The Teach Me About Hockey Thread

clonetrooper264

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Sup diehards

I really want to learn about hockey so I can understand the awesomeness I see when I watch the Hawks play. Can you guys help me out with the basics? I've watched both playoff runs the last two seasons, but obviously that is not much hockey experience for the purposes of understanding how the game works. I can usually tell when icing will be called...that's about it. I want to watch a lot more hockey this year and it'd be super awesome if I could understand what is going on.

A few quick questions to start I suppose...

What makes a good hockey player? Scoring lots of goals is nice, but obviously there's much more than that. I assume passing and puck handling ability is much like passing and dribbling in basketball. But what other skills does a player bring to the table other than those that makes them valuable to a team?

I've seen talk of the lines. I'm assuming they are your substitution rotations for the offensive guys. What makes a good line? What does one look for in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd lines (or whatever they're called)?

Defense...I'm not sure how it works in hockey. Obviously the goalie can be judged on how many saves he gets, but from all the stats I've seen (granted not many) all the goalies have save percentages in the mid to upper 90s. At what point is a goalie considered good, mediocre, and bad? Also what makes a good defensemen? Are there "lockdown defenders" like there are in the NBA or certain NFL cornerbacks?

Thanks for bearing with me on this. If I am going to talk hockey, I want to do it properly. :)
 

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I will also use this thread to learn more.
 

HeHateMe

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Me too. Screw the Chicago Cutlers, I'm jumping on the Blawkhawkwagon.

FWIW, I've been a fan ever since the first playoff run to winning the cup. Both of my children were born during the last two championship runs and they are diehard Blackhawks fans (not the hipster kind) since birth. I want to be able to teach them about hockey so they can be knowledgeable fans and not douchebag hipster wannabe blackhawks bandwagoners.
 

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Good hockey players, I would say have that hockey sense, they have real good stick handling, can handle the puck. They play with in the offensive and defensive zones. I like guys that can not only score, but can create scoring chances for there teammates just by their puck and stick abilities. Hard to say if there is such a thing as lockdown defender, I would coin it an all around guy. These defenseman are threats in the offensive zone, but also have the ability to handle their zones, and responsibilities in the defensive zones. Goalie is tough to call sometimes, if the defense in front is bad, the goalie will look bad, but at the same time you want a goalie that comes up big when he needs to. When it comes to lines, this really is the preference of the team I suppose. You want to be able to have players that complement each other especially on your top 2 lines as well as these being your best players. The 4th line, are more of your grinder lines to me, these are the guys that you hope will bring energy.

Everyone will have a different opinion Clone, just watch as much Hockey as you can. I try to watch a game a day, if I can.
 

clonetrooper264

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Goalie is tough to call sometimes, if the defense in front is bad, the goalie will look bad, but at the same time you want a goalie that comes up big when he needs to.
What makes the defense bad?

Everyone will have a different opinion Clone, just watch as much Hockey as you can. I try to watch a game a day, if I can.
True, just wanted to see if I could learn some of the objective stuff
 

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What makes the defense bad?


True, just wanted to see if I could learn some of the objective stuff

I would say not getting back quick enough on the rushes, having trouble in the defensive zone, struggling with assignments, getting the puck cleared.
 

Ares

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Sup diehards

I really want to learn about hockey so I can understand the awesomeness I see when I watch the Hawks play. Can you guys help me out with the basics? I've watched both playoff runs the last two seasons, but obviously that is not much hockey experience for the purposes of understanding how the game works. I can usually tell when icing will be called...that's about it. I want to watch a lot more hockey this year and it'd be super awesome if I could understand what is going on.

A few quick questions to start I suppose...

What makes a good hockey player? Scoring lots of goals is nice, but obviously there's much more than that. I assume passing and puck handling ability is much like passing and dribbling in basketball. But what other skills does a player bring to the table other than those that makes them valuable to a team?

