Cole hamels

chibears55

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Going on a gut feeling but i think Cole Hamels will be a Cub if not opening day then no later then May 1st...

I just think Cubs have most to offer in both major league ready and prospects ( whom Sandberg is connected to some )..


I could see Travis Wood and or Wellington Castillo being a part of this trade a long with a couple prospects. .


I could be way off, but at least to me it makes sense. ..
 

TC in Mississippi

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Going on a gut feeling but i think Cole Hamels will be a Cub if not opening day then no later then May 1st...

I just think Cubs have most to offer in both major league ready and prospects ( whom Sandberg is connected to some )..


I could see Travis Wood and or Wellington Castillo being a part of this trade a long with a couple prospects. .


I could be way off, but at least to me it makes sense. ..

Amaro has consistently asked for a team's top 2 prospects, with the Red Sox it's been Mookie Betts or Xander Bogearts along with Blake Swihart and one more from the top twenty, from the Dodgers it's been Corey Seager, Joc Pederson and Chris Reed. From the Cubs he's wanted two of these three, Bryant, Soler and Russell plus C.J. Edwards. Granted all of these have been non starters with the respective clubs but why, given these demands, would Amaro change tacks and take a package of two guys the Cubs have been trying to trade for months with no takers? More likely is that Boston will get him now that they've shored up their farm system with Yoan Moncada and might now be able to offer a package led by Bogaerts or Betts while still refusing to trade Swihart. Listen, Amaro needs to hit a home run here to save his job. He's promised the Phillies that he can retool in one year by trading Hamels and Cliff Lee and their patience is running thin. If he makes no deal he's fired, if he makes a bad deal he's fired. Boston might offer him a way out. The Cubs are not going to derail their rebuild for Hamels. Now if he's launched and his successor is looking for a larger package of prospects a bit further away in mid season, then yes he might be a target but now? Not a chance.
 

chibears55

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Amaro has consistently asked for a team's top 2 prospects, with the Red Sox it's been Mookie Betts or Xander Bogearts along with Blake Swihart and one more from the top twenty, from the Dodgers it's been Corey Seager, Joc Pederson and Chris Reed. From the Cubs he's wanted two of these three, Bryant, Soler and Russell plus C.J. Edwards. Granted all of these have been non starters with the respective clubs but why, given these demands, would Amaro change tacks and take a package of two guys the Cubs have been trying to trade for months with no takers? More likely is that Boston will get him now that they've shored up their farm system with Yoan Moncada and might now be able to offer a package led by Bogaerts or Betts while still refusing to trade Swihart. Listen, Amaro needs to hit a home run here to save his job. He's promised the Phillies that he can retool in one year by trading Hamels and Cliff Lee and their patience is running thin. If he makes no deal he's fired, if he makes a bad deal he's fired. Boston might offer him a way out. The Cubs are not going to derail their rebuild for Hamels. Now if he's launched and his successor is looking for a larger package of prospects a bit further away in mid season, then yes he might be a target but now? Not a chance.
I know what he wants, doesn't mean he gonna get it,,,

If he seriously looking to move Hamels, he just may have to take a bit less then what he wants.. especially if he not getting those offers from any other teams. ..


Like i said, the Cubs may just have the best to offer
( be close to what he wants )
 

TC in Mississippi

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I don't think the Cubs feel the need is that great right now. They may feel differently if they're in contention in July and if Hamels is available they'll take a look, particularly if Amaro is gone, but there could be other deals too. Pitching is a strength of the Cubs with a lot if other question marks, particularly run production. They need to see if those are solved first before adding pitching. If they are, they will. If Boston adds Hamels they are the overwhelming favorites in the AL East and they just added who is now the number 10 prospect in baseball strengthening an already strong system. Need plus the assets to make it happen. My money is on them.
 

CSF77

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Say at the trade deadline Russell is ready. Cubs offer Castro, Edwards and Wood (fair in value deal) I believe the Cubs pull the trigger. I doubt they trade any hitting prospect.
 

chibears55

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Say at the trade deadline Russell is ready. Cubs offer Castro, Edwards and Wood (fair in value deal) I believe the Cubs pull the trigger. I doubt they trade any hitting prospect.
I dont think theyll trade any of their top hitting prospects but they could offer up ones in the next tier along with possibly guys like Edwards, wood, and Castillo..

