If we don't win the cup this year...

Pez68 said:

Constantly slotting guys in the wrong roles. Overplaying washed up dinosaurs. Constant double standards. Lack of tolerance for rookies learning the game and making inevitable mistakes. Inability to coach the PP or offensive side of the game. He doesn't seem to understand at all what players fit well with other players. The constant line juggling.

Look at the Hayes brothers and Pirri. Pirri has 20 goals and 11 in his last 14. Q hated him because he was an offense first player. Hayes has 18 and was never given ANY kind of a shot on this team. The Hawks are slowly becoming a team that young offensive minded players are going to avoid like the plague.

TT on the 4th line tonight. Because he is so physical and so great defensively. Versteeg once again on the top line even though he has been fucking USELESS since Kane got hurt. Rozsival will end up playing 20+ again tonight.

Click to expand...

In ability to teach offense? The Hawks have had one of the top offenses in the league since Q took over.

He has to play those "dinosaurs" because the Hawks don't have the best of cap room to put in other players that are young but have high cap hits.

Pirri and Hayes are getting top line minutes in Florida because Florida has shit for forwards, so their the cream of the crop to them. I doubt Pirri even plays C on this team this year and Hayes would barely be a 3rd liner, if not 4th.

I'll give you the line juggling but he does so to get a spark going and find a groove. I would like to see him give lines more chance for continuity but overall I don't think it's that much of a buzzkill, especially when he's doing it to try and boost the play.

Q also doesn't run special teams as that's delegated to Kitchen and Dineen. You also don't really "coach" the offensive side of the game as that's more held to creative and situational instances.


Sent from my Texas Instrument Calculator

In regards to rookies, God forbid they have to prove themselves capable of playing a defensive game before Q trusts them with more minutes. Pirri's in zone coverage was poor, and when he's playing with Kane who is no defensive player himself, you want someone who is somewhat competent to help out defensively. Pirri wasn't doing that, and his game didn't fit a bottom six role. So we shipped him for Versteeg who will play (most of the time) and middle two lines role.


Sent from my Texas Instrument Calculator

Those top offenses have nothing to do with the offensive talent, right?

You don't coach the offensive side of the game? Zone entries, rotations, breakouts, forecheck, net presence, power play? Come on. He doesn't coach the PP because he doesn't have clue one. The Hawks are the only NHL team I have seen that CONSISTENTLY has no one-time options. How fundamental an aspect of the power play are one timers?

Trev said:

In regards to rookies, God forbid they have to prove themselves capable of playing a defensive game before Q trusts them with more minutes. Pirri's in zone coverage was poor, and when he's playing with Kane who is no defensive player himself, you want someone who is somewhat competent to help out defensively. Pirri wasn't doing that, and his game didn't fit a bottom six role. So we shipped him for Versteeg who will play (most of the time) and middle two lines role.


Sent from my Texas Instrument Calculator

Click to expand...

GOD FORBID you let guys play to their strengths and allow them to grow their two-way game. A good coach should be able to do that right? Line matchups, offensive zone starts? VERY few guys come into the NHL with a strong two-way game. Especially offensively talented players.

If top prospects are going to be on the NHL roster you give them minutes and play them in a role that plays to their strengths. Nobody learns playing 7 minutes a night.

Pez68 said:

Those top offenses have nothing to do with the offensive talent, right?

You don't coach the offensive side of the game? Zone entries, rotations, breakouts, forecheck, net presence, power play? Come on. He doesn't coach the PP because he doesn't have clue one. The Hawks are the only NHL team I have seen that CONSISTENTLY has no one-time options. How fundamental an aspect of the power play are one timers?

Click to expand...

Be more specific next time than "offensive side" as that just sounds like what to do in the offensive zone with the puck.

Please provide what Q coaches the team to do offensively because you literally don't know. I mean, I see plenty of puck movement getting into the zone and inside the zone. I see plenty of the D jumping in down and taking the puck down low and rotating with the forwards at even strength.

Zone entries? It's fucking simple. Chip and chase if you have no room, or take it in to the zone if you have space. I've also seen the Hawks regroup plenty of times with no space a head of them.


Sent from my Texas Instrument Calculator

I know what I see. I know the Hawks don't use the middle of the ice at all in the offensive zone. Their cycle doesn't move anyone into the slot. Everything is along the boards. I know the Hawks run a weak ass, passive 1-2-2 forecheck unless they are down big. I know they sit back way too much and give the opposition way too much room. I know their PP setups and zone entries are god awful. I know wingers collapse way too low in the defensive zone which leads to their chasing the puck and getting stuck in the D zone. I know their forwards bail too quickly which gives the D no option other than dumping the puck in on the neutral zone breakout.

