2015 Cubs Offseason Discussion

CSF77 · Dec 19, 2014

Shawon0Meter said:
Man, I'm not a fan of Ross over Castillo at all.

LH SP in the Division:

Pirates: Jeff Locke, Lirianio
Reds: Cingrani

That is it. If they platoon them then Castillo will get limited playing time anyways due to the RH SP dominance in the division.

Thus he has more value as a trade chip vs sitting on the bench for 80% of the games.

CSF77 · Dec 19, 2014

TL1961 said:
I am not worried about the money. It seemed a foregone conclusion that Ross was coming here, and Castillo would be traded.

I can live with that, but I think Castillo may go for very little in return. I hope I am wrong.

But you have to admit, after all the time we were hearing Ross may come here, the Cubs signed him the same day we were told he was off the market. So that part is a surprise.

It's a minor deal. He'll catch 30-40 games, most of which Lester will start. I'm fine with that. It's not out of the ordinary. I just hope we get something for Beef.

It would make sence to package him and Wood together and send them to Philly. Ruiz had arthroscopic surgery to his left shoulder. Castillo becomes a solid depth piece.

SP: Hamels, Lee, Buchanan, Williams , Gonzalez. #5 starter only has 0 career major league starts. 3 in the minors...ya there is a clear need. Been Revere has been talked about some. I don't like the fact he had 13 BB in 601 AB's last year. But the 49 bags were stellar. 184 hits is not killing him. He is a 5% BB guy it seems but his wheels and his hit tool are pretty good. I could see him and Castro going 1/2 with Rizzo 3. It would give some spark at the top.

JimJohnson · Dec 19, 2014

Ross is only going to catch Lester. Just relax guys.

chibears55 · Dec 19, 2014

CSF77 said:
LH SP in the Division:

Pirates: Jeff Locke, Lirianio
Reds: Cingrani

That is it. If they platoon them then Castillo will get limited playing time anyways due to the RH SP dominance in the division.

Thus he has more value as a trade chip vs sitting on the bench for 80% of the games.

I would of preferred to keep Castillo as starter and money spent on Montero could of been used on an everyday OFer

SilenceS · Dec 20, 2014

Ross sucks!

CSF77 · Dec 20, 2014

chibears55 said:
I would of preferred to keep Castillo as starter and money spent on Montero could of been used on an everyday OFer

I doubt that they are done. If Wood/Castillo becomes Ben Revere then no one going to care about Castillo.

But, from what I'm seeing Theo and Jed are investing into the rotation and want proven vets behind the plate. Both are good pitch framers. So there is a trend here. Castillo was one of the league worst at it.

They need a proven lead off. That is the next thing I expect for them to attack.

Regardless the team is making changes. I see them as intelligent decisions.

chibears55 · Dec 20, 2014

CSF77 said:
I doubt that they are done. If Wood/Castillo becomes Ben Revere then no one going to care about Castillo.

But, from what I'm seeing Theo and Jed are investing into the rotation and want proven vets behind the plate. Both are good pitch framers. So there is a trend here. Castillo was one of the league worst at it.

They need a proven lead off. That is the next thing I expect for them to attack.

Regardless the team is making changes. I see them as intelligent decisions.

I just hope their big OF move isnt just Gomes so he can platoon wirh coughlin..

I agree their main focus is on pitching , IMO it to take pressure off the young hitters as they go through their first full season. .

Also IMO.. this pitch framing thing is stupid..

Seriously how do they even come up with a stat for that... do they have these pitch framing experts sit there and watch every pitch to every catchet of every game and are so expertise in pitch framing that they can tell when it done or not and give their expert opinion on wheather it was a good frame or not..

ill look after I send this but was the Dback rotation that much better with Montero catching then Samardzija (cubs) Hammel (cubs) Arrieta and Hendricks was with Castillo. . Something tells me not really. .
and offensively montero and castillo ate about the same..

If they trade Castillo for basically nothing. I guarantee in a season or two their going to wish he was still a Cub. ..

Montero not going to wow us, and ross will probably be worse then Baker..

JimJohnson · Dec 20, 2014

chibears55 said:
Also IMO.. this pitch framing thing is stupid..

Seriously how do they even come up with a stat for that...

