Epstein press Conference

beckdawg

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IF they bring Russell up this year, with Castro at SS, Baez at 2b, and Bryant at 3B where they playing Russell ?.

I really feel they would be smart to look at Baez at 3B in spring training. Between Watkins, Alcantara and Valbuena they have more than enough options for your typical 2B type. Russell and Castro would presumably be the two you want long term up the middle regardless of the situation. If you move Baez to third then it's just a question of which plays 2B and which plays SS but they don't have to worry about anyone really being in their way. At 3B, Baez would have a month or two probably before you even start to talk about Bryant simply because of your typical service clock implications. If he continues to play as poorly as he has in the majors then you're looking at sending him down after that period anyways. And if he does play poorly you still have Bryant as the logical successor.

I obviously don't hold out a ton of hope for him playing well but if he does you give him some exposure there and have a decision to make when Russelll is ready. Maybe Bryant to OF. Maybe trade someone but it's another option.
 

chibears55

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I really feel they would be smart to look at Baez at 3B in spring training. Between Watkins, Alcantara and Valbuena they have more than enough options for your typical 2B type. Russell and Castro would presumably be the two you want long term up the middle regardless of the situation. If you move Baez to third then it's just a question of which plays 2B and which plays SS but they don't have to worry about anyone really being in their way. At 3B, Baez would have a month or two probably before you even start to talk about Bryant simply because of your typical service clock implications. If he continues to play as poorly as he has in the majors then you're looking at sending him down after that period anyways. And if he does play poorly you still have Bryant as the logical successor.

I obviously don't hold out a ton of hope for him playing well but if he does you give him some exposure there and have a decision to make when Russelll is ready. Maybe Bryant to OF. Maybe trade someone but it's another option.

Epstein just said today thst Baez is their 2Bmen next year, so their not moving him to 3B in ST.

Going into 2015 3B will be Valbuena and Olt until Bryant arrives.
The question is if they go out and get a LFer like we all assume they will, are they going to keep Russell down until 2016 or should we expect a major trade of either Castro, Baez, or Russell come July 2015 ?
Assuming the LFer they sign is an everyday player signed long term..
 

SilenceS

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Ok.. I thought you were responding from my post about Alcantara...


I agree about Bryant but then if we are to assume that going into the off season they plan on Bryant eventually in LF if Russell makes the jump in 2015, does that mean they dont sign a major FA for LF ?

Cause im asking if they do bring in a major LFer on a long term deal, then what decision do they make with Russell if/when he ready to come up ?

Do they hold him down or look to deal Castro Baez or him ?

Ive been one to say that they will left Coughlan hold down left until they figure everything out.
 

CSF77

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Epstein just said today thst Baez is their 2Bmen next year, so their not moving him to 3B in ST.

Going into 2015 3B will be Valbuena and Olt until Bryant arrives.
The question is if they go out and get a LFer like we all assume they will, are they going to keep Russell down until 2016 or should we expect a major trade of either Castro, Baez, or Russell come July 2015 ?
Assuming the LFer they sign is an everyday player signed long term..

Well if they are willing to give up a pick:

Melky Cabrera wOBA: .354
Starlin Castro: wOBA: .341
Anthony Rizzo wOBA: .397
Jorge Soler wOBA: .386
Luis Valbuena wOBA: .342
Javier Baez wOBA: .248
Arismendy Alcantara wOBA: .275
Welington Castillo wOBA: .306

That is a direction they could go. It depends if they are willing to toss 30 mil to Melky.

Now the long term effect is it causes a log jam at 3B. No LF to dump Bryant. IMO it would dictate a trade of Castro when Russell is due.

IMO if they invest here it pushes Castro into a trade position. Now if they flip him for Syndagard then I'm cool with that. Russell looks top end D at SS.
 

chibears55

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Ive been one to say that they will left Coughlan hold down left until they figure everything out.
Epstein said today that Coghlan will have chance for a meaningful role...plus he wants to add talent to OF.

