Can Doug McDermott Hold his own on Defense in the NBA?

KingDarude7

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Dougies defense has improved and we have the best defensive coach in the NBA
 

NCChiFan

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Some of this can be coached up. Also, I also noticed Tibbs, like you pointed out, putting him on less "creative" players. Look for that to continue as possible as that can be.
 

DCguy

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I think he will have to guard the easier "less creative" of the wing players. His effort is there so in time he will hold his own. Once he understands the system he will avoid the breakdowns that were illustrated in the video.
 

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I don't expect him to be a solid defender for a few seasons, but if anyone can hide his shortcomings, it is this team.
 

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With all of the talk about McDermott, has Mirotic dropped off of the face of the earth? Personally I think that he has the bigger upside.
 

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With all of the talk about McDermott, has Mirotic dropped off of the face of the earth? Personally I think that he has the bigger upside.
No, it's just more likely that McDermott has the bigger role right away.
 

Naptastic

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With all of the talk about McDermott, has Mirotic dropped off of the face of the earth? Personally I think that he has the bigger upside.
At least for me, McD came out and right away impressed. Its been awhile since we've seen a rookie that's NBA ready. Plus 3pt shooters are always more exciting. I agree tho, that mirotic will be a bigger piece for the franchise.
 

Funky Diabetic

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The first play on the video wasn't on McDermott, Mirotic should have picked him up. His guy stepped out and disappeared as an available option. Had McDermott come in on that to defend that drive, the guy he was guarding had that whole side of the court wide open. in a few of the plays after he was criticized for not staying on his man and helping. You can't have it both ways.

If McDermott is our weak link on D, I'll take it. He's smart and he's a worker-bee without a big ego. That typically translates to a solid defender.

For this season, all I want from McDermott is to stick on his guy like glue. Forget help defense; we have plenty other great defenders to take care of that. Stay in front, don't give up a wide open shot. If you get burned by a quick step, make sure you meet them at the whole to at least be a nuisance.

Not that it fully translates to guarding the freakish athletic ability of the premier NBA SGs and SFs but when I play pick-up ball and guard a guy that has an outside shot and can drive, I give them the opportunity to drive. They think they have me beat but what they don't realize is I'm baiting them and ready for them to make the move. They think they've got me beat but there I am making that easy layup a difficult contested shot.

He's got enough size to do the same and I would like to see him play that way. Refuse the open j and be ready to get beat and meet them at the bucket.
 

FirstTimer

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-The first play you showed that's not his rotation. It's actually Mirotic's who gets lost when he looks away from the screen action. Mirotic's job there is to sink to the level of the ball. He doesn't do so.

-Second play is the same issue. Mirotic isn't sinking to the ball level. Sure McDermott could go stand in the restricted area but it doesn't do much good. If he sinks that far in off a corner shooter the counter is a back/seal screen to a skip pass for 3.

-Third play is a tough call. You could make an argument that MCDermott has to sink there and help with the baseline contain but I'm not 100% on Thibs rule there in regards to help side and how he's told McDermott to play Singler in the corner. I'd generally expect the Bulls to help less in that situation given Gibson is on him but not sure.

-Fourth play Somewhat same deal as above. McDermott is in a no win sitation. He's followed Singler high off the action. If he stays sunk and takes away the wing three Singler is still wide open for a three at the top of the key. This rotation gets screwed up by Mirotic getting burned on the spin move. With that double coming he can't get beat like that. If he doesn't that leaves Hinrich to double Snell's job is then to play high side on the post on the opposite block and off a skip pass to the wing recover out. The one thing I notice on all these is McDermott is playing very tight to Singler. I have to think Thibs told him to not "help" as much but even still most of these blown assignments aren't his based on very basic defensive rotation rules. Thibs and the Bulls likely have layers upon layers of rules given time and score, areas of the floor, matchups etc.

-5th play. See above.

-6th play. Got beat back door. Will happen.

8th play is exactly why McDermott can't overhelp to get sealed screened in my explanation above.

