2015 NBA Eastern Conference Playoff Race

nbafan23 · Mar 29, 2015

Bulls are now what? 5 games away from winning 50 games? Think they can pull it out?

knoxville7 · Mar 29, 2015

nbafan23 said:
Bulls are now what? 5 games away from winning 50 games? Think they can pull it out?

absolutely....a couple games ago I predicted theyd finish the year 8 - 2 for a 51 - 31 finish :beerbang:

JosMin · Mar 29, 2015

knoxville7 said:
agreed. but at the same time the whole obsession with minutes is pretty silly IMO. these are some of the worlds best athletes, I don't think it makes a ton of a difference if they play 38 or 35 or 32, etc minutes a game. on the current bulls roster id pay attention to noahs minutes because of the knee, and pau because he is an older big man. I mean those bulls teams on the 2nd three peat were older and yet played big time minutes still.....and I don't recall anyone giving phil Jackson shit over it :shrug:

You're able to get away with some shit when you've already won three titles.

knoxville7 · Mar 29, 2015

JosMin said:
You're able to get away with some shit when you've already won three titles.

fair enough...I just don't see the issue with minutes for the majority of players on the roster

Bear Pride · Mar 29, 2015

knoxville7 said:
agreed. but at the same time the whole obsession with minutes is pretty silly IMO. these are some of the worlds best athletes, I don't think it makes a ton of a difference if they play 38 or 35 or 32, etc minutes a game. on the current bulls roster id pay attention to noahs minutes because of the knee, and pau because he is an older big man. I mean those bulls teams on the 2nd three peat were older and yet played big time minutes still.....and I don't recall anyone giving phil Jackson shit over it :shrug:

I disagree, it takes a toll on your body eventually. And personally, I'm tired of people mentioning the old Bulls and especially MJ. Let's not forget that MJ took a couple years off cuz he was burnt out on basketball. :dunno: No one seems to mention that at all. Plus, the game is different today.

knoxville7 · Mar 29, 2015

Bear Pride said:
I disagree, it takes a toll on your body eventually. And personally, I'm tired of people mentioning the old Bulls and especially MJ. Let's not forget that MJ took a couple years off cuz he was burnt out on basketball. :dunno: No one seems to mention that at all. Plus, the game is different today.

yeah, the game isn't as physical today as it used to be :shrug:
so you think that there is a true difference in playing 35 min a game and 30 min a game? for a healthy player there isn't any difference IMO. these guys are world class athletes for the most part, running up and down the court a few extra minutes isn't a difference maker

and I could have mentioned several other teams back then playing players that kind of minutes but referenced the bulls since people on here are more likely to remember the old bulls as opposed to the old knicks or some other team. which btw ewing played 38 min a game at age 31 and Olajuwon played 40 min at age 32 while winning a title

Scoot26 · Mar 29, 2015

Bear Pride said:
I disagree, it takes a toll on your body eventually. And personally, I'm tired of people mentioning the old Bulls and especially MJ. Let's not forget that MJ took a couple years off cuz he was burnt out on basketball. :dunno: No one seems to mention that at all. Plus, the game is different today.

Let's be honest. Jordan wasn't burnt out on basketball at all. His father was murdered and it messed with Jordan mentally to the point he had no desire to play the game anymore. He was going to honor his father by playing baseball (since thats what his father always wanted him to do). Once Jordan spent a year and half failing miserably at doing that, he decided to return to the game he loved.

Bear Pride · Mar 29, 2015

knoxville7 said:
yeah, the game isn't as physical today as it used to be :shrug:
so you think that there is a true difference in playing 35 min a game and 30 min a game? for a healthy player there isn't any difference IMO. these guys are world class athletes for the most part, running up and down the court a few extra minutes isn't a difference maker

and I could have mentioned several other teams back then playing players that kind of minutes but referenced the bulls since people on here are more likely to remember the old bulls as opposed to the old knicks or some other team. which btw ewing played 38 min a game at age 31 and Olajuwon played 40 min at age 32 while winning a title

Well, you keep using some of the best players EVER as your examples......... say no more, but yes, more minutes does add up. Older year games were also slower, and more physical. Today's game is a lot more running, imo, and players do need rest.

Thib's also has a bad habit of playing players in long stretches in a game. He also sits them for long stretches, which is bad, imo. He'll play a player a full quarter, and then sit him for the next, only to play that same player for the entire next quarter. This is bad.