Doesn't sound like he looking at him to start in LF
 

SilenceS

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I highly doubt it. For one, Alcantara switch hits and as you well know they lack left handed hitters. For two, he makes whatever they eventually do easier because of his options to play in multiple areas. And finally for three, if you're read any reason comments from the club they've talked about adding speed and top of the order types since they already possess a lot of power. I also don't agree about your ceiling/floor comment but I'm pretty sure I've made my point there so I wont go into it more than to say I think people undervalue 20/20 types. Look at someone like Michael Brantley to see what Alcantara could be. At 6.6 fWAR fangraphs WAR model thinks he's the 3rd most valuable player in the game this year and thats with him playing what they consider poor defense.

If you get that out of CF then even if Baez also reaches his peak at 2B you're probably taking the 20/20 average defense CF over a 35 HR 2B if you're most teams. It's why someone like Byron Buxton is pretty routinely the #1 prospect in most people's eyes. And additionally, it's not like Alcantara even has to do much to be a 20/20 player. In 300 PAs he hit 10 HRs and had 8 steals. If you figure 650 PAs is typically you're average non-injury season he's almost sure to get there just doing what he's doing. Obviously, you want to see his triple slash improve greatly but there's a lot of room left on there to be a highly valuable player.

Alcantara had a 31% K rate this year with a 5.7% walk rate. Unless he knocks that down considerably, he is not a top of the order guy. Also, Buxton has a much greater skill set then Alcantara. Lets not over value there. You also say 20/20 goes unnoticed. No it doesnt. Its why Jayson Werth got his contract. Oh and when you talk about SB. Talk about SB rate. I dont give a fuck if a guy steals 30 bags, but if he isnt successful at least 75 percent of the time then it does harm to the team. Alcantara stole 8 and was caught 5 times. I like Alcantara, but I am willing to trade him if he bring up his value over other people. Baez has 40 homerun power. There were 2 guys in the NL who hits over 30 this year. I think its was 8 total for the whole league which is just insane. Baez has the ability to be just as flexible as Alcantara. Its up to the Cubs if they want to move him. It will all work itself out, but, I stand by my post that I would trade Alcantara over Baez, Bryant, or Soler.
 

chibears55

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Well if they are willing to give up a pick:

Melky Cabrera wOBA: .354
Starlin Castro: wOBA: .341
Anthony Rizzo wOBA: .397
Jorge Soler wOBA: .386
Luis Valbuena wOBA: .342
Javier Baez wOBA: .248
Arismendy Alcantara wOBA: .275
Welington Castillo wOBA: .306

That is a direction they could go. It depends if they are willing to toss 30 mil to Melky.

Now the long term effect is it causes a log jam at 3B. No LF to dump Bryant. IMO it would dictate a trade of Castro when Russell is due.

IMO if they invest here it pushes Castro into a trade position. Now if they flip him for Syndagard then I'm cool with that. Russell looks top end D at SS.
Whats the log jam at 3B ?

Bryant goes there ahead of Valbuena and Olt when he ready

The question would be what move they would make between Castro Baez and Russell once Russell is ready or do they keep Russell down til 2016 like they did with Bryant
 

CSF77

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Another idea that kinda makes sense:

Trade Castro and Jackson for Brett Gardner and Martin Prado. Cash matches up. Yanks get a replacement SS. Cubs move Alcantara back to 2B with Gardner leading off in CF. Then they could sign Cabrera to LF. This adds more LH to the team and sheds Jackson for Prado. Even swap. I would give the Yanks a decent prospect to facilitate it. Like Blackburn quality.

That would make the line up:

CF Gardner
LF: Cabrera
1B: Rizzo
RF: Soler
SS: Baez
3B: Valbuena
2B: Alcantara
C: Castillo
 

CSF77

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Whats the log jam at 3B ?

Bryant goes there ahead of Valbuena and Olt when he ready

The question would be what move they would make between Castro Baez and Russell once Russell is ready or do they keep Russell down til 2016 like they did with Bryant

Russell has 917 minor league AB's.
Bryant has 620 minor league AB's.
Alcantara: 2006 career minor league ab's.
Baez: 1216 AB's.

