2010/2011

bearmick said:

This stems from a discussion that was in the Cutler subforum, but I wanted to raise it here, partly because it will open it up to more discussion since a lot of people avoid that place, and partly because this is really about the Martz offense compared with Trestman, rather than Cutler specifically.

I was looking at the final 8 games of the 2010 season and the last 8 games leading up to Cutler's injury in 2011 (which is the 8 games up to and including the Chargers game). Here is what I found.

If you combine these two 8-game stretches into one full season, Cutler was 274 of 458 for 3,366 yards, 27td, 15int, passer rating of 88.6.

Going by the numbers alone, it doesn't seem that impressive, but the reason the rating isn't higher is because the yardage was fairly pedestrian. However, he was very efficient. He didn't NEED to throw for 300ypg because they were playing balanced, efficient football.

The +12 TD/INT differential is better than he's had in any single year of his career.

A big part of the reason for him being able to play quality over quantity was because the running game was good. Forte had 293 carries for 1,477 yards, which is 5.04 ypc, but again, this is quality over quantity - it's only 18.3 carries per game (not much different that he seems to be getting with Trestman).

I would argue that this is when Cutler has played his best football, the running game was at it's most efficient, and generally the team was at it's best since the Cutler trade.

The bears scored 411 points (25.7 ppg) and allowed 318 points (19.9 ppg). More importantly, the record of the team was 12-4.

It seems to me that these periods of time were probably when the Bears as a team and Cutler as a player have been at their best since we signed him.

So, was Martz better than Trestman for this team?

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I've posted this before somewhere on this board a while back in a conversation about Grossman. I think him and Cutler have a similar weakness in one area *DISCLAIMER, I am not saying Grossman is as good as Cutler*. Just from my observation of Cutler, how Grossman played, and comparing Cutler to other elite QB's Cutler and Grossman both seemed to have a really tough time or hard time making the anticipatory throw. They were each guys that had to see the throw before they made it. You rarely in my estimation, relative to other upper tie QB's in the NFL, see Cutler anticipate a throw into a window. The route or the guy is there and Cutler rips it. That's what he's best at. That's part of the reason why he's so good in broken play or designed scrambles. More often than not you're not window throwing there, you're seeing the player, the route etc and throwing it without that extra read. Some different things can play into this, such as comfort with and the intelligence of his WR's, but even in Denver Cutler had the same issue. Think about that throw Cutler drilled into the LB last year that he got pissed at Hester on. That should be a ball thrown to the inside window that Hester runs into. Cutler doesn't see that and instead tries to put it on Hester where he was at the moment, not where he would be in 2 seconds. Ironically enough, Hester made the right read on that play.


I think that's part of the reason, in my estimation Cutler played well under Martz and was really coming on a bit before he got hurt. So much of Martz's system isn't so much reading the coverage from an anticipation POV but you go 5 to 7 steps, the safety or LB does this, you hit your back foot and the ball goes to this spot and the WR better damn well be there.

Couple this bad anticipation on Cutler's part with having to play at times 3 on 7 with defensive backs and an iffy OL and it's a recipe for inconsistency and the seen statistical regression.

I'm not saying Cutler's football dumb or even dumb in general, I just think it's a weakness in his game that got exasperated in Chicago.

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Chicago4Life said:

i dont think its trestman not wanting to run the football its more about the ability to run the football, the bears have had a tough time running the ball, the offensive line has been very inconsistent in opening holes. With that said the stats in 2010 and 2011 with martz running the show had a few differences such as the offensive line was much better at run blocking than pass blocking(if you disagree just remember the giants game)...the other difference was the defense, the bears actually stopped opponents back then and played tough defense consistently. this scheme is much better at pass blocking than run blocking, the other problem is the defense rarely stops opponents putting the bears into an early hole which then generally calls for more passes. I do agree that trestman may be over his head as a head coach but he is still better than martz...martz got his qb's killed in the pocket by asking them to stand in on 7 step drops too often just ask marc bulger, you need premier pass blocking or the qb is going to take a lot of hits...

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bearmick said:

This stems from a discussion that was in the Cutler subforum, but I wanted to raise it here, partly because it will open it up to more discussion since a lot of people avoid that place, and partly because this is really about the Martz offense compared with Trestman, rather than Cutler specifically.

I was looking at the final 8 games of the 2010 season and the last 8 games leading up to Cutler's injury in 2011 (which is the 8 games up to and including the Chargers game). Here is what I found.

If you combine these two 8-game stretches into one full season, Cutler was 274 of 458 for 3,366 yards, 27td, 15int, passer rating of 88.6.

Going by the numbers alone, it doesn't seem that impressive, but the reason the rating isn't higher is because the yardage was fairly pedestrian. However, he was very efficient. He didn't NEED to throw for 300ypg because they were playing balanced, efficient football.

The +12 TD/INT differential is better than he's had in any single year of his career.

A big part of the reason for him being able to play quality over quantity was because the running game was good. Forte had 293 carries for 1,477 yards, which is 5.04 ypc. But again, this is quality over quantity - it's only 18.3 carries per game (not much different that he seems to be getting with Trestman).

I would argue that this is when Cutler has played his best football, the running game was at it's most efficient, and generally the team was at it's best since the Cutler trade.

The Bears scored 411 points (25.7 ppg) and allowed 318 points (19.9 ppg). More importantly, the record of the team was 12-4.

It seems to me that these periods of time were probably when the Bears as a team and Cutler as a player have been at their best since we signed him.

So, was Martz better than Trestman for this team?

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Spartan said:

The reason the yardage was weak is cause that was the point they got away from the Martz system, went with more of a WCO W/shorter passes and more dump offs to forte.

Martz sucked as a coach. With Warner and the Rams he had the exact right players at every position for that system. With the Bears he had none. If you coach a system disregarding the type players you have, that makes for a pretty dumb coach IMO.

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bearmick said:

For the purpose of this discussion, it's necessary to separate "Martz" and "the Martz system". Martz was still calling the plays in late 2010 and that stretch of 2011, even though he had been harnessed somewhat.

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Spartan said:

Ok but no way you can say he's better than Trestman even with that little stretch in which he was harnessed. Look what Trestman did with Josh, that offense was ranked top 5 with a journeyman QB filling in. Only problem was they had no defense at all.

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BearsSilk said:

This is an interesting discussion but doesn't mean much now. Where do we go from here? Does anyone else think that 5 - 11 or 4 - 12 is a real possibility for this club?

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bearmick said:

Yeah but where is that offense now?

the thread is about which offense was better with Cutler.

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