How do you explain that Lester had an era .60 lower with Ross cataching than when other catchers caught him? Just luck?

chibears55 · Dec 20, 2014

JimJohnson said:
How do you explain that Lester had an era .60 lower with Ross cataching than when other catchers caught him? Just luck?

Did you break that down over his career ?
How many games differences are we talking about ?
cause .60 isnt much of a difference overall. ..

Lester ERA with Oakland 2.35

Lester ERA with Boston 2.52

He didn't need Ross pitch framing expertise to have a better ERA with Oakland catcher...

SilenceS · Dec 20, 2014

chibears55 said:
I just hope their big OF move isnt just Gomes so he can platoon wirh coughlin..

I agree their main focus is on pitching , IMO it to take pressure off the young hitters as they go through their first full season. .

Also IMO.. this pitch framing thing is stupid..

Seriously how do they even come up with a stat for that... do they have these pitch framing experts sit there and watch every pitch to every catchet of every game and are so expertise in pitch framing that they can tell when it done or not and give their expert opinion on wheather it was a good frame or not..

ill look after I send this but was the Dback rotation that much better with Montero catching then Samardzija (cubs) Hammel (cubs) Arrieta and Hendricks was with Castillo. . Something tells me not really. .
and offensively montero and castillo ate about the same..

If they trade Castillo for basically nothing. I guarantee in a season or two their going to wish he was still a Cub. ..

Montero not going to wow us, and ross will probably be worse then Baker..

I will say that Montero according to sabers saved the DBacks 24 runs according to his pitch framing. Something like 600 balls were called strike last season when he was catching. I have always backed Castillo but he does catch the ball weird sometimes where they arent called strikes. theo and Jed are all about the Sabers. Im 99% positive that they have a computer program that sets the Cubs lineup. Joe Maddon fits their philosophy because he believes in Sabers just as much.

CSF77 · Dec 20, 2014

ill look after I send this but was the Dback rotation that much better with Montero catching then Samardzija (cubs) Hammel (cubs) Arrieta and Hendricks was with Castillo. . Something tells me not really. .
and offensively montero and castillo ate about the same..

Not the same park. Not the same pitchers. You can't compare.

CSF77 · Dec 20, 2014

Not to mention, as I've said before There are only 3 LH SP in the NL central outside of the Cubs and 2 are on Pit. 1 is on Cin. 0 on the Cards. 0 on the Brews. Seeing how most of the schedule is set up against RH SP Castillo was not going to get quality playing time. Not to mention that he is another RH bat in a crowed RH line up.

To be honest he degraded too much from 2013. D wise and O wise. His pitch framing has never been good but too boot he went from a top 5 D catcher to 13 in 1 year and his BA droped to .235...

Ya and we get on Wood for flopping but it is ok for Castillo to flop just as bad.

Even if they both rebound what is their value? I see it as short term for both. Schwarber seems to be the long term catcher and Wood really is not that good. Wada IMO will net equal value in 2015.

Boobaby1 · Dec 21, 2014

SilenceS said:
Ross sucks!

They didn't bring him in for his offense. They brought him in to catch Lester, and spell Montero when Lefties are pitching. If the Cubs are pinning there hopes on Ross hitting, they are screwed, but they aren't.

It is up to the other 7 guys to give this team offense, and if they don't, it wouldn't matter if Ross hit .350 with 40 HR's.

Okay, maybe it would mater a little. :smug2:

JimJohnson · Dec 21, 2014

Boobaby1 said:
They didn't bring him in for his offense. They brought him in to catch Lester, and spell Montero when Lefties are pitching. If the Cubs are pinning there hopes on Ross hitting, they are screwed, but they aren't.

It is up to the other 7 guys to give this team offense, and if they don't, it wouldn't matter if Ross hit .350 with 40 HR's.

Okay, maybe it would mater a little.

Bingo. If the other 7 guys can't score 3 runs per game when Lester pitches, that's their problem, not Ross's. Ross/Lester will do what they need to do to keep their opponents at 2.5 earned runs per game. Cubs should win a bunch of games with those guys controlling the opposing hitters.

CuttyMarsh2012forOffice · Dec 21, 2014

TL1961 said:
WHOA!!!

Lots of hits, great D.

