#42 is Shedding a Tear Right Now:(

The Hawk

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Just read the story about the Jackie Robinson team cheating to win the US Little League Title. It really pisses me off in a lot of ways. By way of background, I was a high school and travel league baseball coach for a number of years. I have had kids go through me and my teams on to many colleges, pros and on to the major leagues. I have taken several teams of 15-17 year olds onto Regional and World Series Final games. I'm also not holier than thou nor do I think that honest mistakes cannot be made.

What I have just read about that Little League Organization was enough to make me want to beat someone up. ANd what I have read about what some of the reactions were to it by the so-called "leaders" of the community that surrounded it makes me even madder. As bad as the damn world is outside these kids world, now even a damned game of baseball cannot occur without cheating another group of people?

What that organization did was overt. No mistakes. They knew exactly what they were doing. SOme coach decided that his pitching wasn't good enough so he recruited a kid from two towns over to add to his team. Another town had an outfielder who had sprinter speed came over. A short-stop. et al. All overtly against the rules. Cheating the other teams who followed the rules along the way. And along their merry way, this cheating team were made to be celebrities. TV people were delirious because of the story and how it fit their desired narrative. WOnder what they knew and when they knew it?

This should not be a black versus white story BTW. It should be a right against wrong story. It should not have race anywhere to do with it but race will be all over it. Already that jag-off Jesse Jr. is demanding that the LV team refuse to accept the award and the Chicago mayor refuses to be a stand up mayor but instead a willing shill. I can imagine Sharpton is going to start chirping from his pulpit also.

It sickens me. It really does. A few years ago, I remember coaching a game outside of the Rose Bowl out here at Jackie Robinson Field, the home field of Pasadena City College where Robinson played as a high school kid. I had two black kids on my team and I took time out before the game to tell them what I knew about Jackie Robinson. THEY DID NOT KNOW A THING ABOUT JACKIE ROBSINSON!!!!!

I had to get this shit off of my chest. I am sorry for the kids on that team for a number of reasons but someone also should be counseling them on what really happened and why it happened and not merely talking to them about how they got screwed by the "man". That, unfortunately will probably be the narrative delivered!
 

ChiSoxCity

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They didn't know a thing about Jackie Robinson because black history, or any non-white history for that matter, is not taught in this country. They do a good job of white washing history in this country, but that's a subject for another thread.

Not to make excuses, because what those coaches did is wrong. But this stuff happens all the time in little league and high school. Taking that accomplishment away because a kid lived in the next town is stupid.


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They didn't know a thing about Jackie Robinson because black history, or any non-white history for that matter, is not taught in this country. They do a good job of white washing history in this country, but that's a subject for another thread.

Not to make excuses, because what those coaches did is wrong. But this stuff happens all the time in little league and high school. Taking that accomplishment away because a kid lived in the next town is stupid.


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I disagree. Cheating does exist but there are hundreds of good people involved in not just baseball but other sports that try their asses off to make things fair. I happen to one of them and know many man others personally. ANd I also have run into along the way other clubs who got caught cheating along the way by running in players from not just a neighboring town but across an entire state (texas) before their team got caught. Mickey Mantle WOrld Series.

ANd don't get me wrong. I am not pissed off and pointing at a team that was black. That team I mentioned above was a white team from a rich area. In fact, in my experience, most of the teams or towns that cheat are in rich areas. THe bottom line is that people get greedy and parents are the worst of it. They want and will almost do anything for their kids to win. Then throw scholoarship possibilities into the mix. You go to these tournaments and college and pro scouts are out there. It is big business.

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Yes, but they aren't scouting at 12 years old in baseball. At least not yet. Too much difference between 60' and 90' base paths. It's amazing looking back, how many coaches brought in ringers and over-aged players to 12U tournaments just to win a few games.

Agreed. The HS age tournaments are big business. Perhaps we have more in common than you think you know. Hawk.
 