He is not that far off. Seeing how Bryant matches up it makes sense why they held him back. Russell rates as a 70 on hitting. He could be promoted next year with over 1200 ab's like Baez did.
 

chibears55

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Russell has 917 minor league AB's.
Bryant has 620 minor league AB's.
Alcantara: 2006 career minor league ab's.
Baez: 1216 AB's.

He is not that far off. Seeing how Bryant matches up it makes sense why they held him back. Russell rates as a 70 on hitting. He could be promoted next year with over 1200 ab's like Baez did.

Ok.. but where your log jam at 3B ? Bryant and Russell ?

If they go out and get a LFer, there no question Bryant playing 3B when he comes up..

The log jam will be in middle IF where then they would have to decide between Castro, Baez, and Russell

Russelll 20 YO with 240 AA AB and 13 AAA AB
Bryant 22 YO with 250 AA AB and 245 AAA AB
Plus most likely another 100 or so AAA AB before he called up

Im not saying they should keep Russell down til 2016 but being he just 20 and he most likely wouldn't get the call up til July/Aug
They may choose to leave him down
 

CSF77

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The log jam would be Castro at SS. Baez at 2B. Bryant at 3B then Russell at ? then.

Doing nothing they could put Bryant at LF and Russell at 3B.
 

CSF77

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Actually I like the Castro/Jackson for Prado & Gardener. I would even toss Olt in.

Yanks get 3B and SS with a SP. Lets A-Rod play DH full time.

Cubs then could put Prado at 3B or even LF if they chose. and Gardner at CF.

Theo was thinking of Olt as a corner guy but the Yanks need a long term 3B and Olt is cost controlled and pretty solid with the glove. Also they are going to need another SP and the Cubs need to get out of Jackson. Yanks having Ellsbury honestly lets them be able to use Gardner in a deal. Shot they could go after Melky if they wanted to then.
 

CSF77

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Ok.. but where your log jam at 3B ? Bryant and Russell ?

If they go out and get a LFer, there no question Bryant playing 3B when he comes up..

The log jam will be in middle IF where then they would have to decide between Castro, Baez, and Russell

Russelll 20 YO with 240 AA AB and 13 AAA AB
Bryant 22 YO with 250 AA AB and 245 AAA AB
Plus most likely another 100 or so AAA AB before he called up

Im not saying they should keep Russell down til 2016 but being he just 20 and he most likely wouldn't get the call up til July/Aug
They may choose to leave him down[
/QUOTE]

It has more to do with total AB's.

Seeing how he and Baez both were HS players using Baez as a blue print is a wise choice. Russell should have the struggles as he is more of a pure hitter while Baez is a free swinger.

Bryant IMO should have been called up. Soler was called up after 544 AB's and both are pretty polished products when they Cubs acquired them.

I'm expecting Bryant called up after the super 2 cut off date.

http://mlb.mlb.com/pa/info/faq.jsp
A: A player with three or more years of service, but less than six years, may file for salary arbitration. In addition, a player can be classified as a "Super Two" and be eligible for arbitration with less than three years of service. A player with at least two but less than three years of Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately preceding season and he ranks in the top 22 percent (increased from 17 percent in previous agreements) in total service in the class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season.

2014's super 2 cut off date was 2 years 128 days of service time.

Now this kind of matters with Bryant as he is represented by Boras who wants his clients to dictate their values on the open market.

This factors more:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-myth-of-six-years-of-team-control/

by Dave Cameron - March 24, 2014

Last week, Ken Rosenthal reported — and others have since confirmed — that the Astros offered top prospect George Springer a seven year, $23 million contract. He turned them down, and has since been optioned to Triple-A, where he will begin the season. Presumably, had he accepted the contract offer, he may very well have been named the Astros Opening Day right fielder, as the contract would have nullified the benefits of keeping him from accruing a full year of service time in 2014, and it’s not like the Astros have a better right fielder blocking his path at the moment. However, since Springer did not accept the contract, he’ll have to wait at least a few weeks to join the Astros, and potentially a few months if they decide to try and get him past the Super Two cutoff as well.

