2015 pitchers to date

Phillies won't take on the baggage that the Cubs have, even with Russell.

They are going to want Russell, Schwarber, and some minor league pitching like Johnson and Underwood as a package. I can't see it getting much cheaper than that, and frankly, I tell the Phillies to go choke on Hamels.

There will be team out there with demands less than that, without the enormous contract tied to said player. I am not giving up that much cost control for four to five years of Hamels, when I can spend 6 more million a year, and get a Zimmerman or Cueto (who are younger) without losing all of the prospects. There will be teams who are out of it at the break, and willing to deal pitchers who they are going to lose, or want to get out of a contract. That is when the Cubs should pounce.

Unless the price goes down (which it could), I would let someone else give in to the demands that they want. There is no need for the Cubs to take two steps back in this when they are headed in the right direction, regardless of what Hamels could do for the short term.

CSF77 said:

I agree with that. The have said they were in a 16 month window.

But lets look at what they did.
They targeted Lester and got him.
They saw that they needed to get on board with pitch framing and 2 of the best guys in the league.
They knew that the pen was still young. They got Motte.
They needed more OBA at the top. They traded for Fowler.

To be honest here they did set goals and achieved them. I have no doubt that they will continue to make improvements as the season moves on.

There are many questions going on but they will be answered while the season is in play. Just gauging it yes they need another TOR. Hammel is not a #3. He should not be in a 5 game series. 7 game yes. Arrieta needs to prove he is durable. His stuff is legit. Hendricks needs to prove that he is legit. He is my pick to bust here.

I was musing this today:

Would you trade Wood, Jackson and Russell for Cole Hamels? Would the brass do it? Would the Phills do that deal?

Bosox tried to push proven talent but Philly wants a blue chip. So thinking over the Cubs needs. They need a TOR and they need to get rid of both Jackson and Wood.
The do not need Russell. They really do not with Bryant at 3B/ Castro at SS and Baez at 2B. All they would be doing is bumping one out anyways. What the do not have is a impact arm in the system. At best they have what other teams have in general in pitching. But no clear cut ace type in the making. Edwards included.

So in view of this I would trade Russell. Cole has control tied to him and he is at least equal to Lester. Having 2 top LH SP in the league on the staff means more than having a top 10 prospect that plays a position that they are already committed to long term.

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I wouldn't consider trading Russell until I see him in the big leagues. Baez I would probably trade now, not for the reasons that so many would, but because of the glut of infielders in the system and the fact that as far as 2B and SS go Castro is and Russell projects to be better OBP guys and while you'd miss out on Baez' power they still have Bryant, Rizzo, Schwarber and Soler for that not to mention that Russell and Castro both have decent power. I also don't think Philly, specifically Amaro, takes that deal.

Amaro is in a tough spot, he made a serious mistake last year by not trading Hamels for a package of very good prospects to start rebuilding his terrible system. He was going for a quick fix and it wasn't there. Now he has no choice but to stay on that path. If he makes a bad deal he's fired, if he makes no deal he's fired before long so he's banking on a paradigm change that will get him the deal. Honestly I'd do the same thing in his position. Let's say the Dodgers get off to a fast start and everything is clicking but Kershaw goes down to for the year, now all of a sudden the deal the deal Philly offered, Hamels for Corey Seager, Chris Reed and Julian Leon doesn't sound so bad. Boston is another option if they start hot but it's clear the pitching can't sustain, they certainly have the prospects and Blake Swihart and Xander Bogaerts may not be so untouchable at that point. What I don't see is the Cubs getting into that desperation mode. The Dodgers and Red Sox both have enormous payrolls and need results fast, the Cubs are at the beginning of a window and don't need to make a move like that. Right now the estimated price for Hamels from Chicago would be something like Russell, Schwarber or Soler and C.J. Edwards and I wouldn't make that deal in a million years. Again though I don't blame Amaro for holding out for it. The Cubs will not pry Hamels away from Amaro but I also think that barring his miracle scanario Amaro will be fired by the deadline and his successor will be left to trade Hamels. At that point a long term rebuild will be more likely for them and you could send a riskier, but very rewarding package, to Philly. I just think for now pitching can't be a priority until you see what you have.

Fair enough on both.

I agree about Baez, but it's hard to do that when Russell has no MLB AB's yet. Also, while Baez power could be missed, as mentioned, Russell would have better OBP. I'm curious as to what kind of power Russell projects. 25ish? 30ish? His swing looks good mechanically.

Parade_Rain said:

I agree about Baez, but it's hard to do that when Russell has no MLB AB's yet. Also, while Baez power could be missed, as mentioned, Russell would have better OBP. I'm curious as to what kind of power Russell projects. 25ish? 30ish? His swing looks good mechanically.

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IMO, its in the 20's. If he gets bigger closer to 30 but then he most likely wouldnt be able to play short anymore.

SilenceS said:

IMO, its in the 20's. If he gets bigger closer to 30 but then he most likely wouldnt be able to play short anymore.

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I think that's right. He may never play SS though.

So wouldn't any team like to have a lineup filled with a bunch of guys who hit a bit more than 20 HR a year, as long as they were also OBP guys?

Parade_Rain said:

So wouldn't any team like to have a lineup filled with a bunch of guys who hit a bit more than 20 HR a year, as long as they were also OBP guys?

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That's why as of now, Baez seems to be the highest prospect that you would consider putting in a deal. At least he is in my book.