Im thinking a package of 5/6 young major league ready and prospects could make Amaro think hard about it..
 

CSF77

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I dont think theyll trade any of their top hitting prospects but they could offer up ones in the next tier along with possibly guys like Edwards, wood, and Castillo..

Im thinking a package of 5/6 young major league ready and prospects could make Amaro think hard about it..

He wants 2 blue chips. But Castro is a all star. If Wood bounces back (3.50 ERA like) and Edwards proves durable it becomes a decent haul with Castro locked up in a team friendly deal. Now The Cubs could toss Vogelbach into it as the Phills are trying to shed Howard also.

Cubs have plenty of toss in types but I believe if the Cubs are looking to add payroll they will look to shed at the same time. Castro => Russell is a pay cut. Wood out is the rest of this year and arb3.

I don't see any team over paying here. Not with guys going into F/A next year. If their team is out of it I expect them hitting the market. The Reds alone have 2 they could dangle.
 

chibears55

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I don't think the Cubs feel the need is that great right now.

In my thought process, i think they have a great need right now to put together a strong veteran rotation. ...

I look at it this way... The best way to ease in a young talented group of hitters is by taking the pressure off them of feeling the need to score a bunch of runs to win every game ..

You put out a rotation that could hold opponents to 3runs or less for the most part, your not asking too much out of your young hitters and allows them to just relax and play their game...

They also have a pretty decent looking Bullpen right now to add to that thought process of helping to keep pressure off the young offense. ..

That just the way i look at it. ....
 

CSF77

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In my thought process, i think they have a great need right now to put together a strong veteran rotation. ...

I look at it this way... The best way to ease in a young talented group of hitters is by taking the pressure off them of feeling the need to score a bunch of runs to win every game ..

You put out a rotation that could hold opponents to 3runs or less for the most part, your not asking too much out of your young hitters and allows them to just relax and play their game...

They also have a pretty decent looking Bullpen right now to add to that thought process of helping to keep pressure off the young offense. ..

That just the way i look at it. ....

Too many questions right now. I believe the need will grow if they are in the hunt. Right now they are trying to sort out who is playing where and if Baez/Wood/Castillo etc will open with the team.

Cubs are better off letting the season shake out and then make a educated decision at that point.

If they are out of it I do not see the problem with trading Wood, Castillo, Castro, Jackson. Thus clearing payroll to go after Price.
 

chibears55

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Too many questions right now. I believe the need will grow if they are in the hunt. Right now they are trying to sort out who is playing where and if Baez/Wood/Castillo etc will open with the team.

Cubs are better off letting the season shake out and then make a educated decision at that point.

If they are out of it I do not see the problem with trading Wood, Castillo, Castro, Jackson. Thus clearing payroll to go after Price.
Price might get an extension with the tigers now....

I think the cubs would be more comfortable attaining Hamels 23 mil for 4 years, then paying price close to if not 30 mil for the next 7 yrs...
 

TL1961

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Amaro has consistently asked for a team's top 2 prospects, with the Red Sox it's been Mookie Betts or Xander Bogearts along with Blake Swihart and one more from the top twenty, from the Dodgers it's been Corey Seager, Joc Pederson and Chris Reed. From the Cubs he's wanted two of these three, Bryant, Soler and Russell plus C.J. Edwards. Granted all of these have been non starters with the respective clubs but why, given these demands, would Amaro change tacks and take a package of two guys the Cubs have been trying to trade for months with no takers? More likely is that Boston will get him now that they've shored up their farm system with Yoan Moncada and might now be able to offer a package led by Bogaerts or Betts while still refusing to trade Swihart. Listen, Amaro needs to hit a home run here to save his job. He's promised the Phillies that he can retool in one year by trading Hamels and Cliff Lee and their patience is running thin. If he makes no deal he's fired, if he makes a bad deal he's fired. Boston might offer him a way out. The Cubs are not going to derail their rebuild for Hamels. Now if he's launched and his successor is looking for a larger package of prospects a bit further away in mid season, then yes he might be a target but now? Not a chance.

