Justin Masterson?

dreadpirateroberts

dreadpirateroberts

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With the offseason just right around the corner, I thought to myself who should the Cubs sign. We all know the Jon Lester and Russell Martin rumors but why not pursue some other names.

A name that popped in my mind was Justin Masterson. Yes, that Justin Masterson. The one who was once an ace but now is in the bullpen? Yes. But why should the Cubs sign him? Well, the Cubs could be in a low-money, high reward situation with him.

He would not be the big signing for the Cubs. Jon Lester would.

They would offer him a two year, Jason Hammel type deal but it would not affect the Cubs' future if they decide to release him.

If he can get his mind straight in the offseason, work with Bosio, and have a strong spring training, the Cubs could have a steal in the their hands.

I mean it is worth a try.

Thoughts? Opinions?
 
CSF77

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They need a 1 or a 2 and a 3.

If they sign Lester he becomes the Ace. Even though Arrieta IMO just becomes more proven next year.

So target #1 is Lester just because Jake is putting up ace production but has no track record.

After that Hendricks needs to be the #4. Right now he is the #2. Thus they need a 2nd arm.

So IMO there is 2 solutions:

1: Spend 130 mil on Lester then spend for a proven vet. Even another flyer on Hammel works here for 6 mil.
2: Spend 100 mil on Maeda. then sign Liriano as a 2 or 3 depending how Maeda translates.

Now on Masterson he would fall as another option on #1. But Hammel has had sucess as a Cub and there is a history going on here. Masterson only if he came over at 6 mil with a potential extension.

It is possible.

It comes down to is he fixable or not. If is is losing MPH I would pass. If it was sequence or location than that is fixable.
 
CSF77

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found:

been watching him his whole time in cleveland. the problem is that he cant consistently repeat his delivery on a pitch by pitch basis. his plant is different almost every pitch and his left shoulder drops. arm slot doesnt matter since he uses that to get so much movement on his fastball. repeating the plant foot is the key to his success.
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also seems like his fastball is around 87 MPH. I would pass. They already have enough problems with Jackson and Wood add Turner and Doubront. To deal with another project.

They need stability.
 

beckdawg

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Masterson was never really an ace. When he was good he was a faux ace which is more like Garza was which is to say more of a #2 or #3 on a good team. As for him with chicago, I think it entirely depends on the market for him. He was drafted by Theo and traded to Cleveland for Victor Martinez. So, connecting the team with him makes a bit of sense. However, I think given this season you need to be talking about a Hammels/Maholm/Feldman level deal.

There's also the additional issue of starters. At present time the cubs already have more than enough options for their back of the rotation. They traded for Turner and Felix Doubrnt. so they will be in the mix. If we assume Hendricks and Arrieta are locks given their performance you also have decisions to make on Jackson, Wood, and Wada. There's also Beeler, Jokish, Ramirez and Grimm(stretched out from the pen) as plays you could consider. Typically, I think teams like to have between 7-8 potential starters to protect against injury. As you can obviously count they're roughly there already in terms of numbers and that's prior to adding a fron line starter which is expected.

Some of those pitchers such as Turner are out of options so they can't just toss him in AAA. Jokish is rule 5 eligible so he has to be on the 40 man if they want to protect him. There's a lot of considerations to be made there.
 
JZsportsfan

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I think the Cubs are filled with a number of potential 3-5 guys. They need help at the top. As far as pitching goes, it is really Lester or bust IMO. Scherzer isn't really a realistic option because he doesn't have a ring, connection to the front office, and should receive a crazy amount in $$ and years. A Lester/Arrieta duo at the top should be good enough to give the Cubs a realistic shot at a WC spot next year depending on how everything else plays out. Theoretically replacing Jackson with Lester should be at least a 5 win difference regardless of what WAR tells me.
 
CSF77

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That is true. It comes down to if they feel they are going to compete next year or are they planning to not be competitive.

Basically if they dump 130 mil on Lester than it creates a domino effect. Like Bryant promoting early. They have to justify the investment. At that point you don't mess around with a problem. You look to add.

The whole depth of Grimm etc.... No if they were expected starters than they would be starting. Right now they gave the opportunity to Turner and Felix. Turner scares me with his 1.50 WHIP. That is a big issue. Felix was damn good up until today and it was elevating his pitches on a wind blow out day. I don't like that he is not a SO pitcher which is why he is a bottom of the rotation.

What should happen is they need to go after Lester and a 1 year deal on a proven vet. Like Lester, Arrieta, Liriano, Hendricks, Doubront. Jackson goes into long relief. End of the pen stays the same. Jokish become Jackson's LH counter part.