I used to hate sitting out too long when I played. After sweating so much, you actually get cold if you sit too long. That's why you see players put on sweat jackets. I'd much rather see a player get small bursts of play regular through the entire game, rather than long on/off stretches, imo.

This can actually promote injuries. It's similar to your diet, it's much better to eat many small meals in the day, then to eat a couple big meals.

Bear Pride · Mar 29, 2015

Scoot26 said:
Let's be honest. Jordan wasn't burnt out on basketball at all. His father was murdered and it messed with Jordan mentally to the point he had no desire to play the game anymore. He was going to honor his father by playing baseball (since thats what his father always wanted him to do). Once Jordan spent a year and half failing miserably at doing that, he decided to return to the game he loved.

No, MJ spoke many times about being burnt out after playing so many games during the repeats. That's why it's so hard to repeat. Yes, MJ had other stuff going on too, but I watched with my own eyes many times where he talked about being burnt out from playing so much. Still, MJ was MJ, a very rare athlete to begin with.

Diddy1122 · Mar 29, 2015

Bear Pride said:
No, MJ spoke many times about being burnt out after playing so many games during the repeats. That's why it's so hard to repeat. Yes, MJ had other stuff going on too, but I watched with my own eyes many times where he talked about being burnt out from playing so much. Still, MJ was MJ, a very rare athlete to begin with.

Wrong. In fact MJ was one of the first former players to speak to how ridiculous he thinks the "minutes" debate is.

MJ was never burnt out by playing too much. He could play 48 minutes, then party at a club til 5am, and play 48 minutes the next night. MJ left the game because he felt he accomplished everything he possibly could & he wasn't having much fun anymore. There was the gambling investigation & a possible suspension looming over the next season. Then his father was murdered. He was mentally burnt out, not physically. Hell he returned to the game after nearly 2 years away and barely missed a beat.

If he truly was so burnt out by the minutes, why would he exert all the physical effort to attempt his lifelong dream of becoming a baseball player after retiring the first time? MJ is a freak of nature and I agree all players shouldn't be held to his standard. However, I've always felt the minutes debate has been overblown, especially in today's infinitely less physical NBA.

Bear Pride · Mar 29, 2015

Diddy1122 said:
Wrong. In fact MJ was one of the first former players to speak to how ridiculous he thinks the "minutes" debate is.

MJ was never burnt out by playing too much. He could play 48 minutes, then party at a club til 5am, and play 48 minutes the next night. MJ left the game because he felt he accomplished everything he possibly could & he wasn't having much fun anymore. There was the gambling investigation & a possible suspension looming over the next season. Then his father was murdered. He was mentally burnt out, not physically. Hell he returned to the game after nearly 2 years away and barely missed a beat.

If he truly was so burnt out by the minutes, why would he exert all the physical effort to attempt his lifelong dream of becoming a baseball player after retiring the first time? MJ is a freak of nature and I agree all players shouldn't be held to his standard. However, I've always felt the minutes debate has been overblown, especially in today's infinitely less physical NBA.

You guys keep using MJ as an example. :smh: You said yourself he was a freak of nature? He and Rodman used to stay out all night and play the next day all the time. The game was different then. Average players can't do that in today's game.

You are truly not grasping the real point of minute management. It's simply an advantage the Bulls can't give up, imo, cuz there will be other teams that do take advantage of it. Especially, since the Bulls have one of the deepest rosters in the game.

Just listen to some real NBA people of what they say about today's game and minute management, and quit being defensive for Thib's. Times change, and Thib's hasn't, and it hurts the team:

"Coaches are smarter to the extent that they're using their entire roster of players, and not only that, developing them," said former Chicago Bulls player and head coach Bill Cartwright, who was also an assistant for the Phoenix Suns and New Jersey Nets in the 2000s. "To me, that's the biggest advantage of any championship team—that your bench is fully developed, your bench is making a contribution."

Miami Heat head coach Erik Spoelstra added, "Coaches want to work in that depth to keep their players as fresh as possible for that stretch run."

Both these quotes is what I've been saying about getting McD minutes all season. Not cuz McD's playing his best, but to accelerate his development and rest his players for the long run.

"Al's thinking, 'Back in the day, there was no second unit; there were a couple subs.' Even the Pistons teams that won championships (in 1989 and 1990) with Joe Dumars and Isiah (Thomas), they had (Dennis) Rodman and (John) Salley off the bench, and Vinnie Johnson was the guard. It was like a three-guard rotation. That's not the case any more."

