Looking ahead to the future

Scoot26 · Feb 25, 2015

While there's still a season left to play this year and there's not much the Bulls can do about it... Its time to at least open discussion to the future.

Derrick Rose's 3rd knee injury in 3 years is not surprising, yet unexpected, given we didn't see it happen this time around and no one seems to know when it happened. This particular injury initially sounds like the least worrisome of his 3 knee injuries, but given it's Derrick Rose and it's his knee again I can't help but wonder he'll probably take the longest recovery path and mentally he has to be messed up at this point. I'll withhold complete judgment until he has surgery and we know what is done.

One assumption has to be made in this thread though....

Derrick Rose IS NOT tradeable, nor can he be released.

The only thing the Bulls could do is a medical buyout, but Rose would have to agree to that. For all considerations of this thread, Derrick Rose and his full guaranteed contract is stuck here until the conclusion of the 2016-17 season being the starting PG as long as he is healthy to play.

That said, what do you think the Bulls should do in the next few seasons to improve the team?

Scoot26 · Feb 25, 2015

Right now, it's Butler's team and he is the go to guy. He's tapered off a lot since his hot start in Nov/December, but is still a guy who can get 20 ppg. His defense hasn't been as great this year either. Without Rose, we'll see how Butler responds to the task at hand.

Additionally, we'll see what leap Niko takes next season. He's flashed great moments this season, but as with most of the team we haven't seen a whole lot of consistency from him. Niko though I give a break given he is an NBA rookie. But I think at this point, the Bulls need to hope Niko lives up to the task of becoming the next Dirk Nowitzki.

Then there is Snell. He's had a great February, but can he keep this up and become a solid player? The best hope is Snell develops along the lines of Butler and enters All-Star territory next year or the year after. If that is the case, along with Niko's development the Bulls have 3 All-Stars in Butler-Niko-Snell.

Lastly, there is Doug McDermott. We haven't seen anything out of this season and leaves little reason for us to believe in him now other than the past trends of rookie development for the Bulls. But he hasn't even shown any flash when he has played this year, which is the same problem Marquis Teague had. So who knows. I do hope he can become a 6th man type player for the Bulls, or the starting SF if Snell doesnt take a bigger step for the future. The Bulls invested much in him, so there is hope he has a coming out party next year.

The Bulls are stuck with Derrick Rose and his knees for 2 more seasons. I looked up when the CBA can be opted out of.. it's not until after the 2016-17 season, which is Rose's last year. The NBA should have a huge salary cap rise for the 2016-17 season due to the TV deal, hard to say how that is put into the league though, it may become a CBA issue. Not something we can really look into at the moment.

Given that info, the best thing the Bulls could do is trade Noah, Gasol, and Gibson this off season for future draft picks and possibly young cheap contracts. I highly doubt any of these picks could be lotto picks, so the Bulls may need to gather a bunch of picks and package them together to move up in the draft. They can acquire their center / pg of the future.

Free agency will continue to be what it's always been for the Bulls, a major disappointment. They'll be able to sign middle-tier guys or guys on their last legs (like Gasol). They will continue to miss out on any top players, so I'd rather not plan for such a thing. Miami is all set up to be big players in 2016, they'll likely get everyone again. Not to mention GM LeBron seems to be able to pull any strings in the NBA he wants.

Many scouts have alerady said the 2016 draft looks weak, so there is that to consider as well. I'd hope the Bulls wouldn't get all invested in such a draft like the 2016 draft if that does end up being the case. Many GMs at the trade deadline refused to take on 2016 picks.

So other than reload in the draft and sign middle tier free agents, not much the Bulls can do. GarPax have been reluctant to make a big trade as well. It is an option, but we haven't seen the kind of deal made to acquire a difference maker... So they have to continue to strike on late round picks as well as I don't see this team NOT being a playoff team. They're kind of in 2005-2012 Atlanta Hawks area right now.

clonetrooper264 · Feb 25, 2015

I predict the next decade will top out at around 2006 level of play. We'll have the 2020 version of Kirk Hinrich manning the point (with all the grit you can ask for), perhaps we'll have Tony Snell at SG doing decent things, Jimmy at SF probably playing at around Deng level at that point, Niko hopefully being our version of Dirk, and perhaps the next generation's Tyson Chandler at center. We'll be decent, but not good enough to get into Finals discussion. Once again, always left pining for the next opportunity to luck ourselves into a superstar in the draft...because we all know we're not signing anyone.

Scoot26 · Feb 25, 2015

clonetrooper264 said:
I predict the next decade will top out at around 2006 level of play. We'll have the 2020 version of Kirk Hinrich manning the point (with all the grit you can ask for), perhaps we'll have Tony Snell at SG doing decent things, Jimmy at SF probably playing at around Deng level at that point, Niko hopefully being our version of Dirk, and perhaps the next generation's Tyson Chandler at center. We'll be decent, but not good enough to get into Finals discussion. Once again, always left pining for the next opportunity to luck ourselves into a superstar in the draft...because we all know we're not signing anyone.

