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  1. #1673
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    Quote Originally Posted by beckdawg View Post
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    mlb.com hasn't updated their rankings from the midseason rankings yet. So it's not that surprising.
    Yeah, you normally see guys go from 11 to 1 and from outside the top 30 to the top 10 in a three month span all the time.

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  3. #1674
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanTown View Post
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    Yeah, you normally see guys go from 11 to 1 and from outside the top 30 to the top 10 in a three month span all the time.
    Your sarcasm aside, Velazquez was a 5th round pick this year. Of fucking course he's not going to be ranked in the top 30 less than a month after being drafted. As for Ademan, he wasn't ranked at the 2016 midseason either. He went from unranked to 11th or likely slightly lower given the cubs dealt a few pieces for Q. Either way he went unranked into their top 15. Albertos went from 10th at 2016 midseason to #2 coming into the season if memory serves. So yes it does happen all the time.

  4. #1675
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    Quote Originally Posted by beckdawg View Post
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    Your sarcasm aside, Velazquez was a 5th round pick this year. Of fucking course he's not going to be ranked in the top 30 less than a month after being drafted. As for Ademan, he wasn't ranked at the 2016 midseason either. He went from unranked to 11th or likely slightly lower given the cubs dealt a few pieces for Q. Either way he went unranked into their top 15. Albertos went from 10th at 2016 midseason to #2 coming into the season if memory serves. So yes it does happen all the time.
    Albertos was never top four, let alone two, this preseason with Eloy, Happ, Cease, and Almora all ahead of him. And it's not that big a jump when guys leave the system but in the case of Ademan and Velazquez, they passed active prospects in the system, not just moving up the ladder because of graduations/trades.

    I'm basically saying a guy going from behind eight or nine guys at the midseason (according to one site) and then being ahead of all those guys in one half of a season when the guy doesn't do anything amazing (but Ademan had a very good showing in rookie ball) is a strange jump to make for him. I obviously think he's a future starting SS but the jump he got from BA seems weird to me.

    And it's also weird that a guy with a .236/.333/.536 slash with a high K rate after being drafted in round 5 (even above slot) makes the top 10 for BA. To me, they're undervaluing a lot of the arms the Cubs have if they think he's a top 10 guy right now.

  5. #1676
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanTown View Post
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    Albertos was never top four, let alone two, this preseason with Eloy, Happ, Cease, and Almora all ahead of him. And it's not that big a jump when guys leave the system but in the case of Ademan and Velazquez, they passed active prospects in the system, not just moving up the ladder because of graduations/trades.

    I'm basically saying a guy going from behind eight or nine guys at the midseason (according to one site) and then being ahead of all those guys in one half of a season when the guy doesn't do anything amazing (but Ademan had a very good showing in rookie ball) is a strange jump to make for him. I obviously think he's a future starting SS but the jump he got from BA seems weird to me.

    And it's also weird that a guy with a .236/.333/.536 slash with a high K rate after being drafted in round 5 (even above slot) makes the top 10 for BA. To me, they're undervaluing a lot of the arms the Cubs have if they think he's a top 10 guy right now.
    On Ademan, i mean its unusual but not unprecedented. As I said, the thought prior to this year was he was a good glove SS who wouldn't hit amazingly. But when you go out at 18 and hit .286/.365/.466 in A- people start to reevaluate. I think he's where he's at because they already knew he was a good glove but now believe more in his bat. And let's not forget here that the cubs gave him $2 mil when they signed him. It's not like he was some $300k cheap signing that sprouted up. In a normal IFA class(which 2015 wasn't because of all the cubans) he's probably a top 5 or top 10 signing. Eloy if memory serves only got $3 mil. So, clearly the cubs viewed him as a very good talent.

