ESPN 500: Bulls 2014

The Hawk · Oct 24, 2014

Diddy1122 said:
ESPN 500
#10-6: (10) Dwight Howard; (9) James Harden; (8) Kevin Durant; (7) Kevin Love; (6) Stephen Curry

So not only does ESPN think Love & Curry are better than the reigning MVP, they think KD isn't even the BEST PLAYER ON HIS OWN TEAM! :rofl:

All that is left are Russell Westbrook, Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis, Chris Paul, and LeBron James. 1 & 2 are set with LeBron and CP3, in that order. My gut tells me the rest will be Westbrook, Griffin, then Davis.

The funniest thing is that they rate Howard and Harden 9 and 10. Talk about over-rating players, those two guys are the top of the heap.

FirstTimer · Oct 27, 2014

The Hawk said:
At the same age, you'd be very wrong unless you totally dismiss leadership and all around worth to a team. Cousins is not close in those two categories.

No. I'd rather have Cousins than Noah.

The Hawk · Oct 27, 2014

FirstTimer said:
No. I'd rather have Cousins than Noah.

Interesting that a recent poll of NBA GM's called Noah the best defensive player in the league.

RamiTheBullsFan · Oct 27, 2014

The Hawk said:
Interesting that a recent poll of NBA GM's called Noah the best defensive player in the league.

When did best "defensive player" suddenly become "best player"?

Rose and Cousins would destroy the league.

The Hawk · Oct 27, 2014

RamiTheBullsFan said:
When did best "defensive player" suddenly become "best player"?

Rose and Cousins would destroy the league.

Since Cousins isn't, that gives Noah up on him. The Bulls are by their nature a defensive team and are led by the defensive player of the year. You can go ahead and rate Cousins higher. But he isn't a leader of the team. In fact he is anything but a leader. Maybe he will mature but right now he is a dirty player and a me first player.

RamiTheBullsFan · Oct 27, 2014

The Hawk said:
Since Cousins isn't, that gives Noah up on him. The Bulls are by their nature a defensive team and are led by the defensive player of the year. You can go ahead and rate Cousins higher. But he isn't a leader of the team. In fact he is anything but a leader. Maybe he will mature but right now he is a dirty player and a me first player.

Cousins is a monster. And he has matured and cut down the fouls and the outbursts. Some of the best players ever were me-first players.

FirstTimer · Oct 28, 2014

The Hawk said:
Interesting that a recent poll of NBA GM's called Noah the best defensive player in the league.

Great, and Cousins is by far and away the better offensive player.

The Hawk said:
Since Cousins isn't, that gives Noah up on him. The Bulls are by their nature a defensive team and are led by the defensive player of the year. You can go ahead and rate Cousins higher. But he isn't a leader of the team. In fact he is anything but a leader. Maybe he will mature but right now he is a dirty player and a me first player.

So umm just spit ballin here but if Thibs is a defensive master mind wouldn't you want to give him Cousins(the vastly superior offensive player) and have him work some magic there on defense? You'd literally be maxing out Demarcus Cousins.....which would arguably make him a Top 10-15 player in the NBA IMO. Noah maxed out isn't nearly that good. Not only this, Cousins is actually a pretty good defender. DWS's, DRtg, etc all make him a pretty good defensive player as is. He also lead the entire league in Def rebounding % last season.

I would take Cousins over Noah in a nanosecond.

Scoot26 · Oct 28, 2014

Um. Okay. Noah is a good player and exceeded all expectations last season, but a post offensive guy is always more desirable than a guy like Noah. Traditionally those guys win you championships, though obviously lately in the NBA that has kinda faded as the wing position (a long with some insane 3pt shooting) has completely taken over. Rarely will an defensive center win you a championship unless you're complimenting him with a (good) offensive PF AND have great shooters.