ChiSoxCity

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I disagree. Cheating does exist but there are hundreds of good people involved in not just baseball but other sports that try their asses off to make things fair. I happen to one of them and know many man others personally. ANd I also have run into along the way other clubs who got caught cheating along the way by running in players from not just a neighboring town but across an entire state (texas) before their team got caught. Mickey Mantle WOrld Series.

ANd don't get me wrong. I am not pissed off and pointing at a team that was black. That team I mentioned above was a white team from a rich area. In fact, in my experience, most of the teams or towns that cheat are in rich areas. THe bottom line is that people get greedy and parents are the worst of it. They want and will almost do anything for their kids to win. Then throw scholoarship possibilities into the mix. You go to these tournaments and college and pro scouts are out there. It is big business.

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[/QUOTE]

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said.


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Well look at the bright side...there is another coach looking for work that can replace Robin.
 

hyatt151

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Just read the story about the Jackie Robinson team cheating to win the US Little League Title. It really pisses me off in a lot of ways. By way of background, I was a high school and travel league baseball coach for a number of years. I have had kids go through me and my teams on to many colleges, pros and on to the major leagues. I have taken several teams of 15-17 year olds onto Regional and World Series Final games. I'm also not holier than thou nor do I think that honest mistakes cannot be made.

What I have just read about that Little League Organization was enough to make me want to beat someone up. ANd what I have read about what some of the reactions were to it by the so-called "leaders" of the community that surrounded it makes me even madder. As bad as the damn world is outside these kids world, now even a damned game of baseball cannot occur without cheating another group of people?

What that organization did was overt. No mistakes. They knew exactly what they were doing. SOme coach decided that his pitching wasn't good enough so he recruited a kid from two towns over to add to his team. Another town had an outfielder who had sprinter speed came over. A short-stop. et al. All overtly against the rules. Cheating the other teams who followed the rules along the way. And along their merry way, this cheating team were made to be celebrities. TV people were delirious because of the story and how it fit their desired narrative. WOnder what they knew and when they knew it?

This should not be a black versus white story BTW. It should be a right against wrong story. It should not have race anywhere to do with it but race will be all over it. Already that jag-off Jesse Jr. is demanding that the LV team refuse to accept the award and the Chicago mayor refuses to be a stand up mayor but instead a willing shill. I can imagine Sharpton is going to start chirping from his pulpit also.

It sickens me. It really does. A few years ago, I remember coaching a game outside of the Rose Bowl out here at Jackie Robinson Field, the home field of Pasadena City College where Robinson played as a high school kid. I had two black kids on my team and I took time out before the game to tell them what I knew about Jackie Robinson. THEY DID NOT KNOW A THING ABOUT JACKIE ROBSINSON!!!!!

I had to get this shit off of my chest. I am sorry for the kids on that team for a number of reasons but someone also should be counseling them on what really happened and why it happened and not merely talking to them about how they got screwed by the "man". That, unfortunately will probably be the narrative delivered!




Shut up Buttermaker!! :smug2:
 

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They didn't know a thing about Jackie Robinson because black history, or any non-white history for that matter, is not taught in this country. They do a good job of white washing history in this country, but that's a subject for another thread.

Not to make excuses, because what those coaches did is wrong. But this stuff happens all the time in little league and high school. Taking that accomplishment away because a kid lived in the next town is stupid.


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LOL black history isn't taught in this country?? First off, you sound dumb because we are in black history month. Which should just be apart of american history instead of alienating itself; but that's another argument

Now we white wash black history because they didn't know who Jackie Robinson was? Just wow. Is it white washed because john brown is one of the ultimate badasses during the anti slavery moment and be was white n I think is talked about with black history?

Just sayin
 

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You really can tell can't you when all of the jerk-offs come out at once as in Sharpton, Pfleger, Jackson Jr., and now Williams that someone lied or cheated? Wonder what new tee- shirts they all will be sporting?