    On Velazquez, as I said he went to HS in puerto rico which I believe isn't as heavily scouted as the US. So he was a bit of an unknown. Around the draft there was very little info on him publicly. Maybe teams had more but we don't know. So, the fact he was a 5th round pick really shouldn't surprise you. As for where he is now, Sure he hit .236/.333/.536 in mesa but do you know what Eloy hit in mesa? .227/.268/.367 over 164 PAs. Velazquez had a .300 ISO while Jimenez had a .140 ISO. Now granted Eloy was 17 and Velazquez was 18 and frankly a .300 ISO isn't sustainable but we know what kind of power Jimenez has. And most view him as a LF only. Velazquez played 72.1 innings in CF, 133.0 in LF and 9.0 in RF.

    Now I don't k now for certain that he'll be a long term CF. Like I said earlier I want to see what scouting says on him because frankly there's not much out there about his defense. But the guy stole 5 bases in 32 games which tells me he's likely got good speed(also read that on the draft scouting). But if he does stick do you realize how absurd that kind of power is out of a CF? I'm going to throw another comparison at you. Look at Lewis Brinson who was another raw HS CF prospect.

    At 18 in rookie league he hit .283/.345/.523 with 7.9%/27.9% bb/k rates and a wRC+ of 122. Velazquez also at 18 hit .236/.333/.536 with 11.9%/31.0% bb/k rates and a wRC+ of 129. Brinson was the 29th pick in the 2012 draft. Brinson had more PAs so his 14 SB look superior but at the rate Velazquez was stealing over similar PAs he would have had 11 so that's pretty close. And while .283 vs .236 looks like a hammering, Brinson had a .377 BABIP compared to .286 for Velazquez. Velazquez has a slightly bigger issue with k rate but was quite a bit better in terms of his walk rate and power.

    If you want to quibble that Brinson was better at the same age I'm not really interested in arguing the point. However, what I will point out is the two in any argument are relatively similar. And as of mlb.com's midseason rankings Brinson was the #12 prospect in all of baseball. So while it's easy to say "oh he's just a 5th round pick," context is important. League average among CF in ISO last year was .164. So you could literally cut his ISO in half and it would still be league average for what you'd expect out of a CF and the kid is 18. He's going to get bigger and stronger. Brinson was given 60 grade power by mlb.com and at the same age Velazquez has shown more power.

    Velazquez obviously has work to do with regards to his K rate but ask yourself this... have this cubs front office missed on any bat? For example between their draft picks and the IFA signings who are the worst guys they gotten? The only semi-questionable IFA that comes to mind is Eddy Martinez who hasn't been terrible just not worth what he signed for thus far. But basically everyone else who's been given big money has hit and in the cases of Torres/Ademan/Jimenez they've hit well enough to turn in to apparent big time prospects. In terms of drafted guys in the first 10 round I can only really name Krist who's a C. Maybe Darryl Wilson hasn't quite lived up to expectations but scouts still like him quite a bit. But you contrast that with the numerous guys they have who've been better than people thought like Schwarber and to a lessor extent Bryant.

    So while I get that people are going to feel like Velazquez is a "WHO?," I don't think them putting him at #10 is unwarranted. He ran a faster 60 yard than the #1 pick Royce Lewis who mlb.com had as 70 grade on speed. When you put that together with the kind of power he showed in mesa and an apparent ability to play CF there's just not many players who can do that. I mean if you conservatively say he's got 25 HR power that is something only 7 MLB CF did. And only 3 of those 7 stole more than 10 bases(McCutchen, Trout, Charlie Blackmon).

    He's a player cubs fans should be excited over. And if you're talking about player ceilings their may not be a cub prospect with a higher ceiling. And if we're being real here who deserves to be ahead of him? There's really only 3 names I see on the cubs top 30 that even warrant consideration. Maples I could see but he's basically already in the majors and a reliever. So leaving him off isn't a big deal to me. Keegan Thompson and Cory Abbott I think you could make a case for but I doubt either has as much upside as Velazquez. And while I love Michael Rucker from a stats point of view scouting on him doesn't seem as keen.

