Blackhawks announce Asst. Equipment Manager Clint Reif has passed away

TCD

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They tell us that suicide is the greatest piece of cowardice... that suicide is wrong; when it is quite obvious that there is nothing in the world to which every man has a more unassailable title than to his own life and person.
Arthur Schopenhauer

Great quote.

My question is who is telling us suicide is cowardly? Where does this ideal come from at it's roots. Hate to say it but I am willing to bet it comes straight out of that stupid damn fancy book of mythology that is found in hotel drawers. That book that states that some unseen magic man up in the sky owns us and won't let us live on that fluffy cloud with him if we denounced that ownership. Usually where all this hogwash begins.

And I don't want to be the anti-religion guy because I am not that person. I know the positives relgion of all forms have served even for myself but the negatives need to be called out when fit to do so.
 

Shantz My Pants

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I think a lot of people don't understand because they've never dealt with it either through themselves or someone who is very close to them.

I had someone very close to me attempted suicide. Was a very scary, sad and in itself a depressing situation. This person was one who I NEVER expected it to happen to, yet it did. Did I ever think they were a coward? No. Was I mad and disappointed they did it? At first, but that experience and knowledge i developed helped me understand the dynamics more so as I've been depressed plenty of times before, but never at that point. It's not a selfish act, as to them they are actually being selfless, thinking of others being better off without them. Such as that others lives would be more beneficial if that person ceased to exist and not understanding that those peoples lives would be worse is how messed up the illness is.

I think mental illness needs to be brought more to the forefront and people need to be educated more, especially in educational institutions. HS does not always show the real world, which in one aspect I understand but in another it doesn't prepare young adults for the extremely different world they are about to walk into. Definitely needs to be more recognition in society on mental illness and that it's real, but not a death sentence and can be handled (in most cases).


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BlackHawkPaul

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Great quote.

My question is who is telling us suicide is cowardly? Where does this ideal come from at it's roots. Hate to say it but I am willing to bet it comes straight out of that stupid damn fancy book of mythology that is found in hotel drawers. That book that states that some unseen magic man up in the sky owns us and won't let us live on that fluffy cloud with him if we denounced that ownership. Usually where all this hogwash begins.

I can see that, however not everyone interprets that book the same way (Hospice care for example). I know some very empathetic people that come from religious backgrounds, and some utter pricks that like to use that book as a vessel to harm others. I don't want into throw everyone in the same category.
I remember being taught as a little boy the "dangers" of suicide and it being a mortal sin (basically, killing yourself was the worst kind of murder). I have moved away from those thoughts and indoctrinations.
 

TCD

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One of the most difficult situations Trev I have gone through it with friends and familly also. wish there was a nice written instruction book on what to say when you get phone calls like that but there is not. Such hard subject matter everyones experiences are different because the individual cases are different. There is no nice clean line linking it all together that sucker is a web.
 

Shantz My Pants

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As I say to many of my friends who have been diagnosed with panic/anxiety disorder in the past (which I suffer from + OCD) and come to me as I'm open about it, you've got to work on yourself and realize things will get better. Your situation will be not be exactly like everyone else's so don't compare. Just take it one day at a time.


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BlackHawkPaul

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One of the most difficult situations Trev I have gone through it with friends and familly also. wish there was a nice written instruction book on what to say when you get phone calls like that but there is not. Such hard subject matter everyones experiences are different because the individual cases are different. There is no nice clean line linking it all together that sucker is a web.


Yeah, I hated the phone calls from my buddy 120 miles away. Gun in his mouth, ready to pull the trigger, and I needed to somehow talk him off the ledge, because there's no way I can stop a bullet from 120 miles away if I physically hop in the car to attempt to prevent his death. I succeeded that day, but the depression later consumed him.
Now I can only wish that the phone would ring and it would be him.
His story made the news, so the trolls came with it. Once in a while someone would post that he was a coward, or that he's burning in hell and I wondered what kind of person would post things like that.

RIP Clint.
You won't see me post ill of you.
 

TCD

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The most cowardly people in the world are those who go after those who are not present or capable of defending themselves.

I know who the real cowards are.
 

Pez68

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I can't believe you guys let that moron troll you like that. This anger is probably the exact reaction he was looking for. Don't feed the trolls.
 

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I can't believe you guys let that moron troll you like that. This anger is probably the exact reaction he was looking for. Don't feed the trolls.
It's always been that way when the topic came up on IHN... we always have the one guy comes in trolling and spouting shit, people band against him they go away. It tends to be less of a disruption than taking actual actual against him that people thing is censoring or cross the line moderation bullshit. Or maybe someone else did something I don't know, but it's all back down now and we need to probably refocus the thread on the intended target.

RIP Clint.

Maybe we can open up the suicide discussion in the Beliefs forum or the bar, whatever is appropriate
 

Ares

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It's always been that way when the topic came up on IHN... we always have the one guy comes in trolling and spouting shit, people band against him they go away. It tends to be less of a disruption than taking actual actual against him that people thing is censoring or cross the line moderation bullshit. Or maybe someone else did something I don't know, but it's all back down now and we need to probably refocus the thread on the intended target.

RIP Clint.

Maybe we can open up the suicide discussion in the Beliefs forum or the bar, whatever is appropriate

None of the mods banned him as far as I can tell.... if they did it would normally get posted in the Village of the Banned thread in CCS Announcements.
 