The crowning joke that is in all of this is Jackson Jr. telling the President of the LV Little League that they should not accept the award because .........wait for it......... THEY DIDN'T DESERVE IT!!!!!! Yeah, Jesse.... crank out all of those lawyers. Be sure and get in front of all of those cameras before Sharpton beats you to them.....

As for Williams, I don't think that Reiny should be too happy about what he said. His speech in front of a bunch of young people that was supposed to have a sportsmanship theme to it, was far from such. HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. That was apparent. HE made assumptions about what happened and shot his stupid mouth off. THere was a lot of good and still is that could come from black community leadership about this matter and it didn't. ONCE AGAIN.

Instead the young affected by this and who watched this go down really are left with a very bad message or messages directed to them by their so-called "leaders". Pathetic.
 

ChiSoxCity

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LOL black history isn't taught in this country?? First off, you sound dumb because we are in black history month. Which should just be apart of american history instead of alienating itself; but that's another argument

Now we white wash black history because they didn't know who Jackie Robinson was? Just wow. Is it white washed because john brown is one of the ultimate badasses during the anti slavery moment and be was white n I think is talked about with black history?

Just sayin

Really?

Black history month means what, exactly? What black history did you learn in school? How about Asian American or latino American history? The only black American history I know, I learned on my own from reading books and research on wiki. Even in college, all the history classes are focused primarily on white culture and cultures that influenced Europe. We're taught a little about Egypt and Mesopotamia because of their influence on Christianity, law and philosophy in Europe. Nothing about the Nubians or other ancient African nations, and very little about China or India.

Most Americans wouldn't know anything about black American history if it didn't come from a Hollywood movie.


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The Hawk

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The truth is that history really isn't taught worth a crap anymore and virtually no civics. THe young people in this country, all of them have no damn clue about what its history is nor do they care about it. They do not know how the government is organized and is supposed to work. They are functional illiterates. ANd I am talking about my own kids(3) also. It really pisses me off.
 

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Really?

Black history month means what, exactly? What black history did you learn in school? How about Asian American or latino American history? The only black American history I know, I learned on my own from reading books and research on wiki. Even in college, all the history classes are focused primarily on white culture and cultures that influenced Europe. We're taught a little about Egypt and Mesopotamia because of their influence on Christianity, law and philosophy in Europe. Nothing about the Nubians or other ancient African nations, and very little about China or India.

Most Americans wouldn't know anything about black American history if it didn't come from a Hollywood movie.


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I agree with you quite a bit. But it is way beyond just that. Too many people refuse to see the value of understanding what happened in the past and why it happened. And this goes way beyond a particular culture or group of people. The schools would rather spend time on social issues, pseudo scientific discourse, and political science. The net has become the crutch and solve-all for everything. FOrget about problem solving, scientific theory, even basic sentence organization and speech.

In short, we are going bass ackwards as a culture looking for someone else to take care of us and looking for someone else to solve all of our everyday problems. It is sad,.
 

ChiSoxCity

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The truth is that history really isn't taught worth a crap anymore and virtually no civics. THe young people in this country, all of them have no damn clue about what its history is nor do they care about it. They do not know how the government is organized and is supposed to work. They are functional illiterates. ANd I am talking about my own kids(3) also. It really pisses me off.

What you say is very true, but the history that is taught is overwhelmingly Euro centric. Nice attempt to change the context to a general one though. Why are so many white people uncomfortable with the truth? You'd rather lie or ignore it than acknowledge it. You seemed to be shocked that some young black kids did not know who Jackie Robinson is, and I told you why they didn't know: the contributions of black people aren't acknowledged in America because the powers that be don't want to lose control of the narrative on race and stereotypes. They don't want you to know that the first successful open heart surgery was performed by a black American doctor. They do want you to see black men dunking a basketball or getting assaulted and killed by police on tv. Perception is a powerful thing.