Wood they try to trade. No takers they don't offer arb. Arrieta they should ink him to a 5 year extension. He wants to be a Cub. Should be a no brainer.

O wise they should for the most part stand pat. Both Cog and Castro run OBA's around .340 so it gives RBI ops to Rizzo, Soler and Baez. Just moving Baez down to #5 helps with run production. After Bryant promotes the run production should boost again.


I really don't see the need to add a bat with Russell and Bryant that close. On the other hand Edwards is a injury risk and I would not bet on him.
 
SilenceS

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dreadpirateroberts said:
With the offseason just right around the corner, I thought to myself who should the Cubs sign. We all know the Jon Lester and Russell Martin rumors but why not pursue some other names.

A name that popped in my mind was Justin Masterson. Yes, that Justin Masterson. The one who was once an ace but now is in the bullpen? Yes. But why should the Cubs sign him? Well, the Cubs could be in a low-money, high reward situation with him.

He would not be the big signing for the Cubs. Jon Lester would.

They would offer him a two year, Jason Hammel type deal but it would not affect the Cubs' future if they decide to release him.

If he can get his mind straight in the offseason, work with Bosio, and have a strong spring training, the Cubs could have a steal in the their hands.

I mean it is worth a try.

Thoughts? Opinions?
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I mean if the Cubs could get him for a year or maybe two worht less then 6 mill then sure but I dont think. He has lost velocity and he has only been ace like for a year and it wasnt this year.
 
JZsportsfan

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I think it's time for the Cubs to stop trying to get bounce back guys and get guys that they can count on to win playoff games. Masterson would have been perfect two years ago but now it's time to compete. Arrieta-Hendricks is a good start. Arrieta is has proven to be a potential TOR guy, and Hendricks has shown he can be a MOR guy. Cubs have plenty of options at the back end. A #1 and a #3 is what the Cubs need
 
chibears55

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JZsportsfan said:
I think it's time for the Cubs to stop trying to get bounce back guys and get guys that they can count on to win playoff games. Masterson would have been perfect two years ago but now it's time to compete. Arrieta-Hendricks is a good start. Arrieta is has proven to be a potential TOR guy, and Hendricks has shown he can be a MOR guy. Cubs have plenty of options at the back end. A #1 and a #3 is what the Cubs need
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Agree.. if they sign pitchers it needs to be for long term, not anymore 1 yr deals and hope he wins 10 games
 
JZsportsfan

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If the Cubs signed Lester and Liriano (Big if) a rotation of

1. Lester
2. Arrieta
3. Liriano
4. Hendricks
5. Dubront/Turner/Wood/ etc

would be good enough to make this team a contender IMO. Obviously a lot of other things need to go right with all the prospects, but the rotation would no longer be the problem. Can't wait for October and the offseason
 
CSF77

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JZsportsfan said:
If the Cubs signed Lester and Liriano (Big if) a rotation of

1. Lester
2. Arrieta
3. Liriano
4. Hendricks
5. Dubront/Turner/Wood/ etc

would be good enough to make this team a contender IMO. Obviously a lot of other things need to go right with all the prospects, but the rotation would no longer be the problem. Can't wait for October and the offseason
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It would depend in Liriano's health but when he is on he is a TOR.

Ya that rotation would be pretty good. At that point I would load the pen with power arms. That means I would convert Edwards into a pen arm. That should happen anyways.

Hitting wise they should add a catcher. I would stick with Cog in LF. He is not making that decision wrong by any means. Looking forward Bryant added with Russell. They would have Almora and Vogelbach with Olt as trade bait. For that matter they could just pack up Olt and Wood together to get a semi decent return.
 
Boobaby1

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CSF77 said:
It would depend in Liriano's health but when he is on he is a TOR.

Ya that rotation would be pretty good. At that point I would load the pen with power arms. That means I would convert Edwards into a pen arm. That should happen anyways.

Hitting wise they should add a catcher. I would stick with Cog in LF. He is not making that decision wrong by any means. Looking forward Bryant added with Russell. They would have Almora and Vogelbach with Olt as trade bait. For that matter they could just pack up Olt and Wood together to get a semi decent return.
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Go heavy for a TOR arm such as Shields, Lester or Scherzer, and then go after a Hammel, McCarthy, or if you want to really take a chance.....Brett Anderson.

A bat is a must in the outfield IMO, and as many know, I like Melky Cabrera. My other choices would be Mike Morse, or if the Orioles don't pick up his option, then I would go after Nick Markakis.

He, like Cabrera, possesses the much needed left handed balance, low SO rate, high OBP, and a good overall average. I would peg Coghlan for CF, and Alcantara as super sub, and definitely go after someone to man LF.

