My Thoughts on the Bears

FatBabiesHaveNoPride · Oct 28, 2014

Can't argue, but a couple:

- LEADERSHIP - to me, it's overrated and nebulous. What does it REALLY mean? How does it manifest itself? Did Haloti Ngata play better because Ray Lewis danced like an idiot? These are elite athletes making millions. Do your job! Would 'leadership' make Marshall finish his routes or fight for that Clausen TD throw in garbage time? 'Leadership' is silly. Every players should do their job. Period. Matt Forte is. Wille Young is doing a nice job. The rest are not.

- ARIANS - yes, he would have been the better choice and he's doing it with a washed up QB and only one guy on offense you've ever heard of. That said, apparently he wanted more control and wanted to bring his staff. That just isn't going to jibe with a GM who is on his second year. New GMs don't relent control to coaches.

I notice that Ted Philips isn't getting a mention. I'm not going to do the 'force the McClaskeys to sell the team' stupidity, but Philips is a hired employee. His reign since 1999 has been pure garbage. It's baffling. They hired Wannstedt who was one of, if not the hot coordinator that everyone wanted - failure. Angelo? Hottest GM candidate. Failure. Lovie - hot coordinator. Not a failure but not a success. Emery was a 'hmm' hire as was Trestman.

The systemic failure that goes back 25 years is terrible, but if we look at things in the last 10 years or so, really comes down to:

1. Instability/mediocrity at the QB position
2. Draft failures. Forcing the team to seek help in FA. That route is expensive and usually nets you old declining players (Allen, etc).
3. Coaching Carousel - yes, at HC, but moreso at the coordinator position. The revolving door of OCs is an issue. And it's not because it's the Belicheck Tree and guys are getting hired away for HC gigs. It's because the coaches suck.

All of those things lead to one reality - the heralded 'Monsters of the Midway' are anything but. It's all fluff and no reality.

Notice that the teams that are always in the playoff hunt year in and year out are the teams with consistent solid QB play - NE, GB, SD, DEN, IND, PITT, NO and even BAL - the teams that get crap QB play (CLEV, TENN, JAX, HOU, NYJ, MIA, BUFF, MN) are on the outside looking in. The teams that get inconsistent qb play (NYG, BEARS, CINC) are head scratchers.

The Chicago Bears are the New York Jets.

Bearshomer · Oct 28, 2014

Mills and Bostic both suck the 2013 draft set this team back another year.

FirstTimer · Oct 28, 2014

WindyCity said:
2013
1 Starting LB, who was playing much better.

Playing b/c of injury.

WindyCity said:
1 Starting OT

Beat out JaMarcus Webb. Meh...and I'm a guy who likes Mills.

WindyCity said:
3. I think Long, Jeffery and Fuller are players that will be in the top 10 at their positions, which is how I define elite.

Long yes. Jeffery, maybe....Fuller...maybe..no idea. I can't say I feel Emery has found 3 elite players because right now 2/3rds of those guys aren't "elite".

WindyCity said:
but he has significantly improved the drafting from 07-11.

Cutler is also the best QB the Bears have had since WWII. Bar wasn't very high.

Again, the point here isn't if I like Emery or not. He's good at his job. He's an average guy. My "issue" is the framing of the young guys simply playing as proof of a restocking taking place the way ASU makes it out to be.

AHSIllini32 · Oct 28, 2014

WindyCity said:
I think you could add Bostic and Mills to the list, neither has been a homerun, but both have given the Bears starts.

In my world I have seen serious flashes from Ego and Sutton that they will be players for the Bears.

I have FT blocked so I only saw his post through your quote but he pointed out a bunch on non-first round picks outside of long and fuller wig have been forced into action and done well relative to their draft pick. Pointing out that vereen has had to play is irrelevant. He's a fourth round pick for fucks sake. He's played and done very well all things considered. How many non-first round rookies start? Fuller was set to play 60-70% of the snaps even before till and injury so that's an asinine comment by FT. You can't "restock" an organization with two drafts but you can damn well start and that's what emery has done.

DrGonzo · Oct 28, 2014

FatBabiesHaveNoPride said:
Can't argue, but a couple:

- LEADERSHIP - to me, it's overrated and nebulous. What does it REALLY mean? How does it manifest itself? Did Haloti Ngata play better because Ray Lewis danced like an idiot? These are elite athletes making millions. Do your job! Would 'leadership' make Marshall finish his routes or fight for that Clausen TD throw in garbage time? 'Leadership' is silly. Every players should do their job. Period. Matt Forte is. Wille Young is doing a nice job. The rest are not.