MassHavoc

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None of the mods banned him as far as I can tell.... if they did it would normally get posted in the Village of the Banned thread in CCS Announcements.

Well there you go. And I don't think people should be banned just for being dumb asses.
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Great quote.

My question is who is telling us suicide is cowardly? Where does this ideal come from at it's roots. Hate to say it but I am willing to bet it comes straight out of that stupid damn fancy book of mythology that is found in hotel drawers. That book that states that some unseen magic man up in the sky owns us and won't let us live on that fluffy cloud with him if we denounced that ownership. Usually where all this hogwash begins.

And I don't want to be the anti-religion guy because I am not that person. I know the positives relgion of all forms have served even for myself but the negatives need to be called out when fit to do so.
Ahh, don't worry, I have no problem being the one to slam religion :)

Seriously though, I think the issue with why people percieve suicide as cowardly is for a couple of reasons. One close to this circumstance is the fact that a brain that would be considered "under the bell curve" would be prone to get through a depressive state and not be inclined to self-terminate. Unfortunately, those that are suffering from depression--especially from a chemical imbalance, don't fall under that bell curve and it alters perception from what most who fall under the bell curve think it should be.

And like has been pointed out, one can be clinically depressed and show no outward signs of it; thus appearing "normal"

I think this is reflected in religion especially since in many cases religion--at least from the perspective of the religion as an institution (not from individual practice), has gone from being about morality and more towards perpetuating the religion and it's influence (at least, that's the only way I can explain some strains of christianity saying that the most ethically-upright atheist will burn in agony in hell for all of eternity but a serial kille that raped and murdered a buttload of victims who converts before they are executed get into heaven). That being said, since way back when the holy books said suicide was wrong, it's perpetuated as a black & white issue, without any gray area.

But take that for what it's worth, I live in one of the most irreligious states (based on church attendance) and the 1st one to legalize medically assisted suicide.

As for the trolls calling people cowards with their "online psych degrees". Pay them no heed, they're likley fat, sweaty, hairy, virgin trogolodytes dressed in shitstained boxers and cheeto-staned wifebeaters in their parents basement that need to feel superior because they failed at life. Believe me; we can smell our own (usually from miles away).
 

Pez68

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So apparently he hung himself. Man.
 

Variable

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I can't believe you guys let that moron troll you like that. This anger is probably the exact reaction he was looking for. Don't feed the trolls.


Doesn't really matter to me whether he was trolling or just looking to get a rise out of people or whatever. Because, to me, enough can't be said about how wrong that view of suicide is, no matter what his intention was. Yeah people could have said nothing, could have just shrugged him off, ignored him or even agreed with him, like too many people do when they hear somebody say that. And to the people who are struggling with depression/mental illness ( a lot of times quietly) who see that kind of non-reaction, all that does is re-inforce the idea that there is no help for them. That no one really cares enough to take them seriously. And that message is echoed throughout society.

It is one of, if not the biggest problem with addressing mental illness like others have said. And it affects a lot of people. Maybe even some on these boards, who knows. This is one of those situations where idiots can (unknowingly) do a lot of damage saying that sort of stupidity out loud. It's partially because of people like that which make people like Clint feel like there's no other options.

But when others speak out against it, like people have in this thread, maybe just maybe that helps to send the message that not everyone is a fucking tone deaf moron about this, that not everyone will judge you just because maybe they can't physically see the effects that sort of problem/illness has on you. That they will take you seriously if you go to them for help or to talk. That's worth it to get that message out. That's worth getting angry about. Again it's because of that stigma behind mental illness that we just don't know how many people are struggling with it and a lot of people are very good at masking it, at hiding it because of the sort of shitty, ignorant attitude people have shown towards it.
 

DewsSox79

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As I say to many of my friends who have been diagnosed with panic/anxiety disorder in the past (which I suffer from + OCD) and come to me as I'm open about it, you've got to work on yourself and realize things will get better. Your situation will be not be exactly like everyone else's so don't compare. Just take it one day at a time.


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I went through ERP for Pure O so I get what you go through. I have had it for over a decade and didn't know until diagnosed. I'm a successful businessman but still have this. Mental health in general is like working out physically. I've learned to now do both not just weights. I have no clue what Reif battled but once again a guy labeled as a great person where signs of trouble were hidden and kept to himself. I have lost a couple friends in my life to suicide and never saw it coming.


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Shantz My Pants

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I went through ERP for Pure O so I get what you go through. I have had it for over a decade and didn't know until diagnosed. I'm a successful businessman but still have this. Mental health in general is like working out physically. I've learned to now do both not just weights. I have no clue what Reif battled but once again a guy labeled as a great person where signs of trouble were hidden and kept to himself. I have lost a couple friends in my life to suicide and never saw it coming.


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I'm actually more Pure O than compulsion OCD. When I was younger I had the hand washing and checking compulsions, now it's more just in my head. I've found meds work best for me as well as just working through it but I would be a liar if I said i still don't have my days where I spend too much time worrying.


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DewsSox79

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I'm actually more Pure O than compulsion OCD. When I was younger I had the hand washing and checking compulsions, now it's more just in my head. I've found meds work best for me as well as just working through it but I would be a liar if I said i still don't have my days where I spend too much time worrying.


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remember though. ruminating and irrational worries and trying to figure things out are considered compulsions. you can still compulse without the visible compulsions like checking etc... im with ya. I have my days too. If you ever need anything shoot me a message.
 

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