2015 Cubs Offseason Discussion

CSF77 said:

Boston would a bad choice. They will end up going into a rebuild after popi and Pedrodia get older. This team doesn't have a strong youth movement backing it.

Sure in the next 3 years Boston may have 1-2 shots at it but over a 6 year deal they would be getting long in the tooth. Cubs on the other hand are just getting started and 6 years they would be peaking. If I'm Lester I'm looking over a 6 year window and Boston would be in turn over 1/2 way through and Cubs would be a build up and peaking during contract.

On Price: It depends on if Wood bounces back. He is somewhere inbetween 2013-2014. He is not an All star for sure but he is not this 5.00+ ERA guy either. He had a few problems. BB went up by 1. He lost 1 MPH on his cutter. But most pitchers loose a mph or 2 when going with a cutter as a primary pitch. So control was the biggest issue and luck. Hos BABIP went up by 72 points IIR. That is beyond normal.

Like I said if he finds himself 1/2 way between where he was he makes a decent #5 starter in the league at a 2-3 mil cost. Ramirez and Edwards both have strong potential to be dominate players. Ramirez was shut down in which ever role he was put into and to boot did close and proved he can handle it. Edwards is a TOR potential. Most teams would want to see what he might become.

I personally do not believe that 1 year of any player is worth giving up a player like Bryant or Russell. Even Soler for that matter. All 3 could be all starts in a year or 2. And the Cubs would be looking like dumb asses if Price moved on.

Click to expand...

I wonder why the Cubs aren't making other moves besides Lester? Is there a reason why they can't strike first and get the other pitcher and/or Johnny Gomes if that is who they are wanting?

I would think it might be easier to land someone if they see commitment to improving the team. At least I would look at it that way if I am Lester. And also, lets say that is was Gomes and Hammel. Two guys that were team mates of his.

Don't think for a minute that he doesn't know that Boston has laid out an offer for Sandoval. In fact, they probably told him.

99.9% of players go with the money. Dont get caught up on showing you are willing to sign. Patience man. We havent even gotten to winter meetings.

I also believe we will be a mystery team for Max Scherzer.

Parade_Rain said:

You know, I have always wondered about this. Outside of proper muscle development to stabilize the arm motion, I don't get the needing meat on his bones. Randy Johnson was an absolute stick.

Click to expand...

He was thinner but by no means a stick. See Alexei Ramirez when he was brought up to the White Sox. He was so thin fans thought he was the first female player.

CSF77 said:

Boston would a bad choice. They will end up going into a rebuild after popi and Pedrodia get older. This team doesn't have a strong youth movement backing it.

Click to expand...

Let's break that down.

Sure in the next 3 years Boston may have 1-2 shots at it but over a 6 year deal they would be getting long in the tooth.

Click to expand...

So for the next three years the Red Sox are the better choice. So for the first half of the contract where Lester is the most productive he'd be in good to great shape with the Red Sox.

Cubs on the other hand are just getting started and 6 years they would be peaking.

Click to expand...

And getting ready to shell out record contracts all over the place for the specs that blossomed. Plus Lester would be on the downside those last three years and not be a major contributor even if the Cubs found a way to sustain a $250 million dollar payroll.

If I'm Lester I'm looking over a 6 year window and Boston would be in turn over 1/2 way through and Cubs would be a build up and peaking during contract.

Click to expand...

Unless he gets blown away, Boston is the easy choice here.

On Price: It depends on if Wood bounces back. He is somewhere inbetween 2013-2014. He is not an All star for sure but he is not this 5.00+ ERA guy either. He had a few problems. BB went up by 1. He lost 1 MPH on his cutter. But most pitchers loose a mph or 2 when going with a cutter as a primary pitch. So control was the biggest issue and luck. Hos BABIP went up by 72 points IIR. That is beyond normal.

Click to expand...

Wood is a punching bag in the AL.

Like I said if he finds himself 1/2 way between where he was he makes a decent #5 starter in the league at a 2-3 mil cost.

Click to expand...

Finding a decent #5 starter is cake. Sorry, zero trade value here.

Ramirez and Edwards both have strong potential to be dominate players. Ramirez was shut down in which ever role he was put into and to boot did close and proved he can handle it. Edwards is a TOR potential. Most teams would want to see what he might become.

Click to expand...

problem is that neither are anything special than what almost every team already has.

brett05 said:

Let's break that down.



So for the next three years the Red Sox are the better choice. So for the first half of the contract where Lester is the most productive he'd be in good to great shape with the Red Sox.


And getting ready to shell out record contracts all over the place for the specs that blossomed. Plus Lester would be on the downside those last three years and not be a major contributor even if the Cubs found a way to sustain a $250 million dollar payroll.




Unless he gets blown away, Boston is the easy choice here.