- ARIANS - yes, he would have been the better choice and he's doing it with a washed up QB and only one guy on offense you've ever heard of. That said, apparently he wanted more control and wanted to bring his staff. That just isn't going to jibe with a GM who is on his second year. New GMs don't relent control to coaches.

I notice that Ted Philips isn't getting a mention. I'm not going to do the 'force the McClaskeys to sell the team' stupidity, but Philips is a hired employee. His reign since 1999 has been pure garbage. It's baffling. They hired Wannstedt who was one of, if not the hot coordinator that everyone wanted - failure. Angelo? Hottest GM candidate. Failure. Lovie - hot coordinator. Not a failure but not a success. Emery was a 'hmm' hire as was Trestman.

The systemic failure that goes back 25 years is terrible, but if we look at things in the last 10 years or so, really comes down to:

1. Instability/mediocrity at the QB position
2. Draft failures. Forcing the team to seek help in FA. That route is expensive and usually nets you old declining players (Allen, etc).
3. Coaching Carousel - yes, at HC, but moreso at the coordinator position. The revolving door of OCs is an issue. And it's not because it's the Belicheck Tree and guys are getting hired away for HC gigs. It's because the coaches suck.

All of those things lead to one reality - the heralded 'Monsters of the Midway' are anything but. It's all fluff and no reality.

Notice that the teams that are always in the playoff hunt year in and year out are the teams with consistent solid QB play - NE, GB, SD, DEN, IND, PITT, NO and even BAL - the teams that get crap QB play (CLEV, TENN, JAX, HOU, NYJ, MIA, BUFF, MN) are on the outside looking in. The teams that get inconsistent qb play (NYG, BEARS, CINC) are head scratchers.

The Chicago Bears are the New York Jets.

That's actually a pretty coherent analysis, although I disagree with the last sentence. The Jets, like the Vikings, set themselves further back than the Bears when they decided to gamble everything on an end-of-career Brett Favre. Ryan will probably be fired at the end of the year and Trestman definitely will not be.

FatBabiesHaveNoPride · Oct 28, 2014

DrGonzo said:
That's actually a pretty coherent analysis, although I disagree with the last sentence. The Jets, like the Vikings, set themselves further back than the Bears when they decided to gamble everything on an end-of-career Brett Favre. Ryan will probably be fired at the end of the year and Trestman definitely will not be.

Ryan will be fired because he's been there longer. Coaches typically don't get fired after two seasons. If this were Trestman's 3rd year, he'd be gone.

DeCamilis and Tucker have to be gone for sure. Trestman is on the hot seat and I can't believe he'd keep his wagon hitched to these turds. Even if his offense was struggling, a good ST or good D can offset that to get some wins and keep security (ala Lovie). When you are the offensive guru and your unit is sucking, you can't afford to have the other two units suck as well.

FirstTimer · Oct 28, 2014

AHSIllini32 said:
I have FT blocked so I only saw his post through your quote but he pointed out a bunch on non-first round picks outside of long and fuller wig have been forced into action and done well relative to their draft pick. Pointing out that vereen has had to play is irrelevant. He's a fourth round pick for fucks sake. He's played and done very well all things considered. How many non-first round rookies start? Fuller was set to play 60-70% of the snaps even before till and injury so that's an asinine comment by FT. You can't "restock" an organization with two drafts but you can damn well start and that's what emery has done.

Hey kid. Adults are talking, go back to the play pen. How many 1st round draft picks "don't contribute"? You're framing this argument like guys simply being on the field equals to "OMG the talent is being restocked". If the Bears don't have injuries this year the only guys Emery has drafted that are starting for this team are: Jeffery, Long, Mills, and Shea McClellin. Mills I "like" but McClellin is a complete bum. The 2012 draft was a complete waste for the most part. 2013 is average/ok. 2014 is WAY too early to judge. I've already said I like the first three picks but that means very little this early in the game. Then again you'd know that if you weren't completely ignorant as to what is being said. Word of advice: If you don't want to be made to look like a complete ignoramus take me off ignore so you can at the very least follow the conversation accurately.

That's kind of a red herring though. These young guys are being forced into action because of injuries. Christian Jones, Khaseem Greene, Brock Vereen, etc are pretty much playing only because the players ahead of them are old and/or bad. The only guys Emery has drafted that have really "won" a job are Long and Jeffery. Hell, even Fuller wasn't starting over Tim Jennings until Tillman got hurt. Which is nice but let's pump the brakes on saying Emery is restocking this team because some rookies are playing because Tillman, Briggs, Conte, DJ Williams, etc are getting hurt or starting to suck. Those guys are playing because they are "next man in" on the depth chart.

tricky5544 · Oct 28, 2014

-Cago34- said:
WC, you seem like a nice enough guy and even though I troll you when you do 1,200 mock drafts over the course of the year, I do appreciate your posts. But look, losing makes everything seem worse than it is. Just as, winning makes things seem better than they are. There is such a thin line on wins and losses in this league, you know that.

