Pace Of Play And Increasing Offense

2323 · Jan 30, 2015

As most of you probably know, the new commissioner has expressed an interest considering changes to increase offense and pace of play. Games are getting longer but with offense on the decline.

But one thing Manfred explicitly mentioned was getting rid of shifts. This seems like a short sighted solution that doesn't address the real problem. It's essentially penalizing skilled hitters that can go the other way for the sake of one dimensional hitters. This is like everyone gets a trophy. Guys need to learn to go the other way.

Another issue with the offense is home runs have declined but the strike outs are still there. If you want offense to come back, you need to reconcile that there are no longer enough home runs being hit to justify the strike outs. Furthermore, saber metrics focuses so much on avoiding outs but the truth is a majority of at bats are going to result in outs. Yet with so many strike outs, they're vacuous--nothing is accomplished. Guys need to be able to play to the situation, again this involves hitting the other way. If a runner is on 2nd and a power hitter is at bat, being able to hit the other way is huge because pitchers often pitch away to avoid his power (right handed batters). It's an easy RBI provided the batter is skilled enough and not too stubborn to go the other way. This scenario also applies to hitting to the right side to move a runner from 2nd to 3rd. In general, there really seems to be a real dearth of this and bailing out guys for being too stubborn or lacking skill isn't the answer.

One other thought I have is that every time the pitcher executes a pick off throw, it should count as a ball. They shouldn't be allowed an infinite number of pick off throws. It really slows the game down and deprives it of action, which is what you get with a stolen base.

DewsSox79 · Jan 30, 2015

im confused. what is there really to troll?

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ChiSoxCity · Jan 30, 2015

Pace of play and increasing offense (Cubs fans only, ie not for trolls)

DewsSox79 said:
im confused. what is there really to troll?

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We have to use the drinking fountain for White Sox only.

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Icculus · Jan 30, 2015

2323 said:
As most of you probably know, the new commissioner has expressed an interest considering changes to increase offense and pace of play. Games are getting longer but with offense on the decline.

But one thing Manfred explicitly mentioned was getting rid of shifts. This seems like a short sighted solution that doesn't address the real problem. It's essentially penalizing skilled hitters that can go the other way for the sake of one dimensional hitters. This is like everyone gets a trophy. Guys need to learn to go the other way.

Another issue with the offense is home runs have declined but the strike outs are still there. If you want offense to come back, you need to reconcile that there are no longer enough home runs being hit to justify the strike outs. Furthermore, saber metrics focuses so much on avoiding outs but the truth is a majority of at bats are going to result in outs. Yet with so many strike outs, they're vacuous--nothing is accomplished. Guys need to be able to play to the situation, again this involves hitting the other way. If a runner is on 2nd and a power hitter is at bat, being able to hit the other way is huge because pitchers often pitch away to avoid his power (right handed batters). It's an easy RBI provided the batter is skilled enough and not too stubborn to go the other way. This scenario also applies to hitting to the right side to move a runner from 2nd to 3rd. In general, there really seems to be a real dearth of this and bailing out guys for being too stubborn or lacking skill isn't the answer.

One other thought I have is that every time the pitcher executes a pick off throw, it should count as a ball. They shouldn't be allowed an infinite number of pick off throws. It really slows the game down and deprives it of action, which is what you get with a stolen base.

The problem with strikeouts is you can't say 100% to totally avoid them or that they never hurt. I almost always tolerate K's if they're from a consistently 30+ HR hitter. It's kind of subjective and depends on the situation of the plate appearance. Outlawing shifts on the other hand is simply rearded.

2323 · Jan 30, 2015

Ziggy said:
The problem with strikeouts is you can't say 100% to totally avoid them or that they never hurt. I almost always tolerate K's if they're from a consistently 30+ HR hitter. It's kind of subjective and depends on the situation of the plate appearance. Outlawing shifts on the other hand is simply rearded.

Currently, the home runs are more or less in line with where they were in the 80s. There was a time when 100 strike outs set off alarms. People are numb to it now though. And like I was mentioning, there's also a lot of bad situational hitting.

Parade_Rain · Jan 30, 2015

I would consider limiting the number of pitching changes that can occur in a 9 inning game to 4, maybe 5 pitchers max and eliminate some of the LHP/RHB matchup for one batter pitcher nonsense. Only allow the pitcher to throw over to the bag twice for each batter when holding a runner on. Also drop the mound and make it flat.