"Not only are you developing your team using your entire roster, but you're also giving your guys more time to rest," Cartwright said. "It's not a sprint, it's a marathon, and the healthier that you can stay during the course of a season, the better."

"Now, people are afraid to play guys 42, 44 minutes a night," he said. "It's just part of the times, part of the expanding of the staffs. There are that many more people involved, and you have that many more opinions. And they think this guy will last longer in the NBA if we cut down his minutes to 34, 36 minutes a night."

"We're smarter in how we train and play," Cartwright said. "It's so unbelievable with what's happening now with how players are being taken care of after the game with the trainers. You've got Jacuzzis, cold tubs, masseuses, oxygen tanks for the guys and cryotherapy that freezes the players. We didn't have any of that when I came into the league."

"That does not mean we're devaluing regular-season games by any stretch of the imagination," he said, "but we want to make sure that they're reaching top physical and mental performance, and hopefully staying relatively healthy as possible."

"There are so many more people evaluating minutes played and who's tired, who's not tired," he said. "It's like Kevin (Garnett) not playing in back-to-backs (this season). They never did that in the '80s, like with Moses Malone. When they were tired, they were tired. They never did all the (testing) and the body analysis—the stuff that they're going through now.
"Back then, they didn't have six guys on the training staff analyzing the body. Nowadays, every team has one, maybe two, therapists. Now, there's the trainer, the strength coach, a director of performance like in Toronto."

Spoelstra said he and the team's trainers are in "constant communication" pointing out "possible red flags" regarding injuries and creating "specific plans" to help players stay fit, strong and productive.

"They implement a systematic injury-prevention and movement-enhancement program, and then overlay that with athletic performance training, and then overlay that with appropriate recovery, like nutrition, hydration, stress management," he said.

"Now, you start to see athletes maintain their durability to peak into their later years and still be playing at a very, very high level."

"Coaches have found out with many players, you reach a point of diminishing returns," Heat assistant Rothstein said. "Most players, to quote Chuck Daly, 'want 48 minutes and 48 shots,' and they all think that they should be starting and they all think they should be stars. But certain guys, if you play them 24 minutes a night, and then you start playing them 32 minutes a night, their numbers won't increase.

"Coaches have sort of figured out over the long haul, 'OK, we're better if this guy is a limited-minutes guy because some guys are limited-minutes guys.' They don't want to buy it, but the more they're on the court, the more their weaknesses become exposed. And the shorter their stint, the more their strengths are apparent."

"It's about making the most of whatever those opportunities are for the benefit of the team," Spoelstra said. "Getting a group of 15 men to buy into that takes an incredible amount of sacrifice.

You've got to have the right type of pros who understand the big picture and are in it for the reasons to keep the main thing the main thing, and that's to win. Our guys have done that, and it hasn't been easy."

"Money changes everything," Rothstein said. "Guys are taking better care of themselves because they're more concerned about the length of their careers and how much money they're making, and they want to pile all of that away. You probably have more guys who have people telling them that you don't want to wear yourself out.

Players have expressed to coaches and training staffs that they'd like to limit their minutes. There's a little bit of a herd mentality in everything. One guy sees it and the other guy says, 'Well, if that's good for him, maybe it's good for me too.'"

"We used to play when we were injured all the time," he said. "If you twisted your ankle or your knee swelled up, the next day you're just going to put some tape on it and play.

Now, guys are going to take some time off and get themselves back to where they were, so they can play at a very high level. If you look at those old films, guys were bandaged by the end of the season from head to toe, and just playing with whatever was bothering them. Now, they don't do that."

"In order to play productive minutes, we try to emphasize the intensity of how hard you're playing and not pacing," Spoelstra said. "If you're playing at the intensity level that we would expect, you shouldn't be able to play 45 minutes a game."

"The days of guys coming into training camp to get in shape are over," Rothstein said. "And I think that has led to the mindset, 'I can't give you everything in 44 minutes that I can give you in 36 minutes.'"

"Everybody could do a much better job on recovery, and recovery is your nutrition," he said. "When you're done with practice or a game or training, you have a 30-minute window opportunity where you can take a sports protein shake.

Your body can recover nutritionally very, very quickly, but most athletes don't like that. They just want to get out, practice, shower up and get out of there.