DMelt36 said:

Well, I think there's far more than just one reason. But I don't think Q has been helping matters at all by hitting his patented line blender seemingly after every game they lose.

Click to expand...

There may be more then 1 problem But..

Toews 2 games in last 12 lighting the lamp

Hossa 5 games in last 14 lighting the lamp

Sharp 4 games in last 34 lighting the lamp

Those 3 not scoring puts alot of pressure on Defense and Goalies and that been their biggest problem. ..

Pez68 said:

I know what I see. I know the Hawks don't use the middle of the ice at all in the offensive zone. Their cycle doesn't move anyone into the slot. Everything is along the boards. I know the Hawks run a weak ass, passive 1-2-2 forecheck unless they are down big. I know they sit back way too much and give the opposition way too much room. I know their PP setups and zone entries are god awful. I know wingers collapse way too low in the defensive zone which leads to their chasing the puck and getting stuck in the D zone. I know their forwards bail too quickly which gives the D no option other than dumping the puck in on the neutral zone breakout.

Click to expand...

I don't disagree with the lack of mid ice attack, as they play too much on the perimeter.

Wingers collapse low due to the sagging in zone defense, which many teams in the league do.

Hawks need to add another big body or two at forward who is willing to take the puck to the middle of the ice and to the net. Bickell should, but doesn't. Would of been nice if Beach had panned out.


Sent from my Texas Instrument Calculator

Except other teams collapse the wings into the middle of the ice so you at least block some shots. Hawks collapse into the corners...

Pez68 said:

Except other teams collapse the wings into the middle of the ice so you at least block some shots. Hawks collapse into the corners...

Click to expand...

I think their philosophy on it is they'd rather see the shot from the point then have the puck carrier sneak out from the corner and take it to the slot.


Sent from my Texas Instrument Calculator

Keith and Seabs were Tallon's doing?? ity:

Not at all... Tallon has outside of his top 3 of the draft picks, including both Chicago and Florida so far, been an absent and shameful drafter. Really Hammer and Kruger are the only Tallon players that have been able to it as good finds. If you would try to say Tallon could of had some impact as asstiant GM in those prelockout year drafts I'd think that's reaching. If you went there you'd have to acknowledge Stan was a significant member in the Front Office at that point too

If anything, it seems people put too much on him that ways. Tradewise he gets good value and has made mostly beneficial trades his career but that and not grabbing the poor top 3 choices are his only real recorded positives.

What about Nordstrom? As a young player Q sure has screwed him over by not playing him. (Dont get me started on this though but i bet in 2 years time fans start loving him)

What about TVR? Q seemed to like him enough to give him a spot out of camp and rolled with him until he was injured. Looked like TVR was going to be sending one of the vets to the pressbox for the entire season.

What about Morin? Q gave him endless chances to prove himself and Morin blew it by looking uninterested in proving his worth or desire to put a defensive mind set into his play. Morin screwed Morin.

What about Kruger? Hes a great example of a guy Q stuck with and coached at the NHL level getting his game adjusted to his current role. And like a champ Kruger actually worked hard and didnt fucking whine about his slot allocations while going through the nhl grooming process. Guy turned i to one hell of a good defensive forward and a pk specialist which is what has kept him in the NHL this long.

What about Saad? Q has been very patient with his development since day 1 and has given that guy massive minutes and confidence boosts at times. Still does and i am not even sure if Saad has earned it that often but w dont need to get into that any more.

Pirri had a lot of chances also..and im a Pirri fan...we never got the real reasons why he was traded only rumors of that dressing room problems stuff. I can guess that Q didnt like his 2 way game either as Q is a 2 way player guy much like Babcock whom is actually more of a two way stickler than Q. Anyways Pirri did get his chances. Perhaps not enough even for my tastes but we never got the real story behind him being delt even if there is a story to begin with.

Dylan Olsen was getting more and more time with the Hawks before he was delt by Stan. Looked like Q was buying into Olsen at the time also

Leddy was no vet when he came on the team and he also was given solid ice time for a green guy who made a lot of mistakes. Q may have benched him here and there but he never fucking threw him under the bus and was pretty fucking patient with him also. Leddy fucked up a lot in the playoffs..Q benched him for a vet here and there..end of story. Doesnt mean Q hated Leddy. But I am sure Q told Stan to deal Leddy because that is what Q does apparently

Q sure does hate that Scott Darling guy to the point where he would even have his back up for the last couple years sent down to rockford in exchange for an unproven goalie. Hell Raanta was unproven once himself and Q had no issues playing him when needed.