I think they can be better then 2006-07 level. That team was a 49 win team that got beat badly in the 2nd round.

The East is LeBron's for another 5 years. After that its anyone's guess as to who rises next. Washington could become that team, but I still see them being a major piece away from it. Indiana is about to shoot themselves in the ass by making the playoffs this year. If they don't make it, they could get another star in the draft and be a formidable opponent. I have trouble believing Atlanta continues this... Toronto is missing several pieces.

A team that has a lot of young talent and hope is the Orlando Magic... and then it'll be interesting to see how the Sixers tanking for 4 years works out as well.

clonetrooper264 · Feb 25, 2015

Scoot26 said:
I think they can be better then 2006-07 level. That team was a 49 win team that got beat badly in the 2nd round.

The East is LeBron's for another 5 years. After that its anyone's guess as to who rises next. Washington could become that team, but I still see them being a major piece away from it. Indiana is about to shoot themselves in the ass by making the playoffs this year. If they don't make it, they could get another star in the draft and be a formidable opponent. I have trouble believing Atlanta continues this... Toronto is missing several pieces.

A team that has a lot of young talent and hope is the Orlando Magic... and then it'll be interesting to see how the Sixers tanking for 4 years works out as well.

Heck, Milwaukee may be a player by then too. Assuming Jabari sticks with them after his rookie deal and he pans out into the superstar we all expect him to be. Him plus the Greek Freak and possibly MCW would be a pretty dang good core.

The Hawk · Feb 25, 2015

They should jettison Gasol, Dunleavy, Noah, and Hinrich for expiring contracts and draft picks while scouring foreign leagues for talent. Then make a big push for free agent talent. The sooner the better that they can get rid of Rose they should do it also. He is done and the fact is that he was not nearly the player that they expected him to be before he got hurt once again.

Thibs probably will be let go and might have been anyway when they would have exited after the first round. The real problem and the people who should go are Gar/Pax who made this mess in the first place. Let Thibs go somewhere that he is appreciated not where he is now.

I guess what I am feeling is equal parts anger and disappointment. This season was a lousy one to watch and maybe having it end early was maybe a good thing because it was obvious that they were going to fail and losing Rose just moved the inevitability up a couple of months. Oh well, spring training is starting and baseball is almost underway

Scoot26 · Feb 25, 2015

clonetrooper264 said:
Heck, Milwaukee may be a player by then too. Assuming Jabari sticks with them after his rookie deal and he pans out into the superstar we all expect him to be. Him plus the Greek Freak and possibly MCW would be a pretty dang good core.

Guess I have trouble trusting much of what Milwaukee is doing.

clonetrooper264 · Feb 25, 2015

Scoot26 said:
Guess I have trouble trusting much of what Milwaukee is doing.

I have no idea what they're doing either, but the potential is there for the moment.

Scoot26 · Feb 25, 2015

clonetrooper264 said:
I have no idea what they're doing either, but the potential is there for the moment.

Yeah, though maybe all these Simeon players are cursed with bad knees.

clonetrooper264 · Feb 25, 2015

Scoot26 said:
Yeah, though maybe all these Simeon players are cursed with bad knees.

The curse of Simeon Academy

RamiTheBullsFan · Feb 25, 2015

The knee-jerk reactions by Bulls' fans, and the call to fire Tom Thibodeau and re-build are worse than the knee injury to Rose itself.

This is a good team. Rose or no Rose. Horrible burden of a contract or no. Firing Thibodeau is the dumbest thing imaginable to do. I'd bet my life that Thibs isn't going to get fired... especially now that the Bulls' expectations for this season have, in the public mind, gone completely out the window.

Even normally level-headed posters on this site are losing it. Take a deep breath and relax.

Hell, all we are doing is assuming that Rose is going to opt for the repair and not have the full-on removal. None of us are doctors (in all likelihood). None of us are Rose. People really shouldn't judge unless they've walked in the right pair of shoes.

ZOMBIE@CTESPN · Feb 25, 2015

at least we dont have the carmello contract to go with d rose one. Man that would have been a disaster

I think jerry has to consider a buyout of rose. Then start trading the 30+ crowd and collect assets

RamiTheBullsFan · Feb 25, 2015

BEARZOMBIE said:
at least we dont have the carmello contract to go with d rose one. Man that would have been a disaster

I think jerry has to consider a buyout of rose. Then start trading the 30+ crowd and collect assets

None of those are bad ideas. But firing one of the best coaches in the NBA would be.

If the right offers come along for Taj, you should do it (especially because of Mirotic). Noah is a very good player and if the Bulls can re-sign him for less $/yr then they should consider it.

Gasol's contract is so good, I don't see a point of trading him. He's the best free agent to sign with the Bulls in forever. I just can't justify trading the guy when he's a very good player who took a discount to sign here. That would be telling all future free agents "you'd be an idiot to sign here."

A medical buy-out for Rose is an option I am leaning more towards.