  6. #1677
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    Quote Originally Posted by beckdawg View Post
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    On Ademan, i mean its unusual but not unprecedented. As I said, the thought prior to this year was he was a good glove SS who wouldn't hit amazingly. But when you go out at 18 and hit .286/.365/.466 in A- people start to reevaluate. I think he's where he's at because they already knew he was a good glove but now believe more in his bat. And let's not forget here that the cubs gave him $2 mil when they signed him. It's not like he was some $300k cheap signing that sprouted up. In a normal IFA class(which 2015 wasn't because of all the cubans) he's probably a top 5 or top 10 signing. Eloy if memory serves only got $3 mil. So, clearly the cubs viewed him as a very good talent.

    On Velazquez, as I said he went to HS in puerto rico which I believe isn't as heavily scouted as the US. So he was a bit of an unknown. Around the draft there was very little info on him publicly. Maybe teams had more but we don't know. So, the fact he was a 5th round pick really shouldn't surprise you. As for where he is now, Sure he hit .236/.333/.536 in mesa but do you know what Eloy hit in mesa? .227/.268/.367 over 164 PAs. Velazquez had a .300 ISO while Jimenez had a .140 ISO. Now granted Eloy was 17 and Velazquez was 18 and frankly a .300 ISO isn't sustainable but we know what kind of power Jimenez has. And most view him as a LF only. Velazquez played 72.1 innings in CF, 133.0 in LF and 9.0 in RF.

    Now I don't k now for certain that he'll be a long term CF. Like I said earlier I want to see what scouting says on him because frankly there's not much out there about his defense. But the guy stole 5 bases in 32 games which tells me he's likely got good speed(also read that on the draft scouting). But if he does stick do you realize how absurd that kind of power is out of a CF? I'm going to throw another comparison at you. Look at Lewis Brinson who was another raw HS CF prospect.

    At 18 in rookie league he hit .283/.345/.523 with 7.9%/27.9% bb/k rates and a wRC+ of 122. Velazquez also at 18 hit .236/.333/.536 with 11.9%/31.0% bb/k rates and a wRC+ of 129. Brinson was the 29th pick in the 2012 draft. Brinson had more PAs so his 14 SB look superior but at the rate Velazquez was stealing over similar PAs he would have had 11 so that's pretty close. And while .283 vs .236 looks like a hammering, Brinson had a .377 BABIP compared to .286 for Velazquez. Velazquez has a slightly bigger issue with k rate but was quite a bit better in terms of his walk rate and power.

    If you want to quibble that Brinson was better at the same age I'm not really interested in arguing the point. However, what I will point out is the two in any argument are relatively similar. And as of mlb.com's midseason rankings Brinson was the #12 prospect in all of baseball. So while it's easy to say "oh he's just a 5th round pick," context is important. League average among CF in ISO last year was .164. So you could literally cut his ISO in half and it would still be league average for what you'd expect out of a CF and the kid is 18. He's going to get bigger and stronger. Brinson was given 60 grade power by mlb.com and at the same age Velazquez has shown more power.

    Velazquez obviously has work to do with regards to his K rate but ask yourself this... have this cubs front office missed on any bat? For example between their draft picks and the IFA signings who are the worst guys they gotten? The only semi-questionable IFA that comes to mind is Eddy Martinez who hasn't been terrible just not worth what he signed for thus far. But basically everyone else who's been given big money has hit and in the cases of Torres/Ademan/Jimenez they've hit well enough to turn in to apparent big time prospects. In terms of drafted guys in the first 10 round I can only really name Krist who's a C. Maybe Darryl Wilson hasn't quite lived up to expectations but scouts still like him quite a bit. But you contrast that with the numerous guys they have who've been better than people thought like Schwarber and to a lessor extent Bryant.

    So while I get that people are going to feel like Velazquez is a "WHO?," I don't think them putting him at #10 is unwarranted. He ran a faster 60 yard than the #1 pick Royce Lewis who mlb.com had as 70 grade on speed. When you put that together with the kind of power he showed in mesa and an apparent ability to play CF there's just not many players who can do that. I mean if you conservatively say he's got 25 HR power that is something only 7 MLB CF did. And only 3 of those 7 stole more than 10 bases(McCutchen, Trout, Charlie Blackmon).

