Cole hamels

Parade_Rain · Feb 24, 2015

brett05 said:
So you think Shark > Hamels?

Was McKinney a top 10 prospect? No. Was he/is he anywhere near MLB ready? No. Where is that pitcher that came over, too? I'm offering a guy with teh bat speedz, a 3B who is blocked by Bryant and an A level pitcher who should track to the MLB. All for the chance of re-signing Hamels. what I just offered the Phillies is more promising than what the Cubs got in return for Shark.

brett05 · Feb 24, 2015

Parade_Rain said:
Was McKinney a top 10 prospect? No. Was he/is he anywhere near MLB ready? No. Where is that pitcher that came over, too? I'm offering a guy with teh bat speedz, a 3B who is blocked by Bryant and an A level pitcher who should track to the MLB. All for the chance of re-signing Hamels. what I just offered the Phillies is more promising than what the Cubs got in return for Shark.

You got Russell plus for Shark who isn't as good as Hamels. You gotta give at least that for Hamels who does not need to be resigned

Parade_Rain · Feb 24, 2015

brett05 said:
You got Russell plus for Shark who isn't as good as Hamels. You gotta give at least that for Hamels who does not need to be resigned

Shark isn't as good as Hamels? I'm giving up Baez. Hello. Baez...the one with Sheffield bat speed, a AAA 3B who is potential starter material at the MLB level and a top level SP from Kane County last season. I'm giving them more than what the Cubs got in return for Shark. The Cubs got a player who hasn't even taken a hack at the MLB level, a pitcher whose potential was found to be wanting and a prospect who is at A+ ball.

TL1961 · Feb 24, 2015

chibears55 said:
There no guarantee right now that a TOR starter will be available in 2015 off season. ..

Plus...

Money wise.. rather pay Hamels 23 mil over next 4 yrs then get in a bidding war and possibly end up paying a guy 30 mil over 7 yrs....

Amaro may want the moon of prospects right now but if no team offering him that then he just gonna have to settle for something closer to earth..
Especially if Hamels keeps pressing the issue..

Some of the potential FA pitchers may sign extensions, but not all of them.

When you look at what pitchers are getting in FA, it's unlikely very many will extend with their current teams unless they get a terrific offer.

And if the cost of Hamels is allegedly Bryant, Soler and CJ Edwards, after the 2015 season every pitcher in baseball will be available at that price.

TC in Mississippi · Feb 24, 2015

Parade_Rain said:
Was McKinney a top 10 prospect? No. Was he/is he anywhere near MLB ready? No. Where is that pitcher that came over, too? I'm offering a guy with teh bat speedz, a 3B who is blocked by Bryant and an A level pitcher who should track to the MLB. All for the chance of re-signing Hamels. what I just offered the Phillies is more promising than what the Cubs got in return for Shark.

McKinney was highly regarded at the time the deal was made and now is a top 100 prospect which most scouts assumed he would be at the time of the trade. Russell was the #6 prospect in the game at the time. Dan Strailey was a #5 type starter with MLB experience. So let's look at the trade this way. Baez is a prospect that has a slightly higher ceiling than Russell but a much lower floor and as such has much more limited appeal to potential suitors. To put it another way, some teams probably drool over him and other wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. Pretty much any team would take Russell. You're also talking 4 or 5 years of Hamels (depending on whether he adds the pursuing team to his non trade list until they agree to pick up his option, which of course he would be wise to do) at below market value as opposed to 1 1/2 years of Samardzija at admittedly well below market value. Hamels is arguably the third best left hander in baseball after Clayton Kershaw and Chris Sale, Samradzija is a solid #2 right hander with flashes of being a #1. So you're getting more years of cost control on a pitcher on a pitcher worth probably $7 million more a year than his contract stipulates for two lesser prospects than Russell and McKinney? So 5 years of a below market Hamels is worth significantly less than 1/2 years of a below market Samardzija? C'mon. If you want to go the Baez route, and I like Baez btw, I'd say including him, McKinney or Almora and Edwards is probably close to fair market for Hamels. I also think Amaro would turn that down. With all due respect he'd hang up the phone on your offer.

brett05 · Feb 24, 2015

Parade_Rain said:
Shark isn't as good as Hamels? I'm giving up Baez. Hello. Baez...the one with Sheffield bat speed, a AAA 3B who is potential starter material at the MLB level and a top level SP from Kane County last season. I'm giving them more than what the Cubs got in return for Shark. The Cubs got a player who hasn't even taken a hack at the MLB level, a pitcher whose potential was found to be wanting and a prospect who is at A+ ball.

SOme may argue Baez hasn't had a hack at the MLB level either.

Seriously though, Baez has a lot to prove to get back in that echelon level so no, Baez < Russell. I think the offer needs to include one of: Castro, Soler, Bryant, Russell

Parade_Rain · Feb 24, 2015

brett05 said:
SOme may argue Baez hasn't had a hack at the MLB level either.

Seriously though, Baez has a lot to prove to get back in that echelon level so no, Baez < Russell. I think the offer needs to include one of: Castro, Soler, Bryant, Russell

None of those players is worth trading for Hamels. There are plenty of pitchers available. Essentially, if the Phillies want something for Hamels, they will have to dial back their expectations.