DewsSox79 · Jan 30, 2015

im not sure about limiting throw overs. I think all these new ideas could be bad for the game. shot clock shit is dumb for sure. i think there should be a catcher visiting the pitcher limit. also the possible shift rule is just dumb too. its baseball...its not supposed to be over in an hour. from a financial standpoint shorter games means less concessions consumed times every team over a course of a season. maybe instead of these dumb rules they can get the replay system right and get the umps to not fold in the playoffs

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2323 · Jan 30, 2015

None of the ideas being discussed are as radical as the DH rule and probably not lowering the mound. Baseball has had a lot of rule changes over the years and some have been pretty drastic. And saying it's not supposed to be an hour is dumb. The games are getting longer but with less action. And I'm not positive but I think a time limit between pitches might already exist. It's just not enforced.

Regardless, longer durations and less action are a huge problem. It's really not enjoyable in any way to watch some fat fuck with a strong arm throw over to first an infinite number of times to keep some fast athletic guy from initiating action by running. The game needs more action, not less. And throwing over to first should cost you something--that something should be a called ball at the plate.

It's also not exactly entertaining seeing the game be over managed.

I didn't like Theo's idea at first but it's growing on me.

brett05 · Jan 31, 2015

2323 said:
One other thought I have is that every time the pitcher executes a pick off throw, it should count as a ball. They shouldn't be allowed an infinite number of pick off throws. It really slows the game down and deprives it of action, which is what you get with a stolen base.

Bad idea. With pickoffs being penalized all but the very slowest will be safe at second on hits and walks

chibears55 · Jan 31, 2015

best way to speed up the game besides stop having the batter adjust his crotch and gloves after every pitch and the pitcher scratching his ass and walking around the mound after every pitch is limiting the time between half innings...

we don't need 5 minutes worth of commercials or advertisements between half innings.. think about it , that over an hour worth of non baseball action every game

put a time limit to like 3 mins between half innings to get started

as far as replay goes, they need to stop the managers from walking out there wasting time to see if they should review it or not..
once they step out of the dug out that should count as a replay review against them..

2323 · Jan 31, 2015

brett05 said:
Bad idea. With pickoffs being penalized all but the very slowest will be safe at second on hits and walks

This makes no sense.

2323 · Jan 31, 2015

U

chibears55 said:
best way to speed up the game besides stop having the batter adjust his crotch and gloves after every pitch and the pitcher scratching his ass and walking around the mound after every pitch is limiting the time between half innings...

we don't need 5 minutes worth of commercials or advertisements between half innings.. think about it , that over an hour worth of non baseball action every game

put a time limit to like 3 mins between half innings to get started

as far as replay goes, they need to stop the managers from walking out there wasting time to see if they should review it or not..
once they step out of the dug out that should count as a replay review against them..

Do you really think they'll give up commercial time? The recent prosperity of MLB is driven largely through TV money. What do you think makes that work? That's like saying they should go back to 154 games.

Parade_Rain · Jan 31, 2015

brett05 said:
Bad idea. With pickoffs being penalized all but the very slowest will be safe at second on hits and walks

There are multiple ways for pitchers to help the catcher out that do not involve throwing over to 1B. Limiting the throws over would actually make them use their heads a bit more. Any dumb clod can throw over to first forever.

Parade_Rain · Jan 31, 2015

chibears55 said:
best way to speed up the game besides stop having the batter adjust his crotch and gloves after every pitch and the pitcher scratching his ass and walking around the mound after every pitch is limiting the time between half innings...

we don't need 5 minutes worth of commercials or advertisements between half innings.. think about it , that over an hour worth of non baseball action every game

put a time limit to like 3 mins between half innings to get started

That advertising pays for the players salaries. That isn't likely to happen. Secondly, it's the action between pitches, etc. that make the game slower to the viewer. Getting rid of advertisements doesn't solve the correct problem.

chibears55 said:
as far as replay goes, they need to stop the managers from walking out there wasting time to see if they should review it or not..
once they step out of the dug out that should count as a replay review against them..

The managers would just waste time arguing the call then. This process is great. There are no bases being picked up and thrown all over the field.

2323 · Jan 31, 2015

Parade_Rain said:
There are multiple ways for pitchers to help the catcher out that do not involve throwing over to 1B. Limiting the throws over would actually make them use their heads a bit more. Any dumb clod can throw over to first forever.

Yes. Either work on a pick off move or use one as a set up then deliver on the nextone. Don't rely on absolute mind numbing tedium to keep a guy on first. If the pitcher throws over a 4th time (or less, depending on if actual pitches have been called a ball), it's ball four so it's not necessary to run. The more a pitcher throws over, the incentive to run is somewhat diminished as a base on balls is on the verge of happening.

And let's say a pitcher throws over 3 times in a row. They need to make the runner wait until the pitcher toes the rubber to go, unless there was some error before he toes the rubber. And if after three pickoffs (yielding an 0-3 count), the 4th pickoff throw would potentially count as both ball 4 but if he successfully picks off the runner, there's also an out. So the effect would be swapping runners.