As far as catcher, I feel Pierzynski would be good on a one year ticket which would also put more of a power hitting left handed (compared to Baker) catcher in the line-up when Castillo has his days off.
 
JZsportsfan

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I don't really see Shields as the type of pitcher the Cubs need. He isn't really an ace IMO. I think Lester is really the Cubs only shot at a TOR arm this winter, via FA. As for the OF it really depends on what they want to do with Bryant. If he is going to be playing at 3B, then yes an OF bat needs to be added. If he is going to be in LF, then I would be content with giving Valbuena a shot to hold down 3B next season.

Hammel wouldn't be a bad fit again, but he isn't going to produce like he did this year in the 1st half. Cubs need to be adding guys that will help them in the playoffs.
 
CSF77

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JZsportsfan said:
I don't really see Shields as the type of pitcher the Cubs need. He isn't really an ace IMO. I think Lester is really the Cubs only shot at a TOR arm this winter, via FA. As for the OF it really depends on what they want to do with Bryant. If he is going to be playing at 3B, then yes an OF bat needs to be added. If he is going to be in LF, then I would be content with giving Valbuena a shot to hold down 3B next season.

Hammel wouldn't be a bad fit again, but he isn't going to produce like he did this year in the 1st half. Cubs need to be adding guys that will help them in the playoffs.
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They could also go after
Scherzer. 17-5 3.19 ERA, 214.1 IP 191 hits, 1.17 WHIP FIP: 2.86

He is legit ace and should get around 200 mil. 7 year deal around avg 25-30 mil. Figures that the Tigers traded for a year of Price. He is going to get paid.

Lester should get 6 year 130 mil range. He is the reasonable one.

Shields I'll bet the Yanks shoot for him. Yanks are not afraid of age issues. 15-9 3.18 ERA 221.0 IP 176 SO 42 BB FIP 3.55 Not bad. He is worth 18-22 mil per. He will be 33 next year so I could see a 4 year deal with he Yanks going at 80 mil.

All 3 are TOR types. Any of the 3 should get their ERA's dropping into the 2's in the NL

Next tier down would be Madea Scouts look at him as a MOR type. Low BB and AVG SO's. So a good comp would be Doug Fister. career BB9 1.4 SO9 6.1 Pretty decent comp.

I believe he will get between 80-120 mil depending on how the market plays. With most scouts figuring him to be a MOR he may end up a buy low and get solid return value.
 
JZsportsfan

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I wouldn't be disappointed by any means if the Cubs went out and got Madea but I'm ready for this team to turn the corner, and I'd rather them sign someone proven. Scherzer is the best SP available but I just don't see the Cubs putting up $200 M for a SP at this stage. Can get Lester + Liriano for less than that combined


But anybody other than Wood and Jackson. That duo is a guaranteed 3 losses every 10 days.
 
CSF77

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The question is if they trust Turner next year. I wouldn't pull his option.
 

beckdawg

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CSF77 said:
The question is if they trust Turner next year. I wouldn't pull his option.
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Why? It's what $1 mil? Even if he's shit in spring training that's nothing. Contrast him now and Arrreita before this season. Arrieta is making like $500k had never had an ERA under 4.66 in the majors and was set to be 28 and the hope from fans was he could be a #5 tops. Turner had a 3.74 ERA last year and is set to be 24. Keeping him around cost you at most just a slot on the 40 man roster. You don't claim him if you're not in this for at least the semi-long haul. 2 months of poor pitching really shouldn't be changing their plans or else the plan to trade for him was a poor one to begin with. It sucks that he's out of options but you're losing Villanueva anyways so the bullpen is going to need another long reliever. Additionally, it's not like Straily and Doubront have done enough to make their value clear over his. Without looking I'm not entirely sure on the option situation of other pitchers but it's really not that hard to work around so long as the team thinks he has a future which again must be the case if they claimed him in the first place. Also, comparatively $1 mil gets you absolutely nothing in FA.
 
CSF77

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Arreta throws 96 MPH not 92. Add to it in last years brief stint Jake showed potential. Turner is pushing a 1.50 WHIP. Very hittable pitches.

If he came in like Felix with over all solid outings with a hick up I wouldn't even have felt that way.

I'm putting him in the same box I'm putting Wood and Jackson. Don't need them and it would be a mistake to take up a roster spot.

They are better off investing into 2 SP this offseason.

I would rather they roll the dice with Hammel again before trusting Turner.

The only exception I can see is Turner as a MR. I can see that. He was decent in that role
 
CSF77

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The other problem with Turner is he is on a major league contract which is why he couldn't go down to the minors to get some work in like Felix did. He would have had to go through wavers.

Still 92 MPH FB I just do not see why this guy was even rated that high. His stuff is not impressive.
 
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