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ChiSoxCity

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I agree with you quite a bit. But it is way beyond just that. Too many people refuse to see the value of understanding what happened in the past and why it happened. And this goes way beyond a particular culture or group of people. The schools would rather spend time on social issues, pseudo scientific discourse, and political science. The net has become the crutch and solve-all for everything. FOrget about problem solving, scientific theory, even basic sentence organization and speech.

In short, we are going bass ackwards as a culture looking for someone else to take care of us and looking for someone else to solve all of our everyday problems. It is sad,.

You seem to think young people are ignoring history by choice. I am saying that history has been whitewashed and used to manipulate and brainwash people for generations in this country. Successful black people in America have always been considered a threat, and any mention of their accomplishments have always been met with scorn, historically. In short, the powers that be don't want you to know the truth.


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The Hawk

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You seem to think young people are ignoring history by choice. I am saying that history has been whitewashed and used to manipulate and brainwash people for generations in this country. Successful black people in America have always been considered a threat, and any mention of their accomplishments have always been met with scorn, historically. In short, the powers that be don't want you to know the truth.


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I do not believe any of that. Do you think that a black kid ignores history because there aren't any lessons about George washington Carver, Colin Powell, and others. Why? I think that this same kid gives a rats ass about George Washington or Ulyssis S. Grant. They are just kids. ANd there are a lot more young people than just black people. And they pretty much think the same relative to history. They think it is boring. Believe it or not, I've coached a hell of a lot of black and hispanic kids in my years and all those kids pretty much think the same way. They want to have fun and they like money. Getting a kid to work for what he wants is another thing and goes way beyond race.

Thats the way I've always approached young people anyway. They are all the same and I treat them all the same. Some liked me, some didn't. Some parents liked me. Some didn't. Some I liked. Some I didn't. That is just life. But when people start putting a higher value on the pigment of either their or someone else's skin, then that is where trouble happens. Big trouble. And it is too damn bad that people do not think through things when they do it.
 

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I do not believe any of that. Do you think that a black kid ignores history because there aren't any lessons about George washington Carver, Colin Powell, and others. Why? I think that this same kid gives a rats ass about George Washington or Ulyssis S. Grant. They are just kids. ANd there are a lot more young people than just black people. And they pretty much think the same relative to history. They think it is boring. Believe it or not, I've coached a hell of a lot of black and hispanic kids in my years and all those kids pretty much think the same way. They want to have fun and they like money. Getting a kid to work for what he wants is another thing and goes way beyond race.

Thats the way I've always approached young people anyway. They are all the same and I treat them all the same. Some liked me, some didn't. Some parents liked me. Some didn't. Some I liked. Some I didn't. That is just life. But when people start putting a higher value on the pigment of either their or someone else's skin, then that is where trouble happens. Big trouble. And it is too damn bad that people do not think through things when they do it.

This entire post is ridiculous. You made an issue out of some black kids not knowing their own history. I gave you the reason why this is the case, and now you try to pretend racial issues don't exist. Most of what kids are taught in school these days is crap anyway. And yes, all of it ihss been whitewashed.


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This entire post is ridiculous. You made an issue out of some black kids not knowing their own history. I gave you the reason why this is the case, and now you try to pretend racial issues don't exist. Most of what kids are taught in school these days is crap anyway. And yes, all of it ihss been whitewashed.


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:wacko::shot::facepalm::nope::X:smh::eek::jawdrop::crazydance::speechless::howdid::oprah::kermit::office::aj::enough::fuckthis:
 

Bear Pride

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By way of background, I was a high school and travel league baseball coach for a number of years. I have had kids go through me and my teams on to many colleges, pros and on to the major leagues. I have taken several teams of 15-17 year olds onto Regional and World Series Final games.

That team I mentioned above was a white team from a rich area. In fact, in my experience, most of the teams or towns that cheat are in rich areas. THe bottom line is that people get greedy and parents are the worst of it. They want and will almost do anything for their kids to win. Then throw scholoarship possibilities into the mix. You go to these tournaments and college and pro scouts are out there. It is big business.