    He's a player cubs fans should be excited over. And if you're talking about player ceilings their may not be a cub prospect with a higher ceiling. And if we're being real here who deserves to be ahead of him? There's really only 3 names I see on the cubs top 30 that even warrant consideration. Maples I could see but he's basically already in the majors and a reliever. So leaving him off isn't a big deal to me. Keegan Thompson and Cory Abbott I think you could make a case for but I doubt either has as much upside as Velazquez. And while I love Michael Rucker from a stats point of view scouting on him doesn't seem as keen.
    I don't disagree that Velazquez is a top high potential prospect, I disagree that you could make that assessment and put him in the top 10 right now. While I'm impressed by everything I've ever read on him as a prospect, I'd prefer to see him do it more to put him that high and ahead of other guys like say Zagunis, who's posted solid numbers everywhere he's ever hit. And again, it's not so much that I disagree with his rank (I'd have him in that 12-16 range personally based on things I've read about him and higher than some guys the Cubs drafted ahead of him in the same draft), it's that BA has him 10 and MLB didn't even have him 30. My initial point was the difference between the two rankings, even though from different time periods, in such a short time.

    And the Cubs have missed on bats all the time. Soler and Hannemann are two that never lived up to their expectations, Dewees wasn't anything special, DJ Wilson hasn't shown anything (obviously early on him), they've overspent on a few guys that didn't work out of the Caribbean (EJM, Estiwal) but the Dominican is basically not about batting even .400, it's just signing as many quality guys you can and hoping they stick. I would just disagree that the Cubs "have never missed on a bat".

  7. #1678
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanTown View Post
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    I don't disagree that Velazquez is a top high potential prospect, I disagree that you could make that assessment and put him in the top 10 right now. While I'm impressed by everything I've ever read on him as a prospect, I'd prefer to see him do it more to put him that high and ahead of other guys like say Zagunis, who's posted solid numbers everywhere he's ever hit. And again, it's not so much that I disagree with his rank (I'd have him in that 12-16 range personally based on things I've read about him and higher than some guys the Cubs drafted ahead of him in the same draft), it's that BA has him 10 and MLB didn't even have him 30. My initial point was the difference between the two rankings, even though from different time periods, in such a short time.

    And the Cubs have missed on bats all the time. Soler and Hannemann are two that never lived up to their expectations, Dewees wasn't anything special, DJ Wilson hasn't shown anything (obviously early on him), they've overspent on a few guys that didn't work out of the Caribbean (EJM, Estiwal) but the Dominican is basically not about batting even .400, it's just signing as many quality guys you can and hoping they stick. I would just disagree that the Cubs "have never missed on a bat".
    On the first part, I think you're really underselling how much mlb.com will change their rankings this winter. No one had even heard of Paredes headed into this past winter and MLB put him in the top 15 to start last year along with Ademan. And I will also say that BA is always a group that is higher on tools. Zagunis isn't really going to appeal to them because while he's safe and alright he's not ever going to be a star. If you go back and look at how BA ranks they almost always put heavy emphasis on C, SS and CF. You very rarely see LF only prospects or 1B make their top 100 and those who do tend to be absurdly good bats.

    As for the second point, Hannemann made the majors as a 3rd round pick. I certainly wouldn't say he was "special" but the guy hit .265/.324/.404 in Iowa this year and is a strong defender. I wouldn't call that "missing." Like wise, Soler made the majors and has shown some promise though that appears more in the past. He was what a top 25 prospect when he made the majors. Again, I wouldn't call that a miss. Dewees has hit .275/.332/.404 in the minors. He's not likely to be a star but that's a good hitter and almost certainly makes the majors. None of those I would call "missing" because if you get a IFA or draft pick to the majors you're way ahead of average. On Wilson, he had a rough first half this year but scouts like him still and was really good upon returning to A ball. Eddy Martinez as I mentioned I think has been a disappointment but he's not been brutally bad and there's still some upside. He can't seem to hit before June for whatever reason but has been really good in the second half of the past 2 years.