I have never heard that they were looking for, or expecting, 2 of those 3. And you say two PLUS CJ Edwards? No way. No how.

Yes, we overvalue prospects. But if they were ever to trade Bryant and Russell together, the pitcher in return better be Sandy Koufax. Much less throwing in Edwards.

Amaro may be "demanding" such a return, but I notice he hasn't found a dance partner.

ONE of those three prospects AND CJ Edwards would be OK. Maybe.
 

TL1961

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With all the FA pitchers next off season, the demand for Hamel isn't high enough to warrant the price Philly is asking.

I'd love to have Cole Hamel. But if they go for him, I hope they don't pay too high a price.
 

CSF77

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ONE of those three prospects AND CJ Edwards would be OK. Maybe.

Russell is the only one I would conciser. Soler is a rare talent out of Cuba that has an advanced approach at the plate. We could be talking about a .300/.390/.590 type every year. Bryant is untouchable. Russell they have Castro long term and Baez who could play with Alcantara moved to 2B if Castro gets injured. That is a deep spot where they could lose Russell. Not to mention they have Gleyber Torres up welling.
 

TL1961

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They have a lot of blocked prospects they could trade.

Trade Voglebach, Villanueva the 3rd baseman, and a couple other pieces, one of which I would assume would have to be a little higher on the food chain. And that is all.
 

Boobaby1

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Trade Voglebach, Villanueva the 3rd baseman, and a couple other pieces, one of which I would assume would have to be a little higher on the food chain. And that is all.

Philly isn't going to move Hamels for anything less than a top prospect of Russell, Soler, or Bryant headlining the deal. Other players would have to include probably Edwards, Almora and maybe a Vogelbach to get the deal done.

If the Cubs pryed away Addison Russell for a year and a half of Jeff Samardzija, it will indeed take a lot more than the Cubs lower prospects or parent league castoffs to get 5 years of Cole Hamels.

Philly is looking to rebuild the organization, and Wood and Castillo will not get them started in the right direction.

If I had Hamels, I would be asking for the moon too, and I would get it or something that I liked.

Now for the Cubs, if they are in it at the deadline and need an upgrade, I can see them dealing Castillo, Wood, and/or some prospects to get a Chase Utley or Cliff Lee maybe if Philly wants to shed some payroll which isn't out of the question.
 

TC in Mississippi

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Ok a few things, the Cubs have a pretty solid rotation right now. I understand the sample size on Arrieta is small but his stuff can't be questioned, the big issue is durability at this point. I'm not thrilled at Hammell at 3 but aside from a shaky start in Oakland last year you can argue he belongs there. Hendricks at 4 is a nice place for a young pitcher who showed a lot of grit last year. I have to admit I wasn't sold on him but read some scouting reports on this kid and you'll change your mind. I didn't bring up #1 because Jon Lester is a veteran stud. Now here's the best part; there are 5 guys vying for 5th starter in Jacob Turner, Travis Wood, Edwin Jackson, Felix Doubront and Tsuyoshi Wada. All 5 have started before but of course all have some negatives. Competition is a positive. Ideally you'd like a left hander to win the job but we'll see. My point is starting pitching is at least above average and the Cubs issues haven't been pitching. I will agree that this is not a playoff rotation but where are the guarantees this team is even fighting for a playoff spot? I see reasons to be hopeful but we're not there yet. How about letting Kris Bryant take a pitch before trading prospects for a not quite need or indulging in the mental gymnastics of trading guys Ruben Amaro has no interest in.

Amaro is going for broke, in his position I would do the same thing. Boston has a greater need than Chicago and just put themselves in a greater position to negotiate. What if Clayton Kershaw were to go down for LA? Think they might come closer to Amaro's price? He's not yet in a hurry because a deal that doesn't get Philly back close to competing fast (say mid 2016) gets him fired. That what he promised his bosses and it's not looking good. Making no deal gets him fired. So what's his incentive right now? My best guess is that he gets until mid May at which point his team will be at the bottom of the NL and the natives will be restless. If one his scenarios comes true maybe he trades Hamels and saves his job by then, but I doubt it. By the deadline a new guy is in charge and is looking, much more realistically, at a longer term rebuild. By then maybe a less top heavy package is attractive to Philly or maybe there are more attractive trades out there if the Cubs are in this thing.