The season has been disappointing thus far, it happens. It happens to teams every year.

You keep saying how much talent we have, and how we have enough...well, so do other teams. Other teams have guys that live and die football just like our Org does. Maybe you have overvalued the talent on the Bears some? Maybe you undervalue other teams talent because you aren't a fan of that team, to clarify, you aren't emotionally invested in other rosters the way you appear to be with Chicago.

Trestman deserves more than a season and a half before being put on the ''hot seat''. Get a grip. Does Emery strike you as an irrational boss that makes decisions off the cuff? Look how he supports Jay as an example, and you think Trestman is or should be on the hot seat? Emery hired him, no way Trestman is in danger at this point in his tenure, no way.

You write about our reliance on aging vets because of poor drafting. Isn't that a side effect of poor drafting? Should we of just signed a bunch of UDFA's instead of ''aging vets''? What would your answer of been? If you see my point, than just accept that this is Emery putting a prioritized Band-Aid on certain position groups as he cannot flip the whole roster in a couple drafts. Be realistic, you know the business.

Jay is Jay, get over that too.

I have been a bear fan for over 30+ years...I am tired of getting over shit...It is not to much to ask of a team for them to go out and be competitive. If not be accountable. I read in another form that the bears have only been in the playoffs 5 times since 1992...That is not acceptable at all. 5 times in 22 years and you ask us to be more patient....Fuck this team

tricky5544 · Oct 28, 2014

-Cago34- said:
What type of ''leadership'' are you talking about? Some rah-rah shit like Ray Lewis? Speeches, headbutts? Certain individuals speaking up in meetings trying to lead their position group? Exactly what are you looking for?

You're reaching for anything to try and make sense of all this. In my opinion, it's just a storm that we have to weather.

A storm that has lasted 20+ years besides the occasional eye of the tornado

-Cago34- · Oct 28, 2014

WindyCity said:
I am not talking Ray Lewis stuff.

I mean guys who will play up to their ability when the storm hits. Guys who will rally their position group around them in the storm. I mean guys that will inspire confidence during the storm.

Trestman not getting the best from his guys is a leadership issue.

When a team does not live up to their talent level across the board it is bigger than a talent issue.

I think the leadership shit is completely overrated to be honest. But if that's what helps you make sense of this, so be it.

Can you point to a losing team for me that has good leadership?

Just for shitz n giggles.

-Cago34- · Oct 28, 2014

tricky5544 said:
I have been a bear fan for over 30+ years...I am tired of getting over shit...It is not to much to ask of a team for them to go out and be competitive. If not be accountable. I read in another form that the bears have only been in the playoffs 5 times since 1992...That is not acceptable at all. % times in 22 years and you ask us to be more patient....Fuck this team

Okay? Don't waste another 30 years. Me gives no fucks.

WindyCity · Oct 28, 2014

-Cago34- said:
I think the leadership shit is completely overrated to be honest. But if that's what helps you make sense of this, so be it.

Can you point to a losing team for me that has good leadership?

Just for shitz n giggles.

Some teams are bad because they have no talent.

Some teams are bad, but they have good talent, like the Falcons, Bears. In my opinion both of the Falcons and Bears are poorly coached, which is a leadership issue.

Do you think the Bears are untalented?

tricky5544 · Oct 28, 2014

-Cago34- said:
Okay? Don't waste another 30 years. Me gives no fucks.

I can not help it...If your a fan your a fan. But as a fan I do want more from this team. If you are okay with sucking by all means be content. I am not okay with this bullshit. The bears are in no better place then they were with lovie. Yes it takes time but, how much time should it take. I see other coaches stepping right in and making teams playoff bound.

WindyCity · Oct 28, 2014

FirstTimer said:
Playing b/c of injury.

Beat out JaMarcus Webb. Meh...and I'm a guy who likes Mills.

Long yes. Jeffery, maybe....Fuller...maybe..no idea. I can't say I feel Emery has found 3 elite players because right now 2/3rds of those guys aren't "elite".

Cutler is also the best QB the Bears have had since WWII. Bar wasn't very high.

Again, the point here isn't if I like Emery or not. He's good at his job. He's an average guy. My "issue" is the framing of the young guys simply playing as proof of a restocking taking place the way ASU makes it out to be.

1. I do not agree with your assessment of Bostic. I think he was a bright spot of the defense pre injury.

The fact that this coaching staff insists on playing McClellin and D.J is an indictment of the coaches, and not young players like Bostic and Jones.