    There's perhaps a few guys in the 2015 IFA class who are iffy. But if you hit on 30% of IFA's you're generally doing pretty good and I think the cubs are well within that. The 2013 IFA class from the cubs was Eloy/Torres/Tseng/Erling Moreno/Wladimir Galindo. The first 3 are obvious hits. Moreno is less known but mlb.com's midseason list had him at #26 and Galindo at #25. 2015 was Eddy Martinez/Ademan/Jonathan Sierra/Yonathan Perlaza/Miguel Amaya/Kwon as the bigger names. Kwon hasn't looked very good but he's only 19. Martinez as mentioned above has been meh but looks on track to still make the majors. Ademan looks fantastic. Sierra hit .259/.332/.368 in mesa which is respectable enough for an 18 year old. Perlaza looked a lot better in the DSL in 2016 than he did in Mesa. But think at 18 it's far to early to call him a bust. Amaya was pretty good in mesa in 2016 but looked like A- was a bit much for his bat in 2017. That was sorta the book on him though that he was really advanced defensively as a C but not as much with the bat yet. The less known names from the 2015 class though are also interesting. Fernando Kelli hit .320/.437/.443 in the DSL as a CF and stole 58 bases in 67 games. Orian Nunez also looked really good in the DSL hitting .305/.379/.416 with 22 SB in 61 games.

    Regardless here, my point is that the cubs are inarguably one of the best teams at scouting hitting. Now sure a guy like Soler hasn't reached his ceiling but he still made the majors. I don't think you should undersell that. Soler's issues were never that he couldn't hit. They were his defense and his ability to stay on the field. And in the case of Velazquez, the fact you're seeing that kind of power out of an 18 year old with the ability to walk already is a strong indication for me. When I read he was raw in the draft reports I assumed both his bb and k rates would be bad. But the performance he put out is just a guy who needs to work on avoiding K's and I think he'll be better than people think.

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    Another slow week has dropped David Bote (.333/.395/.536) out of the top 10 in batting average and on-base percentage but he is still hanging on to 8th in slugging. He did knock in 3 runs in his 2 games, going 2-for-10.

    He hasn't managed to get his bat going with consistency but Charcer Burks (.242/.338/.339) did reach base 8 times (4 hits, 4 walks) over 4 games. He scored 4 times and drove in a pair.

    Jason Vosler (.216/.333/.351) still hasn't found his home run stroke, hitting just two in his first 21 games, but he is beginning to reach base more consistently. He drew 3 walks and collected 3 hits in his 3 appearances last week.

    He appeared in just one game last week but Ian Rice (.297/.422/.432) did double and score during the contest.

    I'm going to copy and paste the same update I included in the last installment: Another week, another 4 inning, 1 run performance by Alec Mills (1-3, 3.91). It is a result he has now replicated in 4 of his last 5 starts. He is throwing strikes (6 walks), punching out his fair share (20 in 23 innings). Mills isn't overpowering, but his fastball-changeup combo generates ground balls and enough swings-and-misses. His lack of a good breaking ball limits his upside as a major leaguer, but don't be shocked if Mills gets an opportunity as a fill in starter or middle reliever at some point in 2018.

    Jake Stinnett (0-0, 2.08) stayed on a roll, striking out 2 in his lone inning of work. He has now punched out 12 in 8.2 IP.

    Pedro Araujo was less successful. He gave up 2 runs (1 earned) in 2 innings. He did strike out 3 but walked 1 and gave up a hit as well.

    Adbert Alzolay did not appear in a game last week.

    http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2...report-week-5/

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    Stinnett is honestly becoming intriguing right now. I'm not 100% in on him because of his walk rates in the minors. 3.38 per 9. But in the pen it has gone to 3.18. SO/9 career 7.59 in pen: 10.75. So 12.6 in the AFL is not a aberration. To say the least he is becoming interesting as long as he can get his BB/9 around 2.