The dribble drive around 4 minutes I'm not sure how Thibs wants that leveraged in that situation. He's forcing guy to weak hand, but also middle, Gasol also isn't helping out and sinking despite being two passes away. Rose was also REALLY lazy and slow jumping to the ball after the pass despite Schroeder standing half way to half court.
 

drk3351

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-The first play you showed that's not his rotation. It's actually Mirotic's who gets lost when he looks away from the screen action. Mirotic's job there is to sink to the level of the ball. He doesn't do so.

-Second play is the same issue. Mirotic isn't sinking to the ball level. Sure McDermott could go stand in the restricted area but it doesn't do much good. If he sinks that far in off a corner shooter the counter is a back/seal screen to a skip pass for 3.

-Third play is a tough call. You could make an argument that MCDermott has to sink there and help with the baseline contain but I'm not 100% on Thibs rule there in regards to help side and how he's told McDermott to play Singler in the corner. I'd generally expect the Bulls to help less in that situation given Gibson is on him but not sure.

-Fourth play Somewhat same deal as above. McDermott is in a no win sitation. He's followed Singler high off the action. If he stays sunk and takes away the wing three Singler is still wide open for a three at the top of the key. This rotation gets screwed up by Mirotic getting burned on the spin move. With that double coming he can't get beat like that. If he doesn't that leaves Hinrich to double Snell's job is then to play high side on the post on the opposite block and off a skip pass to the wing recover out. The one thing I notice on all these is McDermott is playing very tight to Singler. I have to think Thibs told him to not "help" as much but even still most of these blown assignments aren't his based on very basic defensive rotation rules. Thibs and the Bulls likely have layers upon layers of rules given time and score, areas of the floor, matchups etc.

-5th play. See above.

-6th play. Got beat back door. Will happen.

8th play is exactly why McDermott can't overhelp to get sealed screened in my explanation above.

The dribble drive around 4 minutes I'm not sure how Thibs wants that leveraged in that situation. He's forcing guy to weak hand, but also middle, Gasol also isn't helping out and sinking despite being two passes away. Rose was also REALLY lazy and slow jumping to the ball after the pass despite Schroeder standing half way to half court.

First of all i want to thank you for the detailed reply, I appreciate the feedback, but just a few things I want to adress about your post.

- first play actually was doug's fault. the player lowest on the weakside closest to the baseline must rotate, that was Doug.

- 2nd play is debatable. Its up to the specific coach to decide what spot on the floor he wants the helpside player to come from. Some want the lowest player, some want a higher player to bump the rolling big earlier.

- 3rd should be doug coming over, but its a tough rotation. Monroe made that spin move so quick even the better NBA defenders wouldn't have come over.

- 4th and 5th is a complex but very common NBA rotation. Doug would zone between the 2 shooters. and for example on the 4th play if the pass went to Meeks, Doug would go to Meeks, Brooks would rotate to Singler, and the guy who dropped low who i circled would go to Brooks man.

- 8th play im confused about, the 8th was when he didn't help one pass away. Not sure if you got the play # right.

- The play Carroll drives middle on was a Doug's fault because no middle takes priority over weak hand at this level. Also I don't have a problem with what Rose did on that play. If he stopped the drive it would have opened up a pass to Schroeder for a wide open 3. Schroeder at that point had his hands up ready to shoot, not half way to half court.

Thanks for the response. Also to the guy who posted before the person I just quoted. Saying Doug should "forget help defense" and just stick with his man is just ridiculous.
 

FirstTimer

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First of all i want to thank you for the detailed reply, I appreciate the feedback, but just a few things I want to adress about your post.

- first play actually was doug's fault. the player lowest on the weakside closest to the baseline must rotate, that was Doug.
It absolutely was not hit fault. This is basic defensive rotation stuff. McDermott's responsibility there is to scramble to the skip pass if it comes to his side of the floor. Basic stuff.


- 2nd play is debatable. Its up to the specific coach to decide what spot on the floor he wants the helpside player to come from. Some want the lowest player, some want a higher player to bump the rolling big earlier.
It's not up for debate at all. If McDermott comes to that play to step into that lane he completely loses man-ball vision and his player has an easy back door cut for a lay up behind McDermott



- 4th and 5th is a complex but very common NBA rotation.
It's not really complex. Mirotic got burned, Snell has help. In the 4th play it didn't go well. In the 5th it did. The one difference was Mirotic not getting roasted on it.





