Scherzer/Zimmerman

SilenceS · Jan 19, 2015

JimJohnson said:
Zimmerman & Russell >>>>>>>> Castro & Russell. Anyone who doesn't think so is a dumbass.

:enough:

JimJohnson · Jan 19, 2015

SilenceS said:
:enough:

You just don't get it pal. It's like I'm trying to teach a 5 year old Special person the ABC's.

SilenceS · Jan 19, 2015

JimJohnson said:
You just don't get it pal. It's like I'm trying to teach a 5 year old Special person the ABC's.

:-v

DewsSox79 · Jan 19, 2015

JimJohnson said:
Zimmerman & Russell >>>>>>>> Castro & Russell. Anyone who doesn't think so is a dumbass.

its this thing ya know...its called depth. we know castro is a good proven baseball player and russell is a spec. keeping both is not a bad thing. theres a chance that one of those (baez,russell) flop. Castro moves to 2b if baez doesnt produce or adjust and russell goes to ss.

also if you want zimmerman you wont give up proven mlb talent in castro. you move specs that are highly tauted and yet havent proved a thing at the mlb level.

so say you move castro you are eliminating a proven player for a SP who will be pitching in front of 2 proven players in the old montero and anthony rizzo. subtracting proven players with all the unknowns is pure stupidity.

you got russell for shark, flip russell for zimmerman and now the team is better.

these types of moves dont require the bill james handbook just logic. the logic you lack when you didnt want lester because of 1 playoff game.

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JimJohnson · Jan 19, 2015

DewsSox79 said:
you got russell for shark, flip russell for zimmerman and now the team is better.

these types of moves dont require the bill james handbook just logic. the logic you lack when you didnt want lester because of 1 playoff game.

LOL @ Washington trading Zimm for Russell straight up! LMAO dumbass

nickofypres · Jan 19, 2015

I really enjoy JimJohnson's hot baseball takes.

Parade_Rain · Jan 19, 2015

beckdawg said:
You can't really be scared of the boogie man. If you buy into that then Bryant's a no go, Jake Arrieta and Almora as well. Additionally, you don't make a trade for Zimmerman or Strasburg without the ground work for a contract extension in place so he's kind of moot to begin with.

Bryant and Almora aren't costing the team other players and they are under team control for a long time. The point is cost/years of control, big money. The point was not Boras alone. A trade for him is just fine. What you are willing to give up for him isn't.

CSF77 · Jan 19, 2015

Parade_Rain said:
I could post a book on your first several paragraphs, but I believe in the KISS principle. In regards to the bolded, I've already explained it to you. The Cubs need more pitching in MiLB. They will want waves, just like the position player prospects. They aren't going to be trading pitching away---at least those as promising as Edwards. It's that simple. If you want to trade for Strasburg find some position players.

Cubs have pushed up pitching each draft. Kane CO won with pitching. There are not big show names but there is quality upwelling.

The Cubs can use their depth of blue chip hitting to get back proven pitching. So having top rated pitching in the pipe is not really needed. There is more risk with developing pitching vs hitting due to arm injuries. That is why I agree with the strat that Theo has taken with the draft.

That said Stras vs Zimm. Tough question. Safer bet would be Zimmerman but age is a question looking forward. Stras IMO has not met his potential.

End of the day Zimm is a #2. Stras could be the next Verlander.

Parade_Rain · Jan 19, 2015

CSF77 said:
Cubs have pushed up pitching each draft. Kane CO won with pitching. There are not big show names but there is quality upwelling.

The Cubs can use their depth of blue chip hitting to get back proven pitching. So having top rated pitching in the pipe is not really needed. There is more risk with developing pitching vs hitting due to arm injuries. That is why I agree with the strat that Theo has taken with the draft.

That said Stras vs Zimm. Tough question. Safer bet would be Zimmerman but age is a question looking forward. Stras IMO has not met his potential.

End of the day Zimm is a #2. Stras could be the next Verlander.

So if the Cubs can use their "depth of blue chip hitting to get back proven pitching", they don't need to be sending Edwards along in a trade.

If the Cubs truly want to be like the Cardinals, they need to have solid replacements available at AAA. Your pitching prospects aren't even at high A. They need to keep arms for a bit longer.