Axl Rose · Oct 28, 2014

not to mention DMC is only 24 while Noah is 29....if we could swap them i would

hes got a attitude problem but being a member of the kings hasnt helped

Axl Rose · Nov 6, 2014

Kings off to a hot start

DMC playing great minus foul trouble

30-11 in 22 minutes

The Hawk · Nov 6, 2014

It is amazing how much some Bulls fans belittle and undervalue Noah. They are probably the people who were pissed off then the Bulls drafted the guy in the first place. The best center that the Bulls ever have had and the best big man defender and he is just another player. Its the same kind of shit about how people undervalue Gibson. People who do not understand the value of both of them in the won/lost columns. Instead these people would rather have guys who look better when they play and forgive all of the bull-crap that they cause on a team. Their selfishness. Noah is the best passing center in the NBA and one of the top two defensive centers. He rebound well and is the leader of the team. Maybe if Noah had a different hair-cut, dissed his teammates, and jacked up shots selfishly, he'd be better received by these people. Give me Noah. I'll take a guy who goes balls out, supports his teammates, defends like a cornered hyena every time.

FirstTimer · Nov 7, 2014

The Hawk said:
It is amazing how much some Bulls fans belittle and undervalue Noah. They are probably the people who were pissed off then the Bulls drafted the guy in the first place. The best center that the Bulls ever have had and the best big man defender and he is just another player. Its the same kind of shit about how people undervalue Gibson. People who do not understand the value of both of them in the won/lost columns. Instead these people would rather have guys who look better when they play and forgive all of the bull-crap that they cause on a team. Their selfishness. Noah is the best passing center in the NBA and one of the top two defensive centers. He rebound well and is the leader of the team. Maybe if Noah had a different hair-cut, dissed his teammates, and jacked up shots selfishly, he'd be better received by these people. Give me Noah. I'll take a guy who goes balls out, supports his teammates, defends like a cornered hyena every time.

Artis Gilmore is the best center the Bulls have ever had. I like how you also go with the narrative of how great a teammate Noah is and how wonderful he is to deal with and how respected in the Locker Room he is. Is everyone choosing to forget what a massive pain in the ass Noah was during his first few seasons in the NBA? Noah matured.

The Hawk · Nov 7, 2014

FirstTimer said:
Artis Gilmore is the best center the Bulls have ever had. I like how you also go with the narrative of how great a teammate Noah is and how wonderful he is to deal with and how respected in the Locker Room he is. Is everyone choosing to forget what a massive pain in the ass Noah was during his first few seasons in the NBA? Noah matured.

I disagree with Artis Gilmore but that's okay. He was a good center in an era of great centers. Noah was never a problem on the court. YOu are right, he was immature but Cousins is more than just immature. He is a dirty me-first commodity. I think that he is an ass-hole. Noah just wasn't as skilled as other centers were. Instead he worked his ass off to improve himself as did Gibson and now Butler. Thibs to his credit didn't pigeon hole Noah into a category but dealt with what his great assets were/are and together made Noah a great two way player.

Shepard · Nov 7, 2014

Cousins > Howard

I love me some Jo....but give me a break here.

FirstTimer · Nov 7, 2014

The Hawk said:
I disagree with Artis Gilmore but that's okay.

That's idiotic.

The Hawk said:
He was a good center in an era of great centers.

And Noah is a good center in an era of crap.

Scoot26 · Nov 7, 2014

The Hawk said:
I disagree with Artis Gilmore but that's okay. He was a good center in an era of great centers. Noah was never a problem on the court. YOu are right, he was immature but Cousins is more than just immature. He is a dirty me-first commodity. I think that he is an ass-hole. Noah just wasn't as skilled as other centers were. Instead he worked his ass off to improve himself as did Gibson and now Butler. Thibs to his credit didn't pigeon hole Noah into a category but dealt with what his great assets were/are and together made Noah a great two way player.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html

Noah could only dream of putting up those numbers.

FirstTimer · Nov 7, 2014

Scoot26 said:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html

Noah could only dream of putting up those numbers.

Gilmore in Chicago in an era of great centers:

6 seasons

4 ASG's

20.1 PPG
11.5 RPG
2.2 BPG
2.6 APG

22.1 PER

Scoot26 · Nov 7, 2014

FirstTimer said:
Gilmore in Chicago in an era of great centers:
6 seasons
4 ASG's
20.1 PPG
11.5 RPG
2.2 BPG
2.6 APG

22.1 PER

Not to mention he played in all 82 games all but one season.

FirstTimer · Nov 7, 2014

Scoot26 said:
Not to mention he played in all 82 games all but one season.

Also lead the NBA in FG% twice.

Icculus · Nov 7, 2014

He's the all time NBA Leader in FG pct.

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