Nowhere close to Top 10.

Include his impact on the game, yes he is. Only thing he lacks is power. He is a top ten player. He'd be legendary just off his defense or offense if he only had one to choose from

Sent from my LG-C800 using Tapatalk 2

beckdawg · Dec 21, 2014

I feel like Montero could be better than Castillo. My issue is at the money he's making I don't think it's enough to warrant the difference. Either way I'm kind of over it. I don't think it's a disastrous move

TL1961 · Dec 21, 2014

CuttyMarsh2012forOffice said:
Include his impact on the game, yes he is. Only thing he lacks is power. He is a top ten player. He'd be legendary just off his defense or offense if he only had one to choose from

Sent from my LG-C800 using Tapatalk 2

Batting average alone isn't the most important stat. His slugging is low. His OPS is poor.

His calling card is number of hits. He has a good batting average, but is 60th all time there.
His OBP ranks 451st all time. So while he gets hits, his overall OBP lags behind a whole lot of people with fewer hits.

His career OPS is 670th. There are 75 active players with a better OPS.

I am not using OPS as the only stat, and I don't say he's 76th best active hitter. But put it in perspective. 670th vs. Top 10.

His accomplishments, as far as number of hits, are great. And I love his D. But a singles hitter with no power and little run production is nowhere near the top 10 players of all time.

I believe he'll go into the HOF, but I recall a discussion a few years ago either on MLB or Baseball Tonight, where they discussed active players expected to be HOF'ers. One of the guys seriously questioned his overall impact, pointing to the fact he was never near the top of the league in OPS When he read stats of an "anonymous player" and then asked if that guy would be in the HOF, the other two guys in the discussion reacted with a "no way" look. Then it was revealed they were discussing Ichiro.

I believe he will easily get elected. But looking at blind stats alone it's a tough sell.

TL1961 · Dec 21, 2014

beckdawg said:
I feel like Montero could be better than Castillo. My issue is at the money he's making I don't think it's enough to warrant the difference. Either way I'm kind of over it. I don't think it's a disastrous move

I actually get a little ticked watching catchers frame pitches, because I think if it works. it means the ump is stupid, lazy or both.

But the fact is, it does work. (Unfortunately) I mean, it's really ridiculous to be thinking that the catcher determines whether a pitcher's pitch is a ball or strike. But if that's what's happening there's no reason not to take advantage of it.

Montero will supposedly be worth nearly as many runs saved as Lester. While i remain skeptical of the actual number, I am willing to concede that framers do, in fact, save runs. So that will be a plus over Castillo. (Before the Ross signing, I asked why Montero couldn't tech framing to Castillo, but Castillo had a mind boggling number of pitches hit his glove that he didn't even catch. How can you pull the ball into the zone when you don't even catch it.?)

CSF77 · Dec 21, 2014

TL1961 said:
I actually get a little ticked watching catchers frame pitches, because I think if it works. it means the ump is stupid, lazy or both.

But the fact is, it does work. (Unfortunately) I mean, it's really ridiculous to be thinking that the catcher determines whether a pitcher's pitch is a ball or strike. But if that's what's happening there's no reason not to take advantage of it.

Montero will supposedly be worth nearly as many runs saved as Lester. While i remain skeptical of the actual number, I am willing to concede that framers do, in fact, save runs. So that will be a plus over Castillo. (Before the Ross signing, I asked why Montero couldn't tech framing to Castillo, but Castillo had a mind boggling number of pitches hit his glove that he didn't even catch. How can you pull the ball into the zone when you don't even catch it.?)

I think it has to do with Castillo may net a quality player on a return. His highest value is what he brings back vs backing up. He is a league starter and his value will drop as a back up later on when they try to trade him due to his pending F/A.

brett05 · Dec 21, 2014

SilenceS said:
I will say that Montero according to sabers saved the DBacks 24 runs according to his pitch framing. Something like 600 balls were called strike last season when he was catching. I have always backed Castillo but he does catch the ball weird sometimes where they arent called strikes. theo and Jed are all about the Sabers. Im 99% positive that they have a computer program that sets the Cubs lineup. Joe Maddon fits their philosophy because he believes in Sabers just as much.

So....you are saying....any guy that can click an icon can run the team?

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