Axl Rose · Feb 25, 2015

-Trade Noah, Taj & Gasol
-Trade Tom Thibodeau to Memphis or wherever
-Hire Fred Hoiberg

only Nikola/Jimmy/McDermott/Snell should be considered as future/possible future pieces

not much you can do with Rose other then ride out the next 2 years or use the stretch provision which stretches his cap hit to 8m a year for the next 5 years

RamiTheBullsFan · Feb 25, 2015

AirGordon7 said:
-Trade Noah, Taj & Gasol
-Trade Tom Thibodeau to Memphis or wherever
-Hire Fred Hoiberg

only Nikola/Jimmy/McDermott/Snell should be considered as future/possible future pieces

not much you can do with Rose other then ride out the next 2 years or use the stretch provision which stretches his cap hit to 8m a year for the next 5 years

I love the notion that only players on rookie contracts are worth keeping. Jimmy is about to get PAID/hated. Nikola is going to get PAID sooner than later. McDermott has proven nothing. I'd take Joakim Noah's huge contract over McDermott's tiny one anyday considering you KNOW what you get with Noah: a very good starting center.

Axl Rose · Feb 25, 2015

RamiTheBullsFan said:
I love the notion that only players on rookie contracts are worth keeping. Jimmy is about to get PAID/hated. Nikola is going to get PAID sooner than later. McDermott has proven nothing. I'd take Joakim Noah's huge contract over McDermott's tiny one anyday considering you KNOW what you get with Noah: a very good starting center.

whats the point of keeping a 30 year old center on a team going through a rebuilding period?

even if its a soft rebuild Noah would probably be 32 by then and hes not really skilled

he already looks like a disaster on offense

Diddy1122 · Feb 25, 2015

RamiTheBullsFan said:
The knee-jerk reactions by Bulls' fans, and the call to fire Tom Thibodeau and re-build are worse than the knee injury to Rose itself.

This is a good team. Rose or no Rose. Horrible burden of a contract or no. Firing Thibodeau is the dumbest thing imaginable to do. I'd bet my life that Thibs isn't going to get fired... especially now that the Bulls' expectations for this season have, in the public mind, gone completely out the window.

Even normally level-headed posters on this site are losing it. Take a deep breath and relax.

Hell, all we are doing is assuming that Rose is going to opt for the repair and not have the full-on removal. None of us are doctors (in all likelihood). None of us are Rose. People really shouldn't judge unless they've walked in the right pair of shoes.

No one is openly calling to fire Thibs. The smart fans at least. However, we are resigned to the fact that it has a very good chance of happening now, considering the strained relationship with the FO. I can definitely see this as their opportunity to start clean with a new coaching staff. I certainly wouldn't be betting your life that he's staying.

In fact, how should we collect on that bet if you lose? :smug:

I know we aren't doctors, (heck Dwayne Wade has played his entire NBA career without a meniscus in his right knee) but I think we all see the writing on the wall. The days of Rose being anything close to a game changing player are over. He simply won't be a player who can attack with ferociousness, log big minutes, and still remain healthy. So where does that exactly leave us with him? 15-25 mins off the bench? Yea that's all fine and dandy for a one dimensional player that will give you shooting or defense, but Rose is not great in either of those areas. What set him apart from anyone else was his incredible explosion. It was the best the NBA had ever seen. Period. Without that & the ability to sustain that throughout an entire season, Rose is not going to be very effective for the team.

Crystallas · Feb 25, 2015

14 teams in the NBA try to rebuild every year. It's not so simple. Flipping from NBA purgatory to championship team is not easy, especially when you land rookies in the draft that are elite, but don't want to play for a losing team and have no patience(because they are young). It's NBA 2K mentality.

Always salvage what you have, and make the best moves possible. Rebuilding rarely gets a team to a championship. Salvaging and continued building does a lot more.

Axl Rose · Feb 25, 2015

Crystallas said:
14 teams in the NBA try to rebuild every year. It's not so simple. Flipping from NBA purgatory to championship team is not easy, especially when you land rookies in the draft that are elite, but don't want to play for a losing team and have no patience(because they are young). It's NBA 2K mentality.

Always salvage what you have, and make the best moves possible. Rebuilding rarely gets a team to a championship. Salvaging and continued building does a lot more.

i agree its probably not gonna be as simple as ppl hope

but its coming whether its now or in 2 years

NCChiFan · Feb 25, 2015

Sadly, our Bulls are now in a serious Catch-22... With Gar-Pax keeping an elite bench, and having solid starters with no superstar, coupled with a great Defensive mind in Thibs, the Bulls will not be in the hunt for any lotto picks. So it would make the decision to blow it all up, even harder as I think the Bulls will remain very competitive. Which sucks. If nothing changes, we are in for a long run of mediocrity, unless Snell or McD or someone else comes out of the blue and becomes something.

Like the Bears, having an atrocious season, only to get a top 10 pick in the worst QB draft in years, maybe decades.

Looking ahead to the future

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