I could go on and on here. But i buy into this Q doesnt like rookies or young players as much as I buy into 9/11 conspiracy theories. Love how some people ignore the larger pool of examples that trump their theories and just sit on the very small numbers of examples that support their stupid theories.

ClydeLee said:

Keith and Seabs were Tallon's doing?? ity:

Not at all... Tallon has outside of his top 3 of the draft picks, including both Chicago and Florida so far, been an absent and shameful drafter. Really Hammer and Kruger are the only Tallon players that have been able to it as good finds. If you would try to say Tallon could of had some impact as asstiant GM in those prelockout year drafts I'd think that's reaching. If you went there you'd have to acknowledge Stan was a significant member in the Front Office at that point too

If anything, it seems people put too much on him that ways. Tradewise he gets good value and has made mostly beneficial trades his career but that and not grabbing the poor top 3 choices are his only real recorded positives.

Click to expand...

Stans drafting hasnt been lights out yet either but given he is still young in his gm role with the club and his drafted players arent even close to proper development yet to make any rational judgement. But going just on the draft picks he made playing on the Hawks currently. Saad, Shaw and TT. And maybe Nordstrom? I cant remember who drafted Nordstrom.

I dont really know why the dale vs stan conversation even comes up anymore. Stan did have the luxury of walking onto a team with good talent but he also walked onto a team with a cap mess and did very well to correct it as head of management..again he isnt the only body in the office. Dale had the luxury later in his tenor to have an owner open up his pocket books and spend which dale did fairly well lol..sometimes too well. He also did indeed have the luxury of great high picks. But some tend to forget this...while Kane was an obvious first overall ( despite some real idiots who suggested Turris was the safer pick)....Toews at the time wasnt a sure fire bet to be drafted 3rd overall. A lot of scouting reports had Backstrom ahead of him some even had Kessel ahead of him. Some had Toews ranked second above Jordan Staal.

I forgot my train of thought i just looked at that draft year again and imagined toews crosby and malkin on the same team had the pens went with toews instead of staal. Pens would have been stupid good until cap hit hell. imagine being able to rotate toews and crosby at center!! And imagine if the pens still had hossa also. Toews, hossa, crosby, malkin. Just for one year a lone that would have been disgusting.

Stupid going through old draft years

I don't think it's stupid going through old draft years, because fans have some love affair with late round picks, then flip their shit when they're (the picks) traded away. A few years back the Hawks unloaded a 4th and some fans were going batshit. I had to dig, but two of the most recent 4th round picks that panned out and were a positive were Hammer in '05 and Daze in 1993.
The only other late rounder that's made serious noise was Buff (round 8).

Once round 3 begins, all 30 teams are probably drafting with darts and a case of Blue.

Sorry to interrupt here, but I'm very concerned. Has anyone seen Mr. Couch since the merge with CCS?

Mr. who?

Mr. Mr? Weren't they some 80s pop band?

BlackHawkPaul said:

I don't think it's stupid going through old draft years, because fans have some love affair with late round picks, then flip their shit when they're (the picks) traded away. A few years back the Hawks unloaded a 4th and some fans were going batshit. I had to dig, but two of the most recent 4th round picks that panned out and were a positive were Hammer in '05 and Daze in 1993.
The only other late rounder that's made serious noise was Buff (round 8).

Once round 3 begins, all 30 teams are probably drafting with darts and a case of Blue.

Click to expand...

Lol pretty much. Most of the draft is hit and miss. I know of no teams that are a roster full of nothing but 3 rd round picks. Oilers are the only team i know of that is just top heavy loaded with high first round picks and look at how well that has worked out for them. Given maybe they should have used a couple of those high picks for trade bait or to pick a blueliner or two (even though that Nurse kid is going to be a stud).

I do like going through past drafts just to refresh myself on how old and young some of these guys are and what the hockey climate was around those draft years. Going back to toews year...defensive hockey was hot in the air looking at the draft esp when a blueliner goes first overall then two defensive forwards go next. Dont often see that (fatty kessel ruined it though). I actually like Toews draft year its an interesting draft class and a lot of first rounders came out of if being active nhl roster players. Thats rare also.

TCD said:

Mr. Mr? Weren't they some 80s pop band?

Click to expand...

You're thinking of The The. :elephant:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_The

BlackHawkPaul said:

Mr. who?

Click to expand...

Fixed it, it is Mr. couch.