Parade_Rain · Feb 24, 2015

TC in Mississippi said:
McKinney was highly regarded at the time the deal was made and now is a top 100 prospect which most scouts assumed he would be at the time of the trade. Russell was the #6 prospect in the game at the time. Dan Strailey was a #5 type starter with MLB experience. So let's look at the trade this way. Baez is a prospect that has a slightly higher ceiling than Russell but a much lower floor and as such has much more limited appeal to potential suitors. To put it another way, some teams probably drool over him and other wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. Pretty much any team would take Russell. You're also talking 4 or 5 years of Hamels (depending on whether he adds the pursuing team to his non trade list until they agree to pick up his option, which of course he would be wise to do) at below market value as opposed to 1 1/2 years of Samardzija at admittedly well below market value. Hamels is arguably the third best left hander in baseball after Clayton Kershaw and Chris Sale, Samradzija is a solid #2 right hander with flashes of being a #1. So you're getting more years of cost control on a pitcher on a pitcher worth probably $7 million more a year than his contract stipulates for two lesser prospects than Russell and McKinney? So 5 years of a below market Hamels is worth significantly less than 1/2 years of a below market Samardzija? C'mon. If you want to go the Baez route, and I like Baez btw, I'd say including him, McKinney or Almora and Edwards is probably close to fair market for Hamels. I also think Amaro would turn that down. With all due respect he'd hang up the phone on your offer.

Then include McKinney or Almora. I wouldn't include Edwards. I already stated I would add a SP from Kane County. He needs to hang up the phone then. He either wants to trade Hamels or he doesn't. He's asking too much. This isn't about Shark.

chibears55 · Feb 24, 2015

Good discussion going on here... Unfortunately im at work til tonight and cant fully participate like I want with resoonses.. ill be back tonight

brett05 · Feb 24, 2015

Parade_Rain said:
None of those players is worth trading for Hamels. There are plenty of pitchers available. Essentially, if the Phillies want something for Hamels, they will have to dial back their expectations.

I 100% disagree on your first comment, but your second comment is 100% true.

So you are like 200%

TC in Mississippi · Feb 24, 2015

Parade_Rain said:
None of those players is worth trading for Hamels. There are plenty of pitchers available. Essentially, if the Phillies want something for Hamels, they will have to dial back their expectations.

I agree with you. I still don't blame Amaro for asking because Hamels is arguably the third best LH P in the game and one the 10 best period and I think he has a better than 50% chance of getting those types of guys before he runs our of time and gets launched. the reason Hamels hasn't been dealt, IMHO, has less to do with asking price and more to do with need. No one needs him bad enough yet and they very well may not which is going to get the guy launched but so will making a lesser deal. Trades are hard in terms of value and balance.

Parade_Rain · Feb 24, 2015

brett05 said:
I 100% disagree on your first comment, but your second comment is 100% true.

So you are like 200%

No way. I am a 1%er.

brett05 · Feb 24, 2015

Parade_Rain said:
No way. I am a 1%er.

We all are.

Stop being nice to me. You are giving the meatties on both sides of town something to talk about.

Parade_Rain · Feb 24, 2015

brett05 said:
We all are.

Stop being nice to me. You are giving the meatties on both sides of town something to talk about.

Nah. This board had come to an understanding right before Grimson ran Dews off. It's a shame. Keep talking baseball, Brett05. If you want me to be a dbag, troll hard like you used to do. Remember-

Trollin', trollin', trollin'
Brett05 keeps on trollin'
Rawhide

brett05 · Feb 24, 2015

when's the first ST game? i am dying for some baseball

TC in Mississippi · Feb 24, 2015

brett05 said:
when's the first ST game? i am dying for some baseball

Seriously.

Next Thursday or Friday? Is that right?

brett05 · Feb 24, 2015

TC in Mississippi said:
Seriously.

srs

TC in Mississippi · Feb 24, 2015

Ok just for grins, Amaro Jr. gets launched and you get hired as Philly GM. You know the Cubs are one of the teams that like Hamels but unlike Amaro you don't think you can build a winner on the fly. You've got the draft coming up with some nice positioning and you're almost certain to have good draft order in 2016 as well. You do you think Hamels can really help you rebuild even before those picks get there though. Who do you ask for?

Me, I ask for CJ Edwards, Gleyber Torres, Billy McKinney and Jake Stinnett along with maybe one more fringe player with some upside. If you're the Cubs do you make that deal, if not what do you counter with?

This is a little bit more than an exercise because I think this is the kind of package that a new Philly GM would probably look for. Younger players, more quantity a bit further away but a means to jump start a rebuild in a hurry.

TL1961 · Feb 24, 2015

Parade_Rain said:
Then include McKinney or Almora. I wouldn't include Edwards. I already stated I would add a SP from Kane County. He needs to hang up the phone then. He either wants to trade Hamels or he doesn't. He's asking too much. This isn't about Shark.

But remember, Amaro isn't at risk of losing Hamels to FA any time soon if he doesn't trade him. It's one thing of a pitcher is in the last year of his contract, and the team needs to get something in return vs. nothing. It's quite another if it is simply a cost cutting move.

TL1961 · Feb 24, 2015

TC in Mississippi said:
Ok just for grins, Amaro Jr. gets launched and you get hired as Philly GM. You know the Cubs are one of the teams that like Hamels but unlike Amaro you don't think you can build a winner on the fly. You've got the draft coming up with some nice positioning and you're almost certain to have good draft order in 2016 as well. You do you think Hamels can really help you rebuild even before those picks get there though. Who do you ask for?

Me, I ask for CJ Edwards, Gleyber Torres, Billy McKinney and Jake Stinnett along with maybe one more fringe player with some upside. If you're the Cubs do you make that deal, if not what do you counter with?

This is a little bit more than an exercise because I think this is the kind of package that a new Philly GM would probably look for. Younger players, more quantity a bit further away but a means to jump start a rebuild in a hurry.

Philly won't get what they're currently asking for, but they'll get more than this most likely. (Unless they trade with St. Louis, in which case Philly will give Hamels away for a picture of the arch.)

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