On the one hand, it’s easy to paint this as a picture of an organization acting in bad faith, using the carrot of a big league roster spot to try and coerce a young player into signing away his future earnings potential. The MLBPA is even considering filing a grievance on Springer’s behalf — even though he isn’t a member yet, since he is not on the Astros 40 man roster — over the issue, though it would be nearly impossible for them to prove intent given that Springer only has 266 plate appearances in Triple-A; optioning out a young player with Springer’s contact rate would be pretty easily defensible on merit alone. But the perception of impropriety still exists, due to the appearance that his demotion was directly tied to his decision to reject the Astros contract offer, whether that is actually true or not.

The Springer news has brought about another round of calls for reformation of the rules in order to remove the incentives for teams to keep their best young players in the minor leagues to begin the season, and I’m with the crowd who thinks that MLB is best served by allowing teams to make roster decisions based on talent and performance rather than worrying about accrued service time. I’d rather see George Springer play in April than whoever the Astros end up rolling out there on Opening Day. But for MLB and the MLBPA to come to any sort of consensus on this in the next CBA negotiations, everyone will first have to admit that the concept of six years of team control is basically a myth.

The opening paragraph of the CBA’s section on Free Agency — Article XX, Section B — states the following:

Following the completion of the term of his Uniform Player’s Contract, any Player with 6 or more years of Major League service who has not executed a contract for the next succeeding season shall become a free agent, subject to and in accordance with the provisions of this Section B.

Six or more years. The CBA does not say that a player is entitled to free agency after six years in the big leagues; it sets six years as a minimum for a player to be eligible for free agency. It explicitly states that players can have more than six of service before they are free agent eligible, but they cannot have fewer than six years. The six year line is a minimum, not a maximum, and nowhere in the CBA are players guaranteed free agency following their sixth calendar year in the Major Leagues.

The reality is that the rules, as they are written, give Major League teams control over a player’s rights for seven years, not six. And seven years of control is and has been the norm for nearly every player in MLB.

In MLBTradeRumors Arbitration Tracking tool, there are 179 players listed who were arb eligible this off-season. Of those 179, exactly 10 of them — 5.6% of the population — reached their service time level with the minimum number of days required and are on track to reach free agency with exactly six years of service. Six of the 10 are relief pitchers, who aren’t exactly going to hit it rich in free agency anyway. Only four currently active arbitration eligible regulars — Jason Heyward, Austin Jackson, Colby Rasmus, and Mike Leake — are on pace to reach free agency with the minimum level of service time. Everyone else is going to fall into the “or more” category, and will have had their rights controlled for seven seasons before they reach free agency, not six.

And this is why the Astros made George Springer a seven year contract offer. They already owned his rights for seven years. Teams can choose to forfeit one of those years of team control in exchange for a few extra weeks of production up front, but that’s simply not a good trade-off for big league teams to make, which is why almost no one does it. If the MLBPA wants to negotiate an end to service time manipulation in the next CBA, it will almost certainly have to agree to codify the seventh year of team control in order to do so. Because that seventh year of control already exists, for all intents and purposes.

Now, this isn’t to say that teams should be making young prospects take-it-or-head-to-the-minors offers. You don’t want the rules to allow teams to essentially force MLB ready players to sign bad contracts in order to get called up, but we should also acknowledge that there’s another interpretation of the facts here.

After all, we know that the contract offer to Springer was not made in isolation; the team reportedly also has made long term offers to both Robbie Grossman and Matt Dominguez, Major League players with minimal accomplishments at this point in their careers. As an organization, the Astros seem to be clearly betting on the positive expected value of signing early career contracts on the hopes that they get one big breakout star. If by locking up five young players, they avoid the massive cost escalation that would come from one of them developing into an All-Star, the savings from that one deal alone could cover the increased costs of signing the entire group.

In order to make this kind of bulk-buying strategy work, however, you have to actually get a pretty decent sized group of players to sign, and the Astros simply don’t have that many extension-worthy Major League players. One could even argue that Grossman himself is perhaps the least talented player we’ve ever seen offered a long term deal, and his inclusion in the group purchase strategy shows that the Astros have expanded their pool to include players who wouldn’t otherwise normally be extended offers at this point in their career.