There are always other ways to look at things. Let's not forget that one of the players on the JRW team didn't even have a home. I'm curious as to who were the biggest individuals that pushed for JRW to be stripped of their title? :dunno:

---------------------------------------------------------

Andrew McCutchen

Senior Editor - The Players' Tribune

A bunch of 12-year-old kids had their hearts broken this week. Jackie Robinson West, a team from Chicago’s South Side, won the U.S. title at the 2014 Little League World Series. They achieved their dream in dramatic fashion.

I remember watching their pitcher give up the go-ahead homer against Nevada in the title game and he was so crushed that he physically doubled-over on the mound. His team fought back and won in an amazing game, and the joy on that kid’s face after the final out was something that made even me jealous.

During the celebration, the cameras cut to a gym on Chicago’s South Side where people were gathered to watch, and they were going crazy supporting these kids and their community. It felt so good to see that the game I love still matters in the inner-city.

Then on Wednesday, Jackie Robinson West was stripped of its title for using players who lived “outside the geographical area.” There’s been a lot of the debate about what happened here, but one thing is clear to me. The incident shined a light on a very complicated issue.

Baseball used to be the sport where all you needed was a stick and a ball. It used to be a way out for poor kids. Now it’s a sport that increasingly freezes out kids whose parents don’t have the income to finance the travel baseball circuit.

I grew up in Fort Meade, Florida. Our town had literally one stoplight. It didn’t even have a McDonald’s until a few years ago. But we did have a baseball field and a football field. I spent most of my days in the dirt, having fun.

From the time I first stepped up in front of a tee-ball stand, I was trying to waggle my bat just like Ken Griffey Jr. Honestly, I was kind of a natural. My grandad used to come out to the field with a big camcorder and tape my tee-ball games.

I used to think him and my dad were lying about how good I was back then, but I stumbled upon the tapes a few years ago and I was crushing balls off the walls and running around the bases like crazy. I was good.

But the thing is, nobody outside of Fort Meade knew who I was, even when I was 12 years old, the same age as those kids playing in the Little League World Series. When you’re a kid from a low-income family who has talent, how do you get recognized?

Now, you have to pay thousands of dollars for the chance to be noticed in showcase tournaments in big cities. My parents loved me, but they had to work hard to put food on the table, and there wasn’t much left over.

They didn’t have the option of skipping a shift to take me to a tournament over the weekend. The hard choices started when I was very young. “Do you want that video game system for Christmas, or do you want a new baseball bat?”

A lot of talented kids my age probably picked the Playstation, and that was it. It was over for them. I always chose the new bat or glove. But all the scraping and saving in the world wasn’t going to be enough for my family to send me an hour north to Lakeland every weekend to play against the best competition.

That’s the challenge for families today. It’s not about the $100 bat. It’s about the $100-a-night motel room and the $30 gas money and the $300 tournament fee. There’s a huge financing gap to get a child to that next level where they might be seen.

Thankfully, an AAU coach by the name of Jimmy Rutland noticed me during an All-Star game when I was 13-years-old and asked my father if I’d ever been on a travel team. At that point, I had barely left the county. My dad told him that it was just too expensive, and coach Rutland basically took me in as if I was another one of his sons.

He helped pay for my jerseys and living expenses. My parents took care of what they could, which was basically just money for food.

But this wasn’t a Disney movie ending. It wasn’t like Jimmy noticed me and I went straight to the top. That was just the first step. There were so many things that had to happen for me to get to where I got.

If you’re a poor kid with raw ability, it’s not enough. You need to be blessed with many mentors to step in and help you. Kim Cherry, Michael Scott — I could list so many names of people who took me in and treated me as if I was their own son.

When people talk about the Jackie Robinson West team and blame the adults who took in kids from outside the boundaries that the Little League organization set, remember that those adults may be saviors to those kids. They’re the ones buying them shoes when they need it or an extra protein drink after the game.