I've seen talk of the lines. I'm assuming they are your substitution rotations for the offensive guys. What makes a good line? What does one look for in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd lines (or whatever they're called)?

Defense...I'm not sure how it works in hockey. Obviously the goalie can be judged on how many saves he gets, but from all the stats I've seen (granted not many) all the goalies have save percentages in the mid to upper 90s. At what point is a goalie considered good, mediocre, and bad? Also what makes a good defensemen? Are there "lockdown defenders" like there are in the NBA or certain NFL cornerbacks?

Thanks for bearing with me on this. If I am going to talk hockey, I want to do it properly. :)

Good hockey player.... anywhere on the ice.... puck awareness.... where is the puck and where is it going and where should I be going.

On offense look at Kane and Toews.... like you said scoring goals is not all there is.... keeping plays alive and forcing the opposing D out of position and setting up your teammates is very important.

Toews is good at just about every thing but I think he does a great job around the net in particular.

Kane is a great shot but also his ability to move with the puck and pull Defenders away from their assignments is good and his passing it top notch.

Shaw is a guy who does the little stuff you won't notice.... winning pucks on the boards.... fighting to keep the puck in the zone.... and most of all getting in front of the net/goalie and screening the goalie so he cannot see shots while also looking to deflect pucks in to the net.

Shaw and Bickel are both pretty good at screening the goalie.

Hossa is much like Toews, good at everything, but Hossa often kills teams with his back pressure when the puck is between the blue lines.... getting the puck stripped away and feeding the rush for the Hawks going the other way.

When you get to Defense I think you look for a couple main things.... defense in transition.... how well do your players keep the other team from entering your zone and once they enter the zone how quickly and efficiently can you get the puck back out without allowing scoring chances. This is one area I get frustrated with the Hawks at times.... I often feel the opposing teams who pressure the Hawk defenders hard succeed alot because the Hawk D men like to start playing hot-potato with the puck. I have seen even our top 2 D men Keith and Seabrook do this in the playoffs.... but this is also on the Center and Wingers, they all need to be in position for the D to get the puck get it to them and then they get it out of the zone.

Now for lines...

Every hockey team will run 4 Offensive lines and 3 defensive pairings.

Lines 1 and 2 are usually your best players overall and best scoring lines.... Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Saad, etc.

Lines 3 and 4 are usually your lesser talented players.... usually Line 3 will have a guy or 2 like a Versteeg or Saad who could play on the top 2 lines but there is not room up there or because that player is doing well with his 3rd line mates.

In years past the Hawks 3rd line was a shutdown defensive line we would put up against the opposing team's best scoring line, but it has not been that way over much in the last few years.

4th line will usually have your grinders who are not as offensively skilled but they can handle themselves defensively while providing a change of pace when they go on the attack.... IMO similar to going from a Matt Forte at RB to a Marion Barber.

For the D you will have 3 pairs.... usually ours are Keith and Seabrook 1, Hammer and Oduya 2, and then some combo of Rozival, TVR, and Runblad 3.

Under ideal circumstances your 3rd pair doesn't see a ton of ice time.

You will hear the announcers talk about "Rolling 4 lines" and what they mean is a coach is not mixing up his lines... just letting all 4 lines go on and off for shifts in a rotation that keeps them all fresh. Often coach Q will mix up the lines moving guys around to different combos and sitting some guys to where you may only see 8 or 9 guys hitting the ice say if we are behind or some guys are injured or not playing well or a line in particular is having trouble and getting crushed.

The D pairs usually won't get re-paired unless you see injuries or someone is out for a penalty.

When watching the Hawks.... you want to see us owning the puck.... we want it all the time regardless of where we are on the ice....on offense you want to see shots hitting the goalie or the back of the net, if they are getting disrupted or not getting shots on goal, das no good. For defense you want to see us disrupting their efforts to enter the zone but mostly you want to see our guys get a hold of the puck in our zone and quickly distribute it back to the forwards and out to center ice and beyond. If not you want to see our D disrupting or blocking shots so they are not a threat or at the very least keeping the shots contested and keep the goalie clean so the opponent is not screening him and causing him to be hampered in his efforts to make saves.