"Also, a lot of guys don't hydrate themselves enough after practice, training or a game. Once you start to become dehydrated, that affects your tissue, flexibility, it affects your recovery, all that stuff.

A lot of guys don't go through and re-lengthen their muscles that just got short by either training, practice or the game, so they don't stretch. While a lot of guys are pretty good about icing their knees—getting into the cryotub, sauna, whatever—most guys do not do enough flexibility and tissue laceration at the end of the session."

The bottom line is Thib's coaches an old fashioned style. Other teams and coaches are on the cutting edge of performance in today's game. It doesn't matter how many minutes the players played 20+ years ago.

Heck, we didn't have internet back then let alone the high technology of today's game. IMO, it's why we see so many acl injuries today as well cuz of the year round training. ALL THE MORE REASO to get as much rest as you can!

And if you're not getting the proper rest in today's game, you can bet the other team is!!! It has nothing to do with before, or even with injuries alone, it's about keeping up with the competition, period.

Check out this article yourself here.......

Crystallas · Mar 29, 2015

Is the Thibs debate spilling into another topic?

Bear Pride · Mar 29, 2015

Crystallas said:
Is the Thibs debate spilling into another topic?

Yes it is, sorry. I get a little frustrated when people don't realize, that no matter how they feel about it, Thib's can better in this area. My apologies. Moving on.....

Bear Pride · Mar 29, 2015

Man, the 76er's almost knocked off the Cavs for us. LJ after the said he's just glad they won so they can hold off the Bulls from gaining a game. I like it when he's thinking about us. :yep: It could get interesting for our 1st round matchup as well if we get the 3rd seed.

Miami is gaining on the Bucks and we play the Bucks on Wed. I think I'd much rather play the Bucks then Miami in the 1st. It could get interesting with 8 games to go. Also, Brooklyn moves into the 8th seed to matchup with Atlanta.

Also getting interesting in the west with the 2, 3, and 5 seeds.

#staytuned

Eastern Conference	W	L	Pct	GB	Home	Road	Conf	Div	Streak	L10
1 z-Atlanta	55	18	0.753	-	31-5	24-13	34-10	11-3	L1	5-5
2 x-Cleveland	48	27	0.640	8	27-9	21-18	30-15	8-5	W1	8-2
3 x-Chicago	45	29	0.608	10½	24-14	21-15	28-16	7-6	W3	6-4
4 y-Toronto	43	30	0.589	12	25-13	18-17	29-16	11-2	W1	5-5
5 Washington	41	33	0.554	14½	26-12	15-21	26-19	9-6	L1	5-5
6 Milwaukee	36	37	0.493	19	21-15	15-22	25-18	6-8	L1	3-7
7 Miami	34	39	0.466	21	18-18	16-21	22-22	4-10	W1	6-4
8 Brooklyn	32	40	0.444	22½	14-20	18-20	19-24	8-6	W3	7-3

Indiana	32	41	0.438	23	19-18	13-23	23-22	7-8	W1	3-7
Boston	32	41	0.438	23	18-19	14-22	20-23	10-4	L1	5-5
Charlotte	31	41	0.431	23½	17-19	14-22	23-20	8-6	W1	3-7
Detroit	28	45	0.384	27	15-21	13-24	19-24	6-7	L1	5-5
o-Orlando	22	52	0.297	33½	12-25	10-27	13-33	4-11	L3	1-9
o-Philadelphia	18	56	0.243	37½	12-25	6-31	12-33	2-13	L2	4-6
o-New York	14	60	0.189	41½	9-27	5-33	8-36	4-10	L7	1-9

Western Conference	W	L	Pct	GB	Home	Road	Conf	Div	Streak	L10
1 z-Golden St.	60	13	0.822	-	34-2	26-11	35-8	11-3	W9	9-1
2 x-Houston	50	23	0.685	10	27-10	23-13	28-17	6-6	W4	7-3
3 x-Memphis	50	24	0.676	10½	27-9	23-15	31-15	8-7	L3	5-5
4 Portland	47	25	0.653	12½	29-7	18-18	27-16	10-3	W3	5-5
5 x-L.A. Clippers	49	25	0.662	11½	27-10	22-15	30-14	9-3	W7	8-2
6 San Antonio	47	26	0.644	13	29-8	18-18	26-19	6-7	W3	7-3
7 Dallas	45	29	0.608	15½	25-12	20-17	24-20	7-8	L2	5-5
8 Oklahoma City	42	32	0.568	18½	27-9	15-23	22-23	8-6	W1	7-3