Sometimes I wasn’t even sure how the scouts or AAU coaches found me. It seemed like a miracle. I kept clawing my way up the ladder to better and better teams, kind of like a mercenary. I remember I was playing for the Lakeland Road Runners and we got whooped by the Orlando Red Raiders.

They were like professionals to us. After the game, their coach came up to me and asked if I’d want to play on his team. The Red Raiders were big, man. It felt like I had just made the New York Yankees. I remember looking at my buddies on the Road Runners and shrugging, like, “Well, see ya!”

And you know what’s crazy? Even despite all the breaks I got with baseball, I probably wouldn’t be a Major League player right now if I didn’t tear my ACL when I was 15. I thought I was going to play college football. Why? Economics. If I could’ve been a wide receiver for a D-I school, I would have chosen that path because of the promise of a full scholarship.

The University of Florida offered me a baseball scholarship, but it only covered 70 percent of the tuition. My family simply couldn’t afford the other 30 percent. The fact is, no matter how good you are, you’re not getting a full ride in baseball.

Many low-income kids don’t have the option of going to college to develop their game and get an education. They have to roll the dice by entering the MLB draft. I had the good fortune to be drafted by the Pirates in the first round, but I spent four years in the glamorous towns of Williamsport, Hickory, Altoona and Indianapolis.

A lot of talented kids look at that lifestyle and compare it to the bright lights of Florida State or Ohio State, and they think, “Okay, I could get a free college education and be on ESPN, or I could spend five years eating cereal for dinner and trying to hit a 90-mile-per-hour fastball in Altoona.” ............
 

The Hawk

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Thanks for your personal story. THere are things being done, though, right now that try to bring inner city kids back into baseball. I know the Sox and out here the Angels and the Dodgers have partnered with communities to build quality youth ball parks and facilities so that the inner city youth can learn the game from quality coaches who volunteer their time. They even have leagues for all age groups. This is outside the official little league programs that are around. THe thing that has prevented black and Hispanics from playing baseball as youths quite a bit is the SPACE that it takes to do it. It is one thing to have an empty inner city parking lot and throwing a hoop out on it than it is to have a field of grass and dirt that measure 290/330/290 across the outfield, grow grass, put fences up, have room for stands and cars, etc. Space is hard to come by in a crowded urban enviornment.

THe important thing to me is that it is important to provide all youth a chance to compete fairly and safely in a fair enviornment. WHere things go beyond that, is another matter. I've always felt that if a kid has excellent talent and can exhibit it in a clear manner as in a good competitive league, he(or she) will get recognized and most likely be able to advance to higher and higher levels. Luck does play a big part in it also. It has always been that way, even when I started back in the dark ages back in Chicago when I played against McClain and his boys at Mt. Carmel.

I do disagree with you about talented youth not being able to play a sport in college because of money, though. Money is available to them beyond what the school can give them in terms of financial aid. There is a ton of no interest money available, community money, private grant money, etc. You just need to look for it and keep putting through applications. Soemtimes, also, you need to work through the JC college system also either and then branch to a 4 year school. Division 3 schools have some awesome baseball programs which will give a kid financial aid as a way of getting D1 talent into their programs. ANd their atheltes do get drafted into the pros out of these programs.

It is simple why baseball doesn't give out the financial aid that football and to some extent basketball does. It is because they do not draw revenue from the sport like the other two do. And since Title 9 occurred, for each maale scholarship athlete in the school, there has to be a corresponding female athlete on scholarship. Soccer is in the same boat as baseball in terms of an excellent athelte getting financial aid in college. The money is simply not there. YOu have to work in order to ferret it out.
 

The Hawk

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Just noticed that the article that was copied to the board was written by McCutcheon who happens to be one of my favorite current players to watch. I thought it was writen by a reader of this board. IT was a very interesting statement by him.
 

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