For goalies you want to see no goals obviously, but also you want to see the goalie "soaking up" shots where when they do get a shot on it is absorbed and held and not allowed out for a rebound and another chance to score.

Lastly.... if some asshat hits any of your top line guys like Hossa with some flying elbow bullshit you want to see a guy like Bickel find that cunt and punch his face in like the ******* he is so the opponent knows dat shit don't fly.
 

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Good hockey player.... anywhere on the ice.... puck awareness.... where is the puck and where is it going and where should I be going.

On offense look at Kane and Toews.... like you said scoring goals is not all there is.... keeping plays alive and forcing the opposing D out of position and setting up your teammates is very important.

Toews is good at just about every thing but I think he does a great job around the net in particular.

Kane is a great shot but also his ability to move with the puck and pull Defenders away from their assignments is good and his passing it top notch.

Shaw is a guy who does the little stuff you won't notice.... winning pucks on the boards.... fighting to keep the puck in the zone.... and most of all getting in front of the net/goalie and screening the goalie so he cannot see shots while also looking to deflect pucks in to the net.

Shaw and Bickel are both pretty good at screening the goalie.

Hossa is much like Toews, good at everything, but Hossa often kills teams with his back pressure when the puck is between the blue lines.... getting the puck stripped away and feeding the rush for the Hawks going the other way.

When you get to Defense I think you look for a couple main things.... defense in transition.... how well do your players keep the other team from entering your zone and once they enter the zone how quickly and efficiently can you get the puck back out without allowing scoring chances. This is one area I get frustrated with the Hawks at times.... I often feel the opposing teams who pressure the Hawk defenders hard succeed alot because the Hawk D men like to start playing hot-potato with the puck. I have seen even our top 2 D men Keith and Seabrook do this in the playoffs.... but this is also on the Center and Wingers, they all need to be in position for the D to get the puck get it to them and then they get it out of the zone.

Now for lines...

Every hockey team will run 4 Offensive lines and 3 defensive pairings.

Lines 1 and 2 are usually your best players overall and best scoring lines.... Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Saad, etc.

Lines 3 and 4 are usually your lesser talented players.... usually Line 3 will have a guy or 2 like a Versteeg or Saad who could play on the top 2 lines but there is not room up there or because that player is doing well with his 3rd line mates.

In years past the Hawks 3rd line was a shutdown defensive line we would put up against the opposing team's best scoring line, but it has not been that way over much in the last few years.

4th line will usually have your grinders who are not as offensively skilled but they can handle themselves defensively while providing a change of pace when they go on the attack.... IMO similar to going from a Matt Forte at RB to a Marion Barber.

For the D you will have 3 pairs.... usually ours are Keith and Seabrook 1, Hammer and Oduya 2, and then some combo of Rozival, TVR, and Runblad 3.

Under ideal circumstances your 3rd pair doesn't see a ton of ice time.

You will hear the announcers talk about "Rolling 4 lines" and what they mean is a coach is not mixing up his lines... just letting all 4 lines go on and off for shifts in a rotation that keeps them all fresh. Often coach Q will mix up the lines moving guys around to different combos and sitting some guys to where you may only see 8 or 9 guys hitting the ice say if we are behind or some guys are injured or not playing well or a line in particular is having trouble and getting crushed.

The D pairs usually won't get re-paired unless you see injuries or someone is out for a penalty.

When watching the Hawks.... you want to see us owning the puck.... we want it all the time regardless of where we are on the ice....on offense you want to see shots hitting the goalie or the back of the net, if they are getting disrupted or not getting shots on goal, das no good. For defense you want to see us disrupting their efforts to enter the zone but mostly you want to see our guys get a hold of the puck in our zone and quickly distribute it back to the forwards and out to center ice and beyond. If not you want to see our D disrupting or blocking shots so they are not a threat or at the very least keeping the shots contested and keep the goalie clean so the opponent is not screening him and causing him to be hampered in his efforts to make saves.