Wood is a punching bag in the AL.


Finding a decent #5 starter is cake. Sorry, zero trade value here.



problem is that neither are anything special than what almost every team already has.

Click to expand...

Thats a bold statement. Edwards has ace stuff. His frame is his concern. He weighed 40 pounds more. You are talking a top 10 spec. He has video game numbers in the minors. He was named AFL all star. He allows 2 runs in seven innings.

This is his career minor league numbers.
1.86 ERA 237 IP .957 WHIP 294 SO's 91 Walks and the biggest number to me. 2 homeruns. 2 homeruns in his whole minor league career he has allowed. That is just nuts. He has dominated every where he has pitched. I wouldnt say even half the teams have a player like him.

Ramirez may be more likely to duplicate, but cost controlled 25 year old pitcher that is the future closer isnt easy to replicate either. 43 innings 1.44 ERA 1.053 WHIP and the biggest tell tale sign for a young pitch 3.12 SO/W ratio. Not bad for a rookie season.

Lets not act like they arent better then your average joe.

SilenceS said:

Thats a bold statement. Edwards has ace stuff. His frame is his concern. He weighed 40 pounds more. You are talking a top 10 spec. He has video game numbers in the minors. He was named AFL all star. He allows 2 runs in seven innings.

This is his career minor league numbers.
1.86 ERA 237 IP .957 WHIP 294 SO's 91 Walks and the biggest number to me. 2 homeruns. 2 homeruns in his whole minor league career he has allowed. That is just nuts. He has dominated every where he has pitched. I wouldnt say even half the teams have a player like him.

Ramirez may be more likely to duplicate, but cost controlled 25 year old pitcher that is the future closer isnt easy to replicate either. 43 innings 1.44 ERA 1.053 WHIP and the biggest tell tale sign for a young pitch 3.12 SO/W ratio. Not bad for a rookie season.

Lets not act like they arent better then your average joe.

Click to expand...

Let's not act like they are. Good young pitchers don't always sit in the minors either. They produce for the parent clubs.

This entire board as far as I can tell and I am totally willing to be corrected, overrate the pitching of the Cubs.

brett05 said:

Let's not act like they are. Good young pitchers don't always sit in the minors either. They produce for the parent clubs.

This entire board as far as I can tell and I am totally willing to be corrected, overrate the pitching of the Cubs.

Click to expand...

Who is overrating them. CJ Edwars was ranked from the 30's on up to just outside the top 15 in top 100 list. Ramirez was a fringe top 100 that produced really well in the majors. You just dont want to give them credit. To say these two guys are nothing much is just foolish and complete hater blockers.

Edwards – No. 28 on Baseball America’s Top 100 prospects list – grew up in Prosperity, S.C., and graduated from Mid-Carolina High School. He developed a feel for pitching while competing against the older guys in the men’s league. He is the exception at a time when kids are overhyped and overanalyzed and the game has mushroomed into a showcase-industrial complex.

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/out-nowhere-cubs-see-bright-future-cj-edwards

Baseball America ranks Edwards 28th overall, 13th-best among pitching prospects while ESPN.com has him at 67th among all prospects. Either way, he's the Cubs' best chance at finding an ace from their farm system at this point. And finding a pitcher like that is as needed as any part of their rebuilding plan.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/tag/_/name/cj-edwards

Law has always been the most skeptical about him. I know he was ranked top 20 in another list, but that guy admitted his love for him.

SilenceS said:

Who is overrating them. CJ Edwars was ranked from the 30's on up to just outside the top 15 in top 100 list. Ramirez was a fringe top 100 that produced really well in the majors. You just dont want to give them credit. To say these two guys are nothing much is just foolish and complete hater blockers.

Click to expand...

They are nothing special is what I said...far cry from nothing much.

SilenceS said:

Edwards – No. 28 on Baseball America’s Top 100 prospects list – grew up in Prosperity, S.C., and graduated from Mid-Carolina High School. He developed a feel for pitching while competing against the older guys in the men’s league. He is the exception at a time when kids are overhyped and overanalyzed and the game has mushroomed into a showcase-industrial complex.

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/out-nowhere-cubs-see-bright-future-cj-edwards

Baseball America ranks Edwards 28th overall, 13th-best among pitching prospects while ESPN.com has him at 67th among all prospects. Either way, he's the Cubs' best chance at finding an ace from their farm system at this point. And finding a pitcher like that is as needed as any part of their rebuilding plan.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/tag/_/name/cj-edwards

Law has always been the most skeptical about him. I know he was ranked top 20 in another list, but that guy admitted his love for him.

Click to expand...

Thanks. So your links show he's about mid pack not including guys from the 2014 draft, or guys recently added to the major league rosters. That's what I am saying.

Just so there is no confusion. It doesn't mean CJ can't be a TOR. I'm just comparing him to pitchers in his class and above based on age.

