Bulls make offer for Kevin Martin?

RamiTheBullsFan

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Rose-Butler-Gay-Noah-Gasol in my opinion is superior to Rose-Martin-Butler-Gibson-Noah

but I guess in a way its apples to apples. The versatility of Butler makes adding either one about the same effect, except with Gay the salary is much higher and costs us moving Gibson as well.

Gay is better for now, Martin keeps the possiblity of holding Gibson long term, but is that really in our best interest? Maybe.....I'm on board with Martin. The expendability of Snell/Dunleavy could largely be a good sign of the teams excitement about MCBuckets.

But I guess its not surprising Snell is becoming a chip to just toss away.

You seem a little Gay for Gay.

...not that there's anything wrong with that
 

clonetrooper264

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Kevin Martin is a terrible defender, but what he brings offensively would make the Bulls one of the best offensive teams in the NBA.

-Extremely one-dimensional player.
-can shoot and slash.
-gets to the free throw line often and high percentage.

You've gotta make this trade if the option is there. Trading Dunleavy and Snell means more minutes for McDermott, too.
If any Kyle Korver and Carlos Boozer can be on teams that call themselves the best defensive team in the NBA, Martin should be able to as well. With Thibs coaching, any offensive minded player can still be useful.
 

Papa Wheelie

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Kmart can definitely score. Here's some highlights from this past season if anyone wants to check it out. He's got a goofy shot though. But his size might be big enough for Thibs to make him a little better defensively. He does play the passing lanes well defensively however as the video shows.

[video=youtube;ZxD2-rTU1C4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxD2-rTU1C4[/video]
 

areyouserious

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He'll be good if he comes off the bench as quick offense. But he'll give up points on defense.
 

RC_Skinny22

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As much as I loved watching Snell in the summer league, you do that trade in a hurry!

Martin is just on another level offensively ...
 

Raskolnikov

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As much as I loved watching Snell in the summer league, you do that trade in a hurry!

Martin is just on another level offensively ...

I hadn't thought about it like that because teams have started him since his Sacramento days. He was on championship caliber teams very early. But yeah....he would be helpful as a 6th man, and would fit nicely with the bench mob of Brooks-Martin-McBuckets-Mirotic-Gasol I don't know how you would stop anybody, but you could certainly keep pace with most teams until Rose is rested.
 

Raskolnikov

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just please keep Butler fresh!! The dude is an athlete above when healthy and rested, and an offensive liability when his athleticism is gone.
 

clonetrooper264

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I hadn't thought about it like that because teams have started him since his Sacramento days. He was on championship caliber teams very early. But yeah....he would be helpful as a 6th man, and would fit nicely with the bench mob of Brooks-Martin-McBuckets-Mirotic-Gasol I don't know how you would stop anybody, but you could certainly keep pace with most teams until Rose is rested.
One of those dudes in your bench mob has to start if we're trading Dunleavy. Logic says it would be Martin, but either way, that offense would be a very welcome addition to the team. Again, defense is a thing we won't have to worry about too much with Thibs on the sideline. He'll find a way to hide him.
 

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One of those dudes in your bench mob has to start if we're trading Dunleavy. Logic says it would be Martin, but either way, that offense would be a very welcome addition to the team. Again, defense is a thing we won't have to worry about too much with Thibs on the sideline. He'll find a way to hide him.

oh yeah....or Gasol. Rose-Butler-Gibson-Gasol-Noah is odd. yeah.......staggered starters could look nice. I think you have your ace unit...but two good pairings would be



Rose-Martin-Butler-Gibson-Noah and Moore-Butler McBuckets-Mirtotic-Gasol


I'm gonna stop because you can make lineups for days with our current group. I suppose Dunleavy is expendable, I'd just like to make sure about McBuckets first and Mirotic and see what you actually need most from the Dunleavy-Snell- and picks move.

Our choices are made after that, and no take backs. We are deep and rich in assets, lets just wait, keep both Rose and Butler fresher, and make a move at the trade deadline.
 

clonetrooper264

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oh yeah....or Gasol. Rose-Butler-Gibson-Gasol-Noah is odd. yeah.......staggered starters could look nice. I think you have your ace unit...but two good pairings would be

Rose-Martin-Butler-Gibson-Noah and Moore-Butler McBuckets-Mirtotic-Gasol

We still have Brooks and Hinrich ahead of Moore on the depth chart, but yeah I get your point.

I'm gonna stop because you can make lineups for days with our current group.
Yes we could lol...it's a pretty nice thing to have actually.

I suppose Dunleavy is expendable, I'd just like to make sure about McBuckets first and Mirotic and see what you actually need most from the Dunleavy-Snell- and picks move.

Our choices are made after that, and no take backs. We are deep and rich in assets, lets just wait, keep both Rose and Butler fresher, and make a move at the trade deadline.
Some would argue we don't really have that many assets...though those are far more pessimistic than most in all likelihood. Imo Dunleavy is easily the most expendable player on the roster. His skill set is easily replaced by McDermott. To me, shooting is something that will easily translate from college to the NBA and given that Dunleavy's role is a spot up shooter or catch and shoot of a screen shooter, I think McDermott can seamlessly fill that role with his shooting ability. You don't even need Mirotic to pan out theoretically as you still have the ability to play Butler at SF with Hinrich playing SG...or two PG lineup with Rose and Brooks (or Hinrich) and then you can throw Moore in there if he's any good and Hinrich/Brooks isn't cutting it. It's a good situation depth wise...lots of flexibility, even if we lose 2 players for 1. Personally, I'd rather have Martin sooner rather than later because Minnesota will probably play him more than Thibs will which makes the injury risk slightly higher, but that's just me.
 