For goalies you want to see no goals obviously, but also you want to see the goalie "soaking up" shots where when they do get a shot on it is absorbed and held and not allowed out for a rebound and another chance to score.

Lastly.... if some asshat hits any of your top line guys like Hossa with some flying elbow bullshit you want to see a guy like Bickel find that cunt and punch his face in like the ******* he is so the opponent knows dat shit don't fly.



Wow. THANKS! You know way more about hockey than Despbro knows about Triumphs, Hipsters and Craft Brews combined!!!
 

clonetrooper264

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Good stuff y'all. Appreciate it.

I've seen defensive assignments mentioned a few times now. What does that mean in a hockey context? From what I can tell defense (and offense for that matter) is basically like all zones, so is sticking to your assignment basically making sure nothing happens in your zone? Seems overly simplistic, but what do I know?
 

DMelt36

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Good stuff y'all. Appreciate it.

I've seen defensive assignments mentioned a few times now. What does that mean in a hockey context? From what I can tell defense (and offense for that matter) is basically like all zones, so is sticking to your assignment basically making sure nothing happens in your zone? Seems overly simplistic, but what do I know?

Basically, the two defensemen and the center are responsible for covering the other teams three forwards (left wing, right wing, and center). These assignments are typically handed out in the order the offensive players arrive in the zone. Meaning, the two defensemen will usually pick up the first two players that enter the zone and the center picks up the third man in. This concept is crucial, as any laziness on the backcheck (a term used to describe forwards coming back on defense) can leave that third man open on a prime scoring chance.

Here's what it can look like when that third man in is not covered:

chawksgoal1.gif


Keep in mind that these assignments are not set in stone. There's a ton of moving parts in the offensive zone, so defenders' assignments can change at a moment's notice. Communication is vital in this aspect, which is why so many D-men who are new to playing with each other can struggle.

Meanwhile, the other two players on the ice, typically the right and left wings, are responsible for covering the opposing team's defensemen. The D-men routinely hang out near the blue line in an area referred to as the point (that's a term I highly recommend becoming familiar with. You'll hear it a lot). If forwards lose their responsibility on the point, goals like this can happen:

OILKeith5.gif


I was driving around for work today and thought about starting this thread up. Great idea and we all welcome more of your questions.
 

clonetrooper264

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Wow those gifs were super helpful with those concepts. Thanks for those.

Question on the top gif. I clearly saw 2 red jerseys in the middle of the ice, was the 3rd one (meaning the other, not the person that you're referring to as not being covered) off to the left side? I assumed so otherwise the gif doesn't exactly prove the point.
 

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The uncovered guy was Shaw coming in for the shot on goal.
 

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Wow those gifs were super helpful with those concepts. Thanks for those.

Question on the top gif. I clearly saw 2 red jerseys in the middle of the ice, was the 3rd one (meaning the other, not the person that you're referring to as not being covered) off to the left side? I assumed so otherwise the gif doesn't exactly prove the point.

The covered guy you didn't notice is in the very beginning of the gif in the upper left corner of the gif frame.... that player went down low either to chase the puck or carrying the puck there to draw the D in down by their own goal.... then you see the 2 Hawk players, 1 uncovered enough he makes the pass to the completely uncovered Shaw who drives the net and scores the goal.
 

clonetrooper264

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The uncovered guy was Shaw coming in for the shot on goal.

The covered guy you didn't notice is in the very beginning of the gif in the upper left corner of the gif frame.... that player went down low either to chase the puck or carrying the puck there to draw the D in down by their own goal.... then you see the 2 Hawk players, 1 uncovered enough he makes the pass to the completely uncovered Shaw who drives the net and scores the goal.
Yeah just wanted to make sure that was the case. The covered guy is hard to notice so it sort of looks like there's only two Hawks players, even though I know there should be another nearby.
 