Springer is certainly more talented than Grossman, and more worthy of a long term commitment from the franchise, but he’s also a prospect who has never hit in the big leagues before; based on MLB precedent, he too is an unusual candidate for a long term deal. The fact that the Astros offered a barely above replacement level guy like Grossman a multi-year deal suggests that perhaps their plan is less nefarious than it has been made out to be, and that they are simply attempting to limit their costs by applying Groupon’s business model to baseball players.

And keep in mind, these long term deals have nothing to do with short term cost savings. The Astros aren’t saving money in 2014 by sending Springer to Triple-A; they’ll have to pay at least the same league minimum salary to whoever plays right field as they would have had to pay to Springer. Their offer to Springer was about future cost savings, just like every other extension signed this winter. In pretty much every negotiation between team and player, the carrot that the team has to offer is guaranteed security now in exchange for a lower best-case scenario outcome if the player stays healthy and turns into a star. The Astros offered Springer $23 million worth of security for the rights to put a cap on his arbitration salaries, and likely to get an option or two on his first couple of free agent years. It doesn’t have to be viewed as a gun-to-his-head ultimatum tied to his desire to not spend a few more months in the minors.

More importantly, though, we should just accept the fact that Springer isn’t being robbed of anything that he has an actual claim to. The CBA does not give players the right to free agency after six years of team control. It gives him free agency after at least six years of team control, and that has developed into an accepted minimum of seven actual years for almost every player in baseball. There are very likely better ways to codify this so that teams wouldn’t have to option out top prospects for a few weeks at the beginning of their first year, but the first step to modifying the rules would be to accept that the window of team control is, in all practicality, actually seven years.
 

CSF77

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So I'm expecting them to call up Bryant after the cut off to get that 7th year of control. So a few weeks into the season. It is a fair trade off give up a few weeks to gain a 7th year. It would be dumb not to do it.
 

CSF77

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So looking it over:

George Springer debuted Apr 17. Around week 3. So that is a good gauge to expect Bryant.

So at that point we can just expect 3 weeks of Valbuena/Olt at 3B. After that point they become fodder.

Not with Theo saying Cog is in the mix...ya I'm expecting a add in LF. Add to it he said Baez is the opening day 2B and Castro is the opening day SS.

A good guess is they add a OBA LF. Cabrera would be a good bet here. Sense they are on phase 2 year 2 this year should be the final transition year and adding Cabrara makes sense.

So by week 3 they team should look like:

OF: Cabrera, Alcantara, Soler
IF: Bryant, Castro, Baez, Rizzo
C: Castillo

SP Arrieta, Hendricks, then a competition of Doubront, Turner, Wada to fill the last 2 spots.

The biggest questions is how they decide to deal with Jackson. 22 mil to absorb. Seeing how they are looking to compete there is 0% chance he is on the opening day roster. Wood also. I expect them pawned off or just cut/paid off.

Biggest question is who will they try to lure. I'm in the boat that says that Arrieta is a legit #1 and they do not need to find better. They need to find a legit #2 though.
some one who I would feel ok starting a series. Lester is my first pick but Maeda is another I would find ok. He is going to be better than Hendricks. Add to it they could just wait for Price to hit the market the next year anyways.
 

Parade_Rain

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My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Illinois Fighting Illini
...
SP Arrieta, Hendricks, then a competition of Doubront, Turner, Wada to fill the last 2 spots
...
Wada? I thought I read here that they weren't picking up his option?
 

CSF77

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Wada? I thought I read here that they weren't picking up his option?

I doubt they have made a final decision with him. Not picking up the option is a cash issue. They can still sign him to a MiLB deal with an invite. He was better than Turner.

I doubt Wada will be on anyone's radar.

IMO if they sign Madea it makes sense to have Wada in the rotation. 2 LH/3 RH add to it a fellow country man to adjust to America. If they get Lester then Turner makes sense then.
 

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