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    Week 5 in the winter leagues was a little quiet, as the Cubs did not make any further moves or add any more players to the winter league rosters. But Manuel Rodriguez continues to impress in Mexico while Gioskar Amaya continues his comeback in Venezuela.


    Mexican Pacific League

    Caneros de los Mochis

    It seems that Los Mochis can never string together any success this year, but Wednesday saw the Caneros top equally inconsistent Navojoa 2-1. Entering in the sixth inning, Manuel Rodriguez had one of his best outings of the winter, tossing two perfect innings and striking out three. Los Mochis 2 - Navojoa 1

    The first half race is tightening in LMP, as the Canemen moved to three games out of first place with a fourteen inning 5-4 victory over league leading Culiacan on Saturday. With two out in the eleventh inning, Manuel Rodriguez entered and struck out three in 2.1 scoreless innings. Los Mochis 5 - Culiacan 4



    Tomateros de Culiacan

    It was a total collapse for Culiacan on Wednesday, as the Tomateros allowed seven runs in the final two innings to lose 9-2 to Hermosillo. Ali Solis caught the entire game and was 1-for-3 in the loss. Hermosillo 9 - Culiacan 2

    The Tomatomen fell into a three way tie of first place on Saturday with a 5-4 loss to Los Mochis fourteen innings. Running for Alexis Wilson in the eighth inning, Ali Solis stayed in to catch the rest of the game and go 1-for-2 at the plate. Caneros 5 - Tomateros 4



    Venezuelan Winter League

    Cardenales de Lara

    In Monday night’s spotlight game, Lara pitching was roughed up in a 9-7 loss to Zulia. Coming in for former Cubs prospect Yoanner Negrin with one out in the fifth, Yapson Gomez gave up two earned runs while failing to record an out. Zulia 9 - Lara 7

    It was a doubleheader day on Friday for the Cardenales as they were thumped in Game 1 by Zulia 5-1. Iowa right-hander Williams Perez served up four earned runs in the first inning, including a three-run home run. Perez would go only 2.1 innings and strike out three batters. Zulia 5 - Lara 1



    Caribes de Anzoategui

    Anzoategui continued to try and crawl out of the VWL basement on Sunday as they took Game 2 of a doubleheader with Margarita 3-0. Erick Castillo caught the second game and was 1-for-3 in the win. Anzoategui 3 - Margarita 0

    Still fighting to stay relevant in the first half of the season, the Caribes defeated Magallanes 6-2 on Thursday. Erick Castillo had a hand in the outcome, as he was 1-for-2 with a double and a run scored. Anzoategui 6 - Magallanes 2

    The Tribe broke out their bats on Friday as they pounded out 16 hits in an 11-6 victory over Magallanes. Erick Castillo was back at catcher and went 1-for-5 with a run scored in the victory. Anzoategui 11 - Magallanes 6



    Navegantes del Magallanes

    In the only game on the schedule on Tuesday, Magallanes continued the trend of high scoring affairs in the VWL with a 10-6 in over Caracas. In his first start in the field, Gioskar Amaya was 1-for-3 with a walk, an RBI, and a run scored while manning second base. Magallanes 10 - Caracas 6

    Make it two in a row for the Navegantes as they used a three-run seventh to edge out Anzoategui 8-5 on Wednesday. Gioskar Amaya moved over to third base and was 0-for-4, but had an RBI and a walk in the win. Magallanes 8 - Anzoategui 5

    In a slugfest on Friday, the Nav’s were unable to keep up with Anzoategui, losing 11-6. Gioskar Amaya was back at second base and went 1-for-4 in the loss. Caribes 11 - Navegantes 6

    The offense continued to be in high gear for Magallanes on Saturday as they turned 12 hits into an 8-5 victory over La Guaira. Joining in on the festivities was Gioskar Amaya, who went 1-for-4 while remaining at second base. Magallanes 8 - La Guaira 5



