoffs has everything to do with being able to score points. The Bulls have relied on defense to carry them thru the regular season in the past, and it's gotten them no where in terms of world championships or NBA Finals appearances. I do believe the Bulls have the potential to be better than they've been in previous years, but a lot of things have to work out in their favor. The only reliable scorer we have is still Rose, and he hasn't played well in three years.

So, in conclusion, the Cavs have three proven stars, the Bulls have one coming back from injury who hasn't played well. That means the Cavs are the better team at the moment, and you can't leave out other teams like the ones I mentioned yesterday.
 

clonetrooper264

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The only reliable scorer we have is still Rose, and he hasn't played well in three years. So, in conclusion, the Cavs have three proven stars, the Bulls have one coming back from injury who hasn't played well. That means the Cavs are the better team at the moment, and you can't leave out other teams like the ones I mentioned yesterday.
Is Gasol not a reliable scorer? I know he's up there in age, but it looks like he can still put up at least 15-18 points per game. I know it's not enough to put us over Cleveland or whatever, but it's at least like having Luol Deng who, despite other weaknesses offensively, was a fairly reliable scorer.

Also I don't think anyone is saying that the Cavs aren't the most talented team right now. When you assemble a younger big 3 in an offseason and one of those players is the best player in the world, you will generally tend to have the talent advantage over everyone.

As for the rest of the East, I suppose Washington is pretty good with the continued progression of Wall and Beal, but their defense took a huge hit with Ariza leaving. If you say Paul Pierce gives them a lot, you kind of have to say Gasol does the same for us. Nene and Gortat...they are what they are, much like Noah and Taj are what they are. Their bench is pretty meh and I'd take Hinrich and co over that for sure. Toronto will probably step up their game with Derozan coming off the Team USA experience. Lowry is solid...Lou Williams if healthy can help them out. Valanciunous is a decent center. Patterson is ok. I don't think I'd put them over Chicago though. Other than that, who's really taking a step up? NY is basically the same team. Atlanta doesn't look really any better. Brooklyn is yet another year older and down Paul Pierce. Charlotte didn't really get a ton better with Stephenson. Miami obviously took a huge step back plus Wade is a question mark as to his effectiveness. Imo, ranking Cleveland and Chicago as 1 and 2 is pretty reasonable.
 

ChiSoxCity

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Is Gasol not a reliable scorer? I know he's up there in age, but it looks like he can still put up at least 15-18 points per game. I know it's not enough to put us over Cleveland or whatever, but it's at least like having Luol Deng who, despite other weaknesses offensively, was a fairly reliable scorer.

Also I don't think anyone is saying that the Cavs aren't the most talented team right now. When you assemble a younger big 3 in an offseason and one of those players is the best player in the world, you will generally tend to have the talent advantage over everyone.

As for the rest of the East, I suppose Washington is pretty good with the continued progression of Wall and Beal, but their defense took a huge hit with Ariza leaving. If you say Paul Pierce gives them a lot, you kind of have to say Gasol does the same for us. Nene and Gortat...they are what they are, much like Noah and Taj are what they are. Their bench is pretty meh and I'd take Hinrich and co over that for sure. Toronto will probably step up their game with Derozan coming off the Team USA experience. Lowry is solid...Lou Williams if healthy can help them out. Valanciunous is a decent center. Patterson is ok. I don't think I'd put them over Chicago though. Other than that, who's really taking a step up? NY is basically the same team. Atlanta doesn't look really any better. Brooklyn is yet another year older and down Paul Pierce. Charlotte didn't really get a ton better with Stephenson. Miami obviously took a huge step back plus Wade is a question mark as to his effectiveness. Imo, ranking Cleveland and Chicago as 1 and 2 is pretty reasonable.