- The play Carroll drives middle on was a Doug's fault because no middle takes priority over weak hand at this level.
No it doesn't.

That's not always the case and not always true. Depending on scouting reports and the rotation they are coming out of middle may be acceptable if there is help on that side of the floor(there was with Rose and Gasol who both half assed it) and if the reports said make Carroll drive left at all costs. You can't say anything about that with certainty b/c we don't know how the Bulls/Thibs want that leveraged given the player and situation.



8th play im confused about, the 8th was when he didn't help one pass away. Not sure if you got the play # right.
Play at 230
Also I don't have a problem with what Rose did on that play. If he stopped the drive it would have opened up a pass to Schroeder for a wide open 3. Schroeder at that point had his hands up ready to shoot, not half way to half court.
LOL, Schroeder is "walking" into a 3pter but at the point when Rose should have been there for help Schroeder is even with the "N" in Center
4:03 mark of the video
10501824_812582012734_3573810305019418775_n.jpg
 

drk3351

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It absolutely was not hit fault. This is basic defensive rotation stuff. McDermott's responsibility there is to scramble to the skip pass if it comes to his side of the floor. Basic stuff.



It's not up for debate at all. If McDermott comes to that play to step into that lane he completely loses man-ball vision and his player has an easy back door cut for a lay up behind McDermott




It's not really complex. Mirotic got burned, Snell has help. In the 4th play it didn't go well. In the 5th it did. The one difference was Mirotic not getting roasted on it.






No it doesn't.

That's not always the case and not always true. Depending on scouting reports and the rotation they are coming out of middle may be acceptable if there is help on that side of the floor(there was with Rose and Gasol who both half assed it) and if the reports said make Carroll drive left at all costs. You can't say anything about that with certainty b/c we don't know how the Bulls/Thibs want that leveraged given the player and situation.




Play at 230

LOL, Schroeder is "walking" into a 3pter but at the point when Rose should have been there for help Schroeder is even with the "N" in Center
4:03 mark of the video
10501824_812582012734_3573810305019418775_n.jpg

Yeah honestly you have no idea how an NBA defense works. Your just completely off on the defensive rotation stuff and you a bulls fan should know thibs preaches no middle over strong hand/weak hand. It's pretty obvious if you watch Bulls basketball.
 

FirstTimer

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Yeah honestly you have no idea how an NBA defense works.
LOL. Good argument. Not like I've gone to coaching clinics where these guys talk and teach or anything.

Oh wait. I do.

Great summation on the Rose stuff by the way. Schroeder would have had a wide open three next to the Sprite sign. That's way more dangerous than Rose blowing help responsibility at the FT line extended.


Nice to see you've shut up about everything else though. Thanks.
 
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Raskolnikov

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That was some bad defense, clearly Doug was hesitant to leave his man, and unaware of what was happening behind him. He's an NBA rookie, coaches son or not, we should relax. His offensive game is more well rounded than Korver, and with the defense of Mirotic we could have a nice offense/defense substitution there to close out games at SF.

I see no reason to keep Dunleavy, I think we should go big and overwhelm people. Get Taj in at SF more as well.

Rose-Butler-Mirotic-Gasol-Noah is probably my favorite defense for certain situations, such as a team that has a defensive SF or SG on the floor and can't find the quickness mismatch.

Thibs has the hardest job this year, to put the right combonations out there, we should downright overwhelm people with talented depth at times, and at other times inexperience and chemistry or mistakes from our depth is going to cost us some games.

Bottom line, we should be very excited. McD has probably been my biggest dissapointment of the pre-season, but I like his effort. YOu can tell he is thinking too much and trying to act tough, but I see enough to believe he will develop into a really solid player.

If his shot can improve, he can be a huge offensive asset for us. I look forward to seeing what he looks like at the end of the year. He is a nice gangly body with some weight to it to throw out at people,

this current Bulls team has an awful lot of wrinkles to prepare for.
 

ChettheJet

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He's capable, could improve and as said, he'll likely guard the least gifted scorer. That's easy to do if he's on the court with Butler and Hinrich who can cover anybody. He also has the luxury of probably being with some combination of Noah, Gasol and Gibson so should he get beaten to the basket they guard the rim.
 

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