DMelt36

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Wow those gifs were super helpful with those concepts. Thanks for those.

Question on the top gif. I clearly saw 2 red jerseys in the middle of the ice, was the 3rd one (meaning the other, not the person that you're referring to as not being covered) off to the left side? I assumed so otherwise the gif doesn't exactly prove the point.

Here's an even better look.

possession1.png


Montreal (in white) on defense, Ottawa on offense.

Montreal has two defensemen back, and No. 14 is the first forward back (This may or may not be the center. Typically, it is, but sometimes the LW or RW have to cover for him). Now in this play, you'd want the defensemen nearest the puck-carrier to attack him. I believe a similar theory applies in basketball: stop the person with the ball/puck first. Then the remaining defensemen and No. 14 need to cover the other two players.

You'd likely want the defensemen to cut off the Ottawa player in the middle and have No. 14 take No. 9. That's because the player in the middle is just a short pass away, and if he got a pass from the puck-carrier, No. 14 may not be able to catch him in time to prevent a prime scoring chance. But the defensemen is already between that player and the goal. Plus, No. 14 is already in the passing lane should the puck-carrier attempt to move it all the way across to No. 9.

Also, it appears a 4th Ottawa player is at the very bottom of this screen. I think you can see the very top of his stick. That's who the fourth Montreal player on the backcheck needs to pick up, although he may already be too late because that passing lane is wide open.
 

clonetrooper264

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I think I now understand the transition defense pretty well. It seems to bear much resemblance to basketball in terms of coverage, which helps.

So then for the "halfcourt defense" or whatever hockey's equivalent of that is, what's going on there as far as coverage? This was kind of touched on before, but I'm still a little muddy. I get that the wings are supposed to stick onto the defensemen at the point. So who or what is the center covering? Is the center sort of a free roamer who can chase the other forwards around or is he stuck to a particular area of the ice? I assume the defensemen are sort of covering a half of the ice with similar "rotations" as a basketball zone defense (ie if the puck is on the right side of the ice, the defensemen there is doing his thing while the defensemen on the left kind of rotates over to around the middle of the two zones).

And then there's the power play stuff. I see the defense in the classic 5 on 4 PP sort of just sit back in a squareish formation and try to not allow anything through to the goal. Is that basically the gist of what goes on defensively?
 

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I think I now understand the transition defense pretty well. It seems to bear much resemblance to basketball in terms of coverage, which helps.

So then for the "halfcourt defense" or whatever hockey's equivalent of that is, what's going on there as far as coverage? This was kind of touched on before, but I'm still a little muddy. I get that the wings are supposed to stick onto the defensemen at the point. So who or what is the center covering? Is the center sort of a free roamer who can chase the other forwards around or is he stuck to a particular area of the ice? I assume the defensemen are sort of covering a half of the ice with similar "rotations" as a basketball zone defense (ie if the puck is on the right side of the ice, the defensemen there is doing his thing while the defensemen on the left kind of rotates over to around the middle of the two zones).

Typically that center is covering the other team's center, as the other team's center is usually the 3rd man into the zone. And you're right about the defensemen sort of covering a half of ice each.

And then there's the power play stuff. I see the defense in the classic 5 on 4 PP sort of just sit back in a squareish formation and try to not allow anything through to the goal. Is that basically the gist of what goes on defensively?

Pretty much. Sometimes it's a box and at other times in resemble more of a diamond shape based on what the opponent is doing.

I don't know much about basketball but it's starting to seem like the defensive-zone coverages are quite similar between the two sports.
 

DMelt36

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Gonna try and locate some GIFs of Hawks goals tonight and then we'll get a consensus on what mistakes happened to allow the scoring chances to develop. Seems like the easiest way to explain it.
 

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