Gasol will be huge coming off the bench for the Bulls. I don't really see him playing a ton of minutes due his advanced age and history of injuries. He can certainly score 12ppg and give us 8 or 9 rpg, which again, is a good thing. Unfortunately, the Bulls have always relied on guys like Pau (Deng, Noah, Nate) because they lack impact star players who can carry a team in the playoffs. I'm not giving up on McBuckets and Mirotic at all. I'm simplying saying it's TBD how good the Bulls truly are. Calling them the best or 2nd best team in the east is a little too much fan hubris for my taste.
 

clonetrooper264

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Gasol will be huge coming off the bench for the Bulls. I don't really see him playing a ton of minutes due his advanced age and history of injuries. He can certainly score 12ppg and give us 8 or 9 rpg, which again, is a good thing. Unfortunately, the Bulls have always relied on guys like Pau (Deng, Noah, Nate) because they lack impact star players who can carry a team in the playoffs. I'm not giving up on McBuckets and Mirotic at all. I'm simplying saying it's TBD how good the Bulls truly are. Calling them the best or 2nd best team in the east is a little too much fan hubris for my taste.
I see what you're saying, but I think you're selling Gasol a little bit short here. 12ppg? Unless he's only playing 20 mpg I doubt he's only scoring that much for us. Heck, Boozer was averaging like 14ppg...though probably not come playoff time, but I'm sure you would agree that Gasol will be better than Boozer even though he's a couple years older. Between Rose, McDermott, and Gasol (not necessarily in that order) I think we'll have a solid 1-2-3 scoring punch when we want offense. Obviously not the best or anything like that, but it won't be inept like the past few seasons. Given the situation that we don't have multiple scoring stars, it's probably about as good as we could have gotten. I don't see how 2nd place in the East is overconfident for this team. I already stated my thoughts on the rest of the field, but I'm curious as to which team(s) you think would be clearly better.
 

Papa Wheelie

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So, in conclusion, the Cavs have three proven stars, the Bulls have one coming back from injury who hasn't played well. That means the Cavs are the better team at the moment, and you can't leave out other teams like the ones I mentioned yesterday.

People keep going on about the 3 stars. I just saw with my own eyes a SA team dismantle the Heats 3 stars and make it look easy. The Bulls have assembled a very deep and talented team ala SA. I also don't think the Cavs big 3 will be as good as the Heats big 3. The Heat was also a much better defensive team than the Cavs ever will be. Plus the Cavs have a coach that has never coached a game in the NBA. All this tells me that the "3 stars" is highly overstated.
 

Axl Rose

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lets stop comparing our team to the spurs

besides the Heat were fatigued from winning 2 championships in 3 straight finals appearances nobody from the heat played particularly well while the Spurs were hungry pissed off and at the top of their game
 

Diddy1122

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Gasol will be huge coming off the bench for the Bulls. I don't really see him playing a ton of minutes due his advanced age and history of injuries. He can certainly score 12ppg and give us 8 or 9 rpg, which again, is a good thing. Unfortunately, the Bulls have always relied on guys like Pau (Deng, Noah, Nate) because they lack impact star players who can carry a team in the playoffs. I'm not giving up on McBuckets and Mirotic at all. I'm simplying saying it's TBD how good the Bulls truly are. Calling them the best or 2nd best team in the east is a little too much fan hubris for my taste.

Gasol is not coming off the bench. I don't care if the Bulls FO told Taj to prepare like he's the starter. Pau is filling the Boozer role in Thibs scheme and will fill it better than Boozer ever did. 12ppg for Pau is ridiculous. He will easily be up in the 15-18 range on this team while providing better defense and more versatility in the front court.

None of the teams in the East, outside of the Cavs, have made a significant improvement. Washington has shown some improvement but how much does Pierce really have left? Toronto is exactly the same as last year, which is good but only Leastern Conference good. Miami is significantly worse yet people are still rating them highly. Charlotte is a wild card but I still think they will struggle badly to score as they lack any real outside threats on the team.

The Bulls finished 4th last season with No Rose and No Deng. They nearly won 50 games. Even getting back a Rose that averages 15-20ppg is a major improvement over last season, especially when coupled with the additions of Gasol, Mirotic, and a more balanced bench. The Cavs and the Bulls are the only 2 teams in the East that got markedly better so that's why I easily call them 1 & 2 in the Leastern Conference.
 

Papa Wheelie

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all im saying is the Bulls are not the Spurs

And I didn't say the Bulls were the Spurs, but they are are definitely following the Spurs model. And depending on what McD and Mirotic do, it might not be that far off. By the way, the Cavs are not the Heat either.
 

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