    Bravos de Margarita

    Margarita was stymied on Friday night, as their six hits led to nothing in a 6-0 loss to Caracas. Eugenio Palma was the only Braves pitcher not scored upon, as he tossed a perfect sixth inning. Caracas 6 - Margarita 0



    Tiburones de La Guaira

    In a potential bid for a second half surge, LaGuaira doubled up Margarita 10-5 on Wednesday. After a few starts at third base, Yasiel Balaguert was at DH and homered in the seventh inning, going 1-for-4 with two RBI. La Guaira 10 - Margarita 5



    Tigres de Aragua

    Aragua started the week on a sour note, losing to Magallanes 5-3. Stephen Perakslis was roughed up once again, allowing five earned runs on seven hits and a walk in 3.2 innings. Teammate James Pugliese was able to stem the tide, pitching 1.1 innings of relief. Lead-off hitter Carlos Penalver was 0-for-5. Magallanes 5 - Aragua 3

    Two days off were no help for the Tigers on Wednesday, as they were humbled by Caracas 7-2. Former Iowa Cub Seth Frankoff throttled Aragua for five innings, as Carlos Penalver went 0-for-4. James Pugliese entered in the seventh and struck out a batter while giving up a hit in 1.1 scoreless innings. Caracas 7 - Aragua 2

    A pitcher’s duel on Saturday saw the Tigres come out on the short end, as they lost to Zulia 1-0. Carlos Penalver collected one of Aragua’s five hits, as he went 1-for-3 in the loss. Zulia 1 - Aragua 0

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSF77 View Post
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    Stinnett is honestly becoming intriguing right now. I'm not 100% in on him because of his walk rates in the minors. 3.38 per 9. But in the pen it has gone to 3.18. SO/9 career 7.59 in pen: 10.75. So 12.6 in the AFL is not a aberration. To say the least he is becoming interesting as long as he can get his BB/9 around 2.
    Thing was he was a closer in college if memory serves and the cubs saw something that made them think he could start though I do believe he was a under slot signing. So the fact he's pitching well in relief isn't that surprising. Probably not ideal for a 2nd round pick but given what reliever prices are these days maybe it's not so bad. He seems pretty safe to make it to the majors at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beckdawg View Post
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    Thing was he was a closer in college if memory serves and the cubs saw something that made them think he could start though I do believe he was a under slot signing. So the fact he's pitching well in relief isn't that surprising. Probably not ideal for a 2nd round pick but given what reliever prices are these days maybe it's not so bad. He seems pretty safe to make it to the majors at this point.
    Like I said. He really needs to get his BB/9 around 2. 3+ at that level is just going to implode vs advanced hitting. This will be the issue Maples will see also. But the talent is there for sure. They just need to keep around the plate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSF77 View Post
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    Like I said. He really needs to get his BB/9 around 2. 3+ at that level is just going to implode vs advanced hitting. This will be the issue Maples will see also. But the talent is there for sure. They just need to keep around the plate.
    3 bb/9 is basically average among pitching. League wide starters were at 7.96/3.13 while relievers were at 8.97/3.55. It's not ideal obviously but it's not that big of a deal if he gets strikeouts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beckdawg View Post
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    3 bb/9 is basically average among pitching. League wide starters were at 7.96/3.13 while relievers were at 8.97/3.55. It's not ideal obviously but it's not that big of a deal if he gets strikeouts.
    That is true but this is against younger talent that tends to swing more to get noticed.

    I see him in Iowa myself. Which could be interesting with him, Maples and Black when he gets back. Could end up a power back of the rotation.

    On Mills I really donít know his upside. I didnít like the whole curve ball lacking thing and being a fastball/change guy. It really makes him limited going forward. Some guys can pull it off but with out a legit 3rd pitch Iím doubtful. Regardless I see him in Iowa again proving that he is healthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSF77 View Post
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    That is true but this is against younger talent that tends to swing more to get noticed.