2. Mills played well last season. Not everyone gets a chance to beat out an All-Pro.

J.J Watt beat out a guy named Tim Bulman.

3. Elite was a poor choice of words, too subjective.

For me Long, Jeffery, Fuller look like long term NFL starters and that have and should continue to go to Pro Bowls. This to me represents a strong value and a really good pick. Even Jeffery who many assume is having a bad year is on pace for 1100 yards and 6 TDs.

Judging Emery has to be done in context, this team was a mess that drafted terribly and now we draft respectably and have more young talent than we have had in years. Even a critic has to admit that there is more young talent to be excited about now than in recent memory.

Space Invader · Oct 28, 2014

AHSIllini32 said:
We aren't getting shit-kicked at home

And you fail at not only facts but the interwebz.

SlickWilly · Oct 28, 2014

tricky5544 said:
I can not help it...If your a fan your a fan. But as a fan I do want more from this team. If you are okay with sucking by all means be content. I am not okay with this bullshit. The bears are in no better place then they were with lovie. Yes it takes time but, how much time should it take. I see other coaches stepping right in and making teams playoff bound.

I like you and most other fans hate losing. After the game Sunday I said "Fuck this team!! I'm not gonna cheer for these worthless fucks anymore this year!!" Now that's it's been a day or two I know that's not true and I will be. Emotions come right out after not only a loss but a season that's been played poorly and shouldn't be. Right now I personally don't think they'll turn it around enough to make the playoffs, but that won't stop me from watching and cheering. Another ass whoopin like Sunday may push me over the edge though.

-Cago34- · Oct 28, 2014

WindyCity said:
Some teams are bad because they have no talent.

Some teams are bad, but they have good talent, like the Falcons, Bears. In my opinion both of the Falcons and Bears are poorly coached, which is a leadership issue.

Do you think the Bears are untalented?

So Mike Smith has talent on the Falcons but his coaching/leadership is poor?

Was his coaching poor when he coached them to a 13-3 record in 2012?

Or 10-6 in 2011?

Or 13-3 in 2010?

No, I don't think the Bears are untalented. But I also don't think they are filled with world-beaters either. We have holes, some gaping. It doesn't take much for other teams to scheme against our piss poor LB's and S's. We're fielding Band-aids, are you surprised other teams pluck our scabs until they bleed?

-Cago34- · Oct 28, 2014

tricky5544 said:
I can not help it...If your a fan your a fan. But as a fan I do want more from this team. If you are okay with sucking by all means be content. I am not okay with this bullshit. The bears are in no better place then they were with lovie. Yes it takes time but, how much time should it take. I see other coaches stepping right in and making teams playoff bound.

Emery is in his 3rd year here. Trestman has coached us a year and a half. The roster was old, and mostly void of talent before Emery's arrival. I'm sorry your expectations aren't being met, but I don't see what the past 30 years have to do with the past 2-3 years of a brand new tenure.

So, what are your fixes? Bulldoze Halas Hall?

FatBabiesHaveNoPride · Oct 28, 2014

WindyCity said:
I am not talking Ray Lewis stuff.

I mean guys who will play up to their ability when the storm hits. Guys who will rally their position group around them in the storm. I mean guys that will inspire confidence during the storm.

Trestman not getting the best from his guys is a leadership issue.

When a team does not live up to their talent level across the board it is bigger than a talent issue.

Do we even know that happens? Fans PROJECT that onto teams, but do guys magically make their position group play better?

Did Olin - the 'leader' of this team - anoint his position group he broke the jaw of one of them.

Frankly, I just don't know if this is a real thing. Does Justin Smith play better because Ray McDonald tells him to? Does Brandon Browner play better CB because Darrel Revis tells him to?

I just think it's one of those overblown things (like crowd noise at Century Link) that doesn't really matter.

If heard multiple ex-player analysts - including a very passionate Eric Davis and LaVarr Arrington say - you don't 'lead' by stupid locker room speeches. You lead by your play on the field. Don't give up on routes or not fight for the ball (Marshall).

Would anyone call Martellus a 'leader'? I wouldn't. That said, he and Forte appeared to be the only guys still going balls out in a blowout. If not for the blowout, Houston, etc - we'd all be talking about how his catch was one the best of the year.

Chicago4Life · Oct 28, 2014

i dont think the players have tucker's back, they have lost confidence in his ability to field a strong defense...they are going through the motions of what he is teaching but dont truly believe this will make them a good defense. On offense I think the players are losing or have lost confidence in cutler/trestman ability to lead them to victory. I have to believe that the offensive players on the broncos offense are willing to run or block or do that little extra because they believe manning will lead them to points on offense and ultimately get a win. It seems the only way to fix this is win but thats certainly easier said than done...

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