New Orleans	39	34	0.534	21	25-13	14-21	23-20	7-6	W2	5-5
Phoenix	38	36	0.514	22½	21-18	17-18	20-25	6-8	L3	5-5
o-Utah	32	41	0.438	28	18-19	14-22	17-26	6-7	W1	5-5
o-Denver	28	46	0.378	32½	17-20	11-26	17-27	6-9	L1	5-5
o-Sacramento	26	46	0.361	33½	16-21	10-25	15-27	5-9	L1	5-5
o-L.A. Lakers	19	53	0.264	40½	11-24	8-29	8-35	2-10	L2	3-7
o-Minnesota	16	57	0.219	44	9-27	7-30	7-38	4-9	L3	2-8

------------------------------------------

Scoot26 · Mar 30, 2015

Bucks remaining schedule: @Atl, Bos, Chi, Orl, Cle, NYK, Bky, Phi, Bos

Heat remaining schedule: SA, @Cle, @Det, @Ind, Cha, Chi, Tor, Orl, Phi

Bucks have the overall harder schedule. Neither team has a cakewalk though. Heat still have 2 games to make up as well.

Bear Pride · Mar 30, 2015

Scoot26 said:
Bucks remaining schedule: @Atl, Bos, Chi, Orl, Cle, NYK, Bky, Phi, Bos

Heat remaining schedule: SA, @Cle, @Det, @Ind, Cha, Chi, Tor, Orl, Phi

Bucks have the overall harder schedule. Neither team has a cakewalk though. Heat still have 2 games to make up as well.

Yeah, I was looking at that, it's gonna get interesting, imo. Both get a chance at the Cavs, and both play us. Those two games with Boston are gonna be tough for the Bucks. Wouldn't it be something if we took the 2nd seed, and the heat took the 6th?

Scoot26 · Mar 31, 2015

RamiTheBullsFan · Mar 31, 2015

Scoot26 said:
Let's be honest. Jordan wasn't burnt out on basketball at all. His father was murdered and it messed with Jordan mentally to the point he had no desire to play the game anymore. He was going to honor his father by playing baseball (since thats what his father always wanted him to do). Once Jordan spent a year and half failing miserably at doing that, he decided to return to the game he loved.

Why can't it be both? Sure, he wanted to honor his father by playing baseball. Jordan always thrived on challenges, and after winning three straight championships, Jordan was basically crowned by the fans and media as the greatest of all-time. It's not hard to believe that the most resounding challenge (Jordan's fuel) he was driven by was his father's challenge to attempt baseball.

I've heard the conspiracies about a "secret suspension" over his gambling and the possibility that James Jordan was killed by bookies for Jordan's gambling debts. Not sold on either being true. However, it would make sense that he played baseball partially because he was suspended or felt guilty over his father's death. Jordan is notorious when it comes to gambling. Who knows how far out of control the situation became...

RamiTheBullsFan · Mar 31, 2015

Bear Pride said:
I disagree, it takes a toll on your body eventually. And personally, I'm tired of people mentioning the old Bulls and especially MJ. Let's not forget that MJ took a couple years off cuz he was burnt out on basketball. :dunno: No one seems to mention that at all. Plus, the game is different today.

Jordan was not physically spent. He was mentally out of it (for whatever reasons). Big difference.

He was 30 years-old? Or 31? That's pretty much LeBron's age right now. Remember Kobe at 31? He was winning championships and lighting up dude's nightly. And he was playing big minutes for roughly 80 regular season games.

Popovich resting guys like Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili doesn't mean Thibodeau should start resting Jimmy Butler, Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson, and D-Rose (all much younger) just as frequently. Maybe Pau Gasol. But, otherwise, it is comparing apples and oranges.

Bear Pride · Mar 31, 2015

RamiTheBullsFan said:
Jordan was not physically spent. He was mentally out of it (for whatever reasons). Big difference.

He was 30 years-old? Or 31? That's pretty much LeBron's age right now. Remember Kobe at 31? He was winning championships and lighting up dude's nightly. And he was playing big minutes for roughly 80 regular season games.

Popovich resting guys like Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili doesn't mean Thibodeau should start resting Jimmy Butler, Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson, and D-Rose (all much younger) just as frequently. Maybe Pau Gasol. But, otherwise, it is comparing apples and oranges.

:smh:
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