2015 Cubs Offseason Discussion

chibears55 · Sep 13, 2014

JZsportsfan said:
Yes, but eventually they have to stop waiting for every target to hit FA. Not saying they do it, was just curious as to what people perceived his value to be

True.. my post wss based just that I think they'd want to see who of these top kids are keepers for them first before they trade away..

chibears55 · Sep 13, 2014

Boobaby1 said:
If he hits free agency, the Cubs will never get him because they don't offer what the big boys do which is boatloads of money, years, and no-trade clauses.

The only way the Cubs ever get him (if they want him) is via the trade route.

Ok.. so trade top players for him now and let him walk in 2 yrs cause as you think cubs wont pay him the money when he a FA in 2 yrs

If that the case id rather keep my young top players and take my chances in 2 yrs in negotiation, if he says no at least I still have those top players.

Another thing.. yea the Ricketts cut back on payroll the last couple years as we all know why and dont need to get into it again. . Doesn't mean in a couple years when dust settles he not going to spend on needed top talent via FA or Trade

CSF77 · Sep 13, 2014

I would rather see how Soler develops. That dude has boat loads of potential.

That is not even getting into Bryant who has more.

We are seeing right now that the SP is getting wrecked by play off quality teams. That is the #1 concern. Getting wrecked 11-1 and 7-3. If is was 5-1 5-3 we could say we need more O. Right now the O has little chance when the staff is falling apart.

That is with out Jackson in the mix.

Hendricks is young still but if he is a #2 this team is going to suck. He needs to be the 4th best pitcher on the staff.

If I had a clean slate and the ability to retain I would have Arrieta as a 1-3 Hendricks as a 4 and Felix as my 5. Then I would add 2 TOR.

1 this year and 1 next. I doubt they are going to add 2 this year. But if they did decide to invest heavy Lester and Meada... Still I don't see any being a top 5 SP in baseball out of the group. Scherzer is arguabley a top 5 in the league but can you say 25-30 mil per.

CSF77 · Sep 13, 2014

http://m.cubs.mlb.com/news/article/94528842/middle-of-the-cubs-future-lineup-stacked

By Carrie Muskat / MLB.com | 3:59 PM ET + 3 COMMENTS
PITTSBURGH -- Javier Baez's powerful swing would seem to be a better fit in the middle of the order, but he's been batting second since his promotion because Cubs manager Rick Renteria is trying to get the rookie as many at-bats as possible. It's fun to project the Cubs' future lineup.

"Javy will swing the bat and have his approach the way he has his approach," Renteria said Saturday. "As his approach continues to get better and he's able to show more consistency, then that opens the possibility of maybe a different slot somewhere down the road. Depending on who's hitting in the lineup, he profiles being in the middle of the order."
Starlin Castro has batted fourth most of the season for the Cubs, and thrived there, although Renteria has said repeatedly the shortstop isn't really a No. 4 hitter. And what do they do with another power hitter, rookie Jorge Soler?
"Fortunately for us, we have [Anthony Rizzo], who has great approaches and is our No. 3 hitter now, and [Soler] can be that kind of guy, too," Renteria said. "It's a good problem for us to have in terms of what these guys might profile at. If they're all doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing, I can see them in the second through the sixth slot."
Cubs fans most likely are already projecting the order for 2015.
"I think [fans] should be very excited about the possibilities," Renteria said.

Seems like they are thinking:
1: Alcantara
2: Castro
3: Soler
4: Rizzo
5: Baez

We can add in Bryant into the mix before it starts to get hot. I doubt they will push Schwarber and they instead make him convert into a catcher. It really leaves LF open. A bat like Brown would slot in the mix.

Or they just promote Russell and push Bryant to LF. Few things they can do next year. This team is going to get scarry pretty fast. Russell has a 70 rated hit tool. Dude is going to be fun to watch.

gbach06 · Sep 13, 2014

Which of the Cubs' prospects do you think are going to get traded? As in, they probably wont even make their MLB debut in a Cubs uniform.

gbach06 · Sep 13, 2014

If you guys are interested in becoming an admin for a Cubs facebook fan page, go to facebook.com/therealcubsfanpage and send them a message. They're looking for some.

CSF77 · Sep 14, 2014

gbach06 said:
Which of the Cubs' prospects do you think are going to get traded? As in, they probably wont even make their MLB debut in a Cubs uniform.

Almora

chibears55 · Sep 14, 2014

gbach06 said:
Which of the Cubs' prospects do you think are going to get traded? As in, they probably wont even make their MLB debut in a Cubs uniform.

Vogelbach

CSF77 · Sep 14, 2014

chibears55 said:
Vogelbach

I'm not sure he makes it to the bigs. After he lost weight he lost his power also.

chibears55 · Sep 14, 2014

CSF77 said:
I'm not sure he makes it to the bigs. After he lost weight he lost his power also.