TC in Mississippi · Jan 19, 2015

I can't see a deal being made for Zimmermann for several reasons; first would be $16.8 million dollar salary for 2015 which the Cubs seemingly don't have and second he'd be crazy not to test FA next year after seeing what Lester and Scherzer got so you're talking a rental in a year you're not a realistic World Series contender. Doesn't make sense. Now Strasburg is another story. He has two years left of control, just avoided arbitration by signing for $9.85 million and is likely to sign for a similar sum next year and would fit the Cubs reported desire to not have two $20 million plus pitchers on the roster at the same time (Peter Gammons wrote about this a month ago). The downside is that he would almost certainly cost Castro and a top 5 prospect and Castro and Strasburg's WAR numbers pretty much balance out so what have you gained unless Russell is farther along than is generally thought (June 2015). Bottom line is I don't think a deal for either is likely, but if something were to happen Strasburg makes a lot more sense.

JZsportsfan · Jan 19, 2015

If the Cubs can land either Zimmerman or Stasburg w/o giving up Bryant they should take the deal

TL1961 · Jan 19, 2015

Scherzer got $210 million. That's $40 million more than Lester. Lester looks like a bargain today!

chibears55 · Jan 19, 2015

TL1961 said:
Scherzer got $210 million. That's $40 million more than Lester. Lester looks like a bargain today!

They get relief for 7 yrs while he playing with 15 per but gonna suck owing a playing 15 per for 7 yrs after he done playing. .

TC in Mississippi · Jan 19, 2015

JZsportsfan said:
If the Cubs can land either Zimmerman or Stasburg w/o giving up Bryant they should take the deal

Zimmermann is a rental for one year and he becomes a FA. He's very unlikely to sign an extension. He also taxes the budget (nearly $17 million) in a year you realistically can't predict that you can win in. Not saying I wouldn't make a deal but Castro has to be off the table and the top prospects, Bryant, Baez, Russell, Schwarber and Almora have to be too. Strasburg has two years of control and maybe a team on the verge of a long competition window convinces him to stay before those two years are done. You're also talking a lot less of a budget hit (about $10 million per) over the two years. To me that might be worth Castro and/or some prospects.

TL1961 · Jan 19, 2015

chibears55 said:
They get relief for 7 yrs while he playing with 15 per but gonna suck owing a playing 15 per for 7 yrs after he done playing. .

Quite the opposite. By deferring, their cost is far less than if paid over 7 years.

While I posted that the deals are $40 million apart, due to Lester's accelerated $, and Scherzer's deferred $, the net cost to the Nats is about $10 million more than the cost of Lester to the Cubs.

TL1961 · Jan 19, 2015

TC in Mississippi said:
Zimmermann is a rental for one year and he becomes a FA. He's very unlikely to sign an extension. He also taxes the budget (nearly $17 million) in a year you realistically can't predict that you can win in. Not saying I wouldn't make a deal but Castro has to be off the table and the top prospects, Bryant, Baez, Russell, Schwarber and Almora have to be too. Strasburg has two years of control and maybe a team on the verge of a long competition window convinces him to stay before those two years are done. You're also talking a lot less of a budget hit (about $10 million per) over the two years. To me that might be worth Castro and/or some prospects.

Given how much Scherzer got by becoming a FA, I wouldn't gamble with Zimmerman that I can sign him to an extension. It seems going into free agency makes a huge difference, though next year there stand to be many more quality pitchers in FA than this offseason.

chibears55 · Jan 19, 2015

TL1961 said:
Quite the opposite. By deferring, their cost is far less than if paid over 7 years.

While I posted that the deals are $40 million apart, due to Lester's accelerated $, and Scherzer's deferred $, the net cost to the Nats is about $10 million more than the cost of Lester to the Cubs.

This is what i saw. .

@Ken_Rosenthal: Source: Scherzer deal with #Nationals is seven years, $210M with half deferred. He will receive $15M per year for 14 years.

brett05 · Jan 19, 2015

TL1961 said:
Quite the opposite. By deferring, their cost is far less than if paid over 7 years.

While I posted that the deals are $40 million apart, due to Lester's accelerated $, and Scherzer's deferred $, the net cost to the Nats is about $10 million more than the cost of Lester to the Cubs.

Makin the Max deal even better

brett05 · Jan 19, 2015

chibears55 said:
This is what i saw. .

@Ken_Rosenthal: Source: Scherzer deal with #Nationals is seven years, $210M with half deferred. He will receive $15M per year for 14 years.

What a deal if you have ownership that can cover the differed money

SilenceS · Jan 19, 2015

brett05 said:
What a deal if you have ownership that can cover the differed money

Yea, and he can throw his arm out tom. and be the worst contract next to Bobby Bonilla. Its a lot of money no matter which way you look at it.

Scherzer/Zimmerman

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