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haha, I just wish we would throw out all the Heinrich lineups but I am not being fair. Dude has been an absolute warrior for us, I should stop trying to replace him, his passion feeds Noah and Heinrich always got under Wade and Kobe's skin so he was doing something right.

I think Martin is softer than Dunleavy, but a more diverse shooter and silky passer. Still...Dunleavy makes very few mistakes. Is that really the player we need to use Dunleavy to get because it seems like a slightly lateral move that forces Butler to play more SF, and ends up taking time away from McD anyway.
 

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I think Martin is softer than Dunleavy, but a more diverse shooter and silky passer. Still...Dunleavy makes very few mistakes. Is that really the player we need to use Dunleavy to get because it seems like a slightly lateral move that forces Butler to play more SF, and ends up taking time away from McD anyway.
I disagree. You don't really have to take minutes away from McDermott to play Martin. You can basically sub them out for each other. Then who subs for Butler you ask? Well, you could run a few minutes with Martin and McDermott together. OMG BUT THE PERIMETER D WILL SUCK! It's cool, just play Noah and Gibson to save their behinds for the 5 minutes they're together no big deal. Also you have Rose and Hinrich who are good defenders so you can rotate on of them on a bigger offensive threat if the need truly arises. There's also throwing Hinrich out there with Martin/McDermott (so a Rose or Brooks/Hinrich/Martin or McD backcourt) so there's a little bit of defensive ability on the floor if you really want that. Also there's nothing wrong with playing Butler at SF...in fact, a lot of people here would prefer that anyway. The offensive upgrade you get from Martin will be more than you would ever get from Dunleavy and the defensive drop off is really quite small. Dunleavy isn't really a defender either, so it's either really good offense and below average defense or average offense and slightly below average defense. I think the pros outweigh the cons there.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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Trading Dunleavy (SF/SG) and Snell (SG) for Martin (SG) would not limit McDermott's (SF) minutes. Against small line-ups, McD could possibly be an effective stretch 4.
 

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If any Kyle Korver and Carlos Boozer can be on teams that call themselves the best defensive team in the NBA, Martin should be able to as well. With Thibs coaching, any offensive minded player can still be useful.

All it takes is some effort and Martin can be a passable defender. Korver was atrocious defensively before his tutelage under Thibs, and now I feel he's one of the the more underrated defenders in the league. Boozer just never had the desire to put forth the effort on defense.

Overall, this would be a good trade imho. Martin's injury history is a concern but if you can get a player of his offensive ability for an expiring and a late first rounder, you pull the trigger.
 

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Isn't this a stale month old rumor?

The Bulls would never do it because Martin has years on his contract besides being injury prone. That would take away the flexibility they could use next Summer, Dunleavy and Hinrich with expiring deals, they look at how much Butler, Snell and McDermott developed over this season, do they keep them all or do one or two progress so they can one of the three. Does Mirotic adapt to the NBA game. There's no way they want to be stuck with Martin or have to try and move him.
 

clonetrooper264

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Isn't this a stale month old rumor?

The Bulls would never do it because Martin has years on his contract besides being injury prone. That would take away the flexibility they could use next Summer, Dunleavy and Hinrich with expiring deals, they look at how much Butler, Snell and McDermott developed over this season, do they keep them all or do one or two progress so they can one of the three. Does Mirotic adapt to the NBA game. There's no way they want to be stuck with Martin or have to try and move him.
In theory he's the missing piece so there's no need to move him.
 

Papa Wheelie

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Isn't this a stale month old rumor?

The Bulls would never do it because Martin has years on his contract besides being injury prone. That would take away the flexibility they could use next Summer, Dunleavy and Hinrich with expiring deals, they look at how much Butler, Snell and McDermott developed over this season, do they keep them all or do one or two progress so they can one of the three. Does Mirotic adapt to the NBA game. There's no way they want to be stuck with Martin or have to try and move him.

I agree that this is the reason to not make the trade. 3 years at $7 mil when he'll be turning 32 this season is something the Bulls might not want. All depends on what direction GarPax wants to take.
 

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It appears Minn is looking at a sign and trade for Eric Bledsoe. I would think the reason for the Martin to Chicago rumor is Minn needs to either make a trade to clear some cap space for Bledsoe or they think the Bulls could be part of a three way deal to make cap room for him. What could change things would be if Minn needs the Bulls to be involved bad enough to sign and trade for Bledsoe they have to include a couple of draft picks along with Martin then he looks a little more tolerable.
 

clonetrooper264

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It appears Minn is looking at a sign and trade for Eric Bledsoe. I would think the reason for the Martin to Chicago rumor is Minn needs to either make a trade to clear some cap space for Bledsoe or they think the Bulls could be part of a three way deal to make cap room for him. What could change things would be if Minn needs the Bulls to be involved bad enough to sign and trade for Bledsoe they have to include a couple of draft picks along with Martin then he looks a little more tolerable.
I think you'd do that trade regardless of who you were at that point. Minnesota is not projected to be a very good team so to get at worst a late lotto pick AND Kevin Martin just so they can sign Bledsoe (good, but hardly a great player) is a fantastic opportunity, but especially so for the Bulls as Martin fills a need.

If Martin was what put us over the top for a title this season, I'd live with losing to Cleveland the next two years due to injuries and age because at least we got a title out of it...that's really the most you could ever ask out of any kind of move.
 

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