Ok.. he could still get traded without making a cubs debut

CSF77 · Sep 14, 2014

Wel Olt sense his return: 25 AB. 7 hits. 9 SO 2 BB. .280/.357/.400 Seems like he is looking to get on base now vs try to hit a home run. 0 HR's sense his return. I'll take it as an improvement.

CSF77 · Sep 14, 2014

chibears55 said:
Ok.. he could still get traded without making a cubs debut

Meh thinks we need a bust out of the league poll with that one.

CSF77 · Sep 14, 2014

Lake on the other hand: 9 AB's. 0 hits. 2 BB 5 SO's. I doubt he is a Cub next year.

I would rather have them convert Travis Wood into a LF because at least he can hit.

chibears55 · Sep 14, 2014

CSF77 said:
Meh thinks we need a bust out of the league poll with that one.

He a1B/DH, his season high HR was 19, he hit 16 last yr but had 76 RBI season high.. what hurt him was a big drop in AVG to .260s..

Not saying its 100% certainty, just him only being able to play 1B and cubs have that position covered I see him being more of a trade asset then a future cub.

he picks his AVG. up next season and hits 20+ homers he may end up on an AL team radar as at least an add on in a trade.

chibears55 · Sep 14, 2014

CSF77 said:
Lake on the other hand: 9 AB's. 0 hits. 2 BB 5 SO's. I doubt he is a Cub next year.

I would rather have them convert Travis Wood into a LF because at least he can hit.

Lake needs to spend the whole off season working on everything

Shawon_Dunston · Sep 14, 2014

CSF77 said:
I'm not sure he makes it to the bigs. After he lost weight he lost his power also.

Ehh, I would like to see what he does next year in Tennessee before I would say that he lost his power. The FSL is a notorious pitcher's league where only 1 person had 20 homers. Vogelbach was still tied for fifth in homers in the FSL in a so called down power year.

CSF77 · Sep 14, 2014

chibears55 said:
Lake needs to spend the whole off season working on everything

Lake needs another career.

CSF77 · Sep 14, 2014

Shawon_Dunston said:
Ehh, I would like to see what he does next year in Tennessee before I would say that he lost his power. The FSL is a notorious pitcher's league where only 1 person had 20 homers. Vogelbach was still tied for fifth in homers in the FSL in a so called down power year.

Lets see limited by his D.

HR ratio: 1 every 30.125 AB's. Only saving grace: BB ratio: 13.6 SO ratio: 18.8 So his strike zone mastery is solid but his D limitations and the fact Rizzo is just better all around means he is a DH.

But Kyle Schwarber: 1 HR in 15.9 AB's BB ratio: 16.3 SO ratio: 23.8 You add power and get better D with the option of catcher. No brainer here.

It comes down to ratios and 1 every 30 AB's is not good even when using a crutch excuse that got blown up by similar player situation.

Sure the league did matter some. But not to a 1:30 extent which is poor for a limited player.

CSF77 · Sep 14, 2014

BTW: Schwarber over all 1: 14.555. So it got a little worse in the FSL. Baez 1: 17.5 AB's last year in FSL 1: 10.9 in AA. That was almost 2x.

My opinion is a limited player like Vogelbach needs to be slamming out 35 per year. His future is DH and if he is not pushing at least 30 per year he has no future.

There are plenty of vets out there who can still hit major league pitching that can be DH's.

Vogelbach has a huge chance of never making it. And it is all about his limited skill set.

Shawon_Dunston · Sep 15, 2014

CSF77 said:
Lets see limited by his D.

HR ratio: 1 every 30.125 AB's. Only saving grace: BB ratio: 13.6 SO ratio: 18.8 So his strike zone mastery is solid but his D limitations and the fact Rizzo is just better all around means he is a DH.

But Kyle Schwarber: 1 HR in 15.9 AB's BB ratio: 16.3 SO ratio: 23.8 You add power and get better D with the option of catcher. No brainer here.

It comes down to ratios and 1 every 30 AB's is not good even when using a crutch excuse that got blown up by similar player situation.

Sure the league did matter some. But not to a 1:30 extent which is poor for a limited player.

Just because Schawarber hit 10 homers in 160 ABs does not mean he will continue to hit homers at the same rate. Odds are he is not going to be close to a 40 HR hitter. HR ratios are not constant in that small of a sample, not to mention it is only a piece of the puzzle when determining the overall makeup of a hitter, not the end all be all. That's the same thinking that had some people thinking Matt Murton would be a power hitter when he first came up. Look, I am totally with you about Vogelbach being a question mark and needing to hit more to be a useful player because of his other attributes. All I am saying is that I think his performance next year will be a better indicator of his future performance. I think you underrate the effect of hitting in the FSL. Look at this, http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130225&content_id=41998650&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_milb&tcid=tw_share. The FSL is the worst full season league to hit in terms of power. You say his HR rate was poor, but it was still one of the best in the FSL among players who played there the majority of the season. Actually if you break Vogelbach's season into first half and second half, his HR rate doubled the second half from the first half. Is that just noise or did he figure things out? Let's see what he does next year.

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