Bottom line is that is a near certainty that that the Cubs will not be parting with Kris Bryant, Addison Russell, Jorge Soler or Kyle Schwarber anytime in the next year. It's also unlikely that Javier Baez, CJ Edwards or Albert Almora get traded any time before July and even after that is questionable although I'm sure they'll listen if pitching is a need. They didn't build up this asset pool to deplete it before knowing all the strengths and weaknesses they might have while approaching contention. You also have to look at the Division. Pittsburgh looks very strong going into Spring Training, if the season started tomorrow they'd be my pick to win it. St. Louis are who they always are albeit with some questionable pitching health. How do the Cubs stack up? I'd say we have very little idea overall but I would say that top to bottom, rotation and bullpen, the Cubs have better pitching than either. In terms of hitting Pittsburgh looks like a beast, St. Louis not far behind and the Cubs? Well they could be too but the jury is out and that's the key. Lots of questions and pitching is down the list. Listen, if the Cubs are 5 games or more over .500 at the All Star break, Soler and Bryant are battling it out for RoY and Rizzo is chasing MVP lets talk about trading prospects for pitching. Until then they bide their time, listen for good opportunities and let this team gel into what it's going to be.
 

TC in Mississippi

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Cubs rotation above average? SO in other words the Cubs starting rotation is no worse than #14....Hmmmm....Hmmmm...Hmmm.

Maybe yes, maybe no
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/108815182/top-10-mlb-rotations-for-2015

I'd probably say that the rotation is somewhere between 8-15 but overall staff including bullpen could be better than that. Time will tell. My overall point is that now is not the time for overpaying for pitching although if the bats cooperate that day will come. The other thing is that I think the Cardinals rotation is suspect due to Wainwright's heavy innings and nagging injuries and the health of Wacha. That combo could be one of the best in the game or be quite suspect. I have very little doubt that the Cubs have a better rotation than Pittsburgh. Both of those teams will hit better than the Cubs though barring a lot of ifs becoming concrete answers. When that happens it'll be time to readdress pitching. All I'm saying really.
 

CSF77

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Cubs rotation above average? SO in other words the Cubs starting rotation is no worse than #14....Hmmmm....Hmmmm...Hmmm.

Maybe yes, maybe no
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/108815182/top-10-mlb-rotations-for-2015

I wouldn't have ranked the Pads that high. Cashner has never pitched a full season. You can't value Cashner for it and discredit Arrieta by not adding his value to the Cubs rotation.

Streamer predicts:
Arrieta: 3.40 FIP. 163 IP I'm not agreeing with them. He avg: 6.24 IP per game started. He was putting up a work horse mentality. They believe he will regress to a 6 inning pitcher. Nothing has proven that he has a problem with high pitch counts. you give Arrieta 32 starts last year it comes out to 199 IP which is respectable. SO/9 9 is pretty reasonable for him. BB/9 he improved his control which was key for him. Adding a good pitch framer should only improve it.

Getting to pitch framing I'll bet Theo is on to something with this. If it decreases the staff's BB/9 and increases it's K/9 it is worth turning over the catcher spot.

Travis Wood: 7.57 K/9 3.94 BB/9 2013: 6.48 K/9 2.97 BB/9 Looking at that his IP/game in 2013: 6.25 2014: 5.58 IE his pitch count went up. That is going to be key with him and missing along the edges will kill him. But having a catcher that excels in framing close call pitches will only help here. It ties directly to getting the starters deeper into games.

At the end of the day it is more than getting name types in the rotation. It is about making what they have work. Reality is Jackson and Wood have more talent than Hendricks and Wada, For that matter Turner has untapped potential. They get these guys fixed and able to trust pitching on the corners more the Cubs could have a very strong staff.
 

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