#1: Lucas Giolito 10-2 2.20 ERA 98 IP 28 BB 110 SO 1.00 WHIP
#2 Archie Bradley 3-7 4.45 ERA 83 IP 49 BB 75 SO 1.51 WHIP
#3 Noah Syndergaard 9-7 4.60 ERA 133 IP 43 BB 145 SO 1.48 BB (played in Vegas which is plain bad to pitching)
#4 John Grey 10-5 3.91 ERA 124 IP 41 BB 113 SO 1.19 WHIP
#5 Dylan Bundy 1-3 3.24 ERA 41 IP 16 BB 37 SO 1.31 WHIP
#6 Tyler Glasnow 12-5 1.74 ERA 124 IP 57 BB 157 SO 1.05 WHIP (should be ranked higher #2 IMO)
#7 Robert Stepenson 7-10 4.74 ERA 136 IP 74 BB 140 SO 1.38 WHIP (not getting this ranking)
#8 Kohl Stewart 3-5 2.59 ERA 87 IP 24 BB 62 SO 1.14 WHIP
#9 Tyler Kolek 0-3 4.50 ERA 22 IP 13 BB 18 SO 1.59 WHIP
#10 Eddie Butler 6-10 3.99 ERA 117 IP 37 BB 69 SO 1.29 WHIP

C.J. Edwards # 53 prospect on MLB.com
Scouting grades: Fastball: 65 | Curveball: 60 | Changeup: 50 | Control: 55 | Overall: 55
Texas nabbed Edwards, who was lightly scouted in high school, in the 48th round of the 2011 Draft. He quickly developed into much more than a typical 48th-round pick, and he was a key component to the package the Rangers sent to the Cubs in exchange for Matt Garza in July '13. Edwards has shown electric stuff with his new organization, though shoulder inflammation has limited his innings this year.

Edwards throws his fastball in the low-to-mid 90s, and it can touch 97 mph. He does a good job of keeping his fastball down in the zone, and he only gave up one home run in 116 1/3 innings in 2013. Edwards' best offspeed pitch is his 12-to-6 curveball, and his changeup has improved as a professional.

Edwards is skinny, and some scouts question his long-term durability as a result. If he can prove that won't be a problem, his stuff is good enough to make him a front-line starter.

1-2 2.35 ERA 53 IP 25 BB 54 SO 1.06 WHIP.

His injury caused some concern. No one doubts his talent but it is his durability that is causing his lower rankings. MLB.com keeps injured players ranked high so that did not affect his ranking much. But it relates to his durability that he is not in the top 10. That top 10 is not that far separated from his talent. To be honest he could be in there just on his talent alone.

brett05 said:

Just so there is no confusion. It doesn't mean CJ can't be a TOR. I'm just comparing him to pitchers in his class and above based on age.

Click to expand...

By most accounts if he's a starter he does have an off chance to be as high as a #2 but that's still an off chance. Given his frame and the fear of injury of all slightly framed pitchers it's more likely that he'll be a high quality back end reliever. There's really no one anymore that doubts his ability to be a major league pitcher though. Is he special? I have no idea, he does seem like a special kid though.

TC in Mississippi said:

By most accounts if he's a starter he does have an off chance to be as high as a #2 but that's still an off chance. Given his frame and the fear of injury of all slightly framed pitchers it's more likely that he'll be a high quality back end reliever. There's really no one anymore that doubts his ability to be a major league pitcher though. Is he special? I have no idea, he does seem like a special kid though.

Click to expand...

No relievers not named Mo or Kimbrel are special. He could be and that is fine, but that doesn;t help the trade market IMO

http://calltothepen.com/2014/11/20/...make-jordan-zimmermann-doug-fister-available/

This just popped up today. ..

My thoughts are if the cubs dont get Lester, i wouldn't mind seeing them try and get 1 if not both depending the prospects cost if they can get an extension ...

@Cubs: #Cubs selected the contract of RHP C.J. Edwards from Double-A Tennessee. Our 40-man roster now stands at 39 players. pic.twitter.com/1J0vLmkuka

Seems strange they took this long to add Edwards and still have an open spot left...
Just makes me wonder if maybe there a trade or signing in the works tonight to fill out the roster before midnight. .

Dave Martinez out as a potential Rays manager, wonder if Maddon hires him as bench coach now

chibears55 said:

Dave Martinez out as a potential Rays manager, wonder if Maddon hires him as bench coach now

Click to expand...

Does Sandberg's ex still live in Chicago?

TL1961 said:

Does Sandberg's ex still live in Chicago?

Click to expand...

Sorry.. this is like 30 yrs old. . Time to move on, not funny anymore

Man, aside from the, out of nowhere, signing of Maddon, this has been a lame off season so far...