    I see him in Iowa myself. Which could be interesting with him, Maples and Black when he gets back. Could end up a power back of the rotation.

    On Mills I really don’t know his upside. I didn’t like the whole curve ball lacking thing and being a fastball/change guy. It really makes him limited going forward. Some guys can pull it off but with out a legit 3rd pitch I’m doubtful. Regardless I see him in Iowa again proving that he is healthy.
    K/bb rates tend to be fairly similar level to level. Specifically walk rates tend to be pretty accurate because if you have command you're using it. K rates drop a little often vs what you did in the minors but that's not always the case. Difference is obviously better hitters strike out less but if you're walking guys you're going to still walk them regardless of level. On way it's really different are guys who chase out of the zone pitches but there's not enough of that to really warrant worrying about.

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    I like Stinnett but he’s already going to be 26 so it’s time to see how he does at AAA and maybe he’s a major leaguer when an injury happens.

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    Guess they hate Tseng in general. Bunch of players who honestly have low chance of making it but the guy that proved to have the best year and come back is a non factor. They even ranked Mills who has realistically 2 pitches while Tseng has 4.

    IDK honestly on this. I get Alozay as the top arm. BA did this also with Adlman as the 1. Iím fine with that. MLB was giving too much love to a DL case IMO anyways. Lange and Little you can switch back and forth and no one will care. Put a player in between then you might get some eyebrows raised. Not enough info to separate 2 pretty close draft picks honestly.

    So over all Iím not down with the snub of Tseng. Not when Paulino and Hudson are ranked ahead and honestly are nothing special and had back of the rotation seasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSF77 View Post
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    Guess they hate Tseng in general. Bunch of players who honestly have low chance of making it but the guy that proved to have the best year and come back is a non factor. They even ranked Mills who has realistically 2 pitches while Tseng has 4.

    IDK honestly on this. I get Alozay as the top arm. BA did this also with Adlman as the 1. I’m fine with that. MLB was giving too much love to a DL case IMO anyways. Lange and Little you can switch back and forth and no one will care. Put a player in between then you might get some eyebrows raised. Not enough info to separate 2 pretty close draft picks honestly.

    So over all I’m not down with the snub of Tseng. Not when Paulino and Hudson are ranked ahead and honestly are nothing special and had back of the rotation seasons.
    Nothing to do with hating anyone. It's just that tseng is what he is. A low ceiling back of the rotation starter. It's the same thought process that lead Hendricks to be a BOR low on prospect list guy. Like the thing people need to understand about scouting is they will often fall into a trap of liking someone with tools more than someone who's useful today. It's great to have absurd stuff like say maples but if you can't actively throw strikes in the zone then what good are you?

    On the flip side, I think the cubs front office really values command. They haven't selected many starters who have great stuff and iffy command. Some of that is about where they selected guys but in generally they appear to rather have Lester/Q types than higher k rate guys who may not have command. That's both good and bad. You limit the risk of totally sucking but you also likely miss out on some guys who end up being the literal cream of the crop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beckdawg View Post
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    Nothing to do with hating anyone. It's just that tseng is what he is. A low ceiling back of the rotation starter. It's the same thought process that lead Hendricks to be a BOR low on prospect list guy. Like the thing people need to understand about scouting is they will often fall into a trap of liking someone with tools more than someone who's useful today. It's great to have absurd stuff like say maples but if you can't actively throw strikes in the zone then what good are you?

    On the flip side, I think the cubs front office really values command. They haven't selected many starters who have great stuff and iffy command. Some of that is about where they selected guys but in generally they appear to rather have Lester/Q types than higher k rate guys who may not have command. That's both good and bad. You limit the risk of totally sucking but you also likely miss out on some guys who end up being the literal cream of the crop.
    I doubt Jose Paulino Bryan Hudson Pedro Araujo Javier Assad will even make it to a major league game.

    IMO the fact that Tseng has made it and pitched in a game vs a bunch of guys that may never play above the A level makes the whole system jaded.

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