If anyone thinks this is too nuanced, they should check out the infield fly rule and dropped third strikes.

Parade_Rain · Jan 31, 2015

What a pitcher can do on the rubber is a lot more than that. They can vary their delivery time to the plate, slide step, etc. It isn't just about throwing over to 1B and delivering.

2323 · Jan 31, 2015

Parade_Rain said:
What a pitcher can do on the rubber is a lot more than that. They can vary their delivery time to the plate, slide step, etc. It isn't just about throwing over to 1B and delivering.

This is true. I didn't mention it because it doesn't bring the game to a crawl like infinite throws over to first. But it's more than fair to point this out.

I think this rule entice bigger leads, since they know there aren't endless throws over to first. The base runner would want them to waste pitches on throws over to first. As it is now, there's little to no action. Guys often don't even have big leads (because they know the tedium that will result) but the pitchers still throw over to first a lot. It seems like they want to avoid pitching to the plate and pickoff throws are a convenient way for pitchers to gather themselves. It's kind of a pitchers equivalent of stepping out of the batters box at times, except it's much worse. But I think this would make things more interesting in terms of the interplay between the base runners and the pitcher/catcher.

There's just too much dead time as is, and for what?

chibears55 · Jan 31, 2015

Do you really think they'll give up commercial time? The recent prosperity of MLB is driven largely through TV money. What do you think makes that work? That's like saying they should go back to 154 games

That advertising pays for the players salaries. That isn't likely to happen. Secondly, it's the action between pitches, etc. that make the game slower to the viewer. Getting rid of advertisements doesn't solve the correct problem.

I gave my opinion on what I felt it would take to speed the game up.. thank you

do I think they would seriously do it ? no

but one can argue that this has been the biggest reason over the years as to why games are taking longer to complete..
commissioner and owners shouldn't complain about long games unless their willing to shorten in between innings by cutting an advertisement or two..

all the other extra stuff that goes on with the batters and pitchers before every pitch....
I agree it needs to stop and the only way that stops is by making the umpires enforce a time rule and making hitters get in box and pitchers get on mound quicker between pitches otherwise a ball or strike will be called.. it will shorten the games but not by much..

if they really want to shorten time, they need to shorten the between innings stuff..

The managers would just waste time arguing the call then. This process is great. There are no bases being picked up and thrown all over the field.

I actually enjoyed that part of the game...

I like the replay part of it but really don't care for managers being able to walk onto the field just to waste time to see if they should challenge or not..
it shouldn't take that long for someone to see the play or replay and alert manager to challenge or not...
something needs to be done to speed that process up

2323 · Jan 31, 2015

chibears55 said:
I gave my opinion on what I felt it would take to speed the game up.. thank you

do I think they would seriously do it ? no

but one can argue that this has been the biggest reason over the years as to why games are taking longer to complete..
commissioner and owners shouldn't complain about long games unless their willing to shorten in between innings by cutting an advertisement or two..

all the other extra stuff that goes on with the batters and pitchers before every pitch....
I agree it needs to stop and the only way that stops is by making the umpires enforce a time rule and making hitters get in box and pitchers get on mound quicker between pitches otherwise a ball or strike will be called.. it will shorten the games but not by much..

if they really want to shorten time, they need to shorten the between innings stuff..

I actually enjoyed that part of the game...

I like the replay part of it but really don't care for managers being able to walk onto the field just to waste time to see if they should challenge or not..
it shouldn't take that long for someone to see the play or replay and alert manager to challenge or not...
something needs to be done to speed that process up

Baseballs biggest problem is the dead time or how the game is allowed to come to a crawl once the commercials are over.

chibears55 · Jan 31, 2015

2323 said:
Baseballs biggest problem is the dead time or how the game is allowed to come to a crawl once the commercials are over.

Which the commissioner needs to get on the umps to enforce the rules that already in place..

[The most obvious way to improve the pace of games without making any sweeping changes to in-game strategy would be to enforce a rule that already exists:*Rule 8.04 in Major League Baseball’s rulebook says, “When the bases are unoccupied, the pitcher shall deliver the ball to the batter within 12 seconds after he receives the ball. Each time the pitcher delays the game by violating this rule, the umpire shall call “Ball.””

And batters, too, could be held responsible for excessive time spent out of the batter’s box adjusting their gear. The league has the*right to crack down on that under Rule 6.02.]

I saw where between innings average close to 1 hr 30 mins per 9 inning game.. cant find it now to confirm it..
That half the average game time right there. .......

Again im not saying they will shorten this and take money out of their pockets but this is a big reason games are longer ..
Along with the other crap

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