My final verdict on Shane Ray

BearsFan51

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This is a guy that's not hard to pin down at all. The question is how worthy is he of being the seventh overall pick in this draft and can he be a game changer?

Strengths:

I'm still in absolute awe every time I watch this kid 's first step explosion. At times he just whips around dudes before they're even out of their stance. That type of first step explosion is rare, it's some of the best I've seen in the last five years. His first step is something he can convert to power because when at OT is cheating outside he can get him off balance in the OTs base and beat him with power. His speed to power conversion ratio is also elite, he need only to learn to use it more consistently as another weapon. Ray's closing speed and pursuit are also elite probably the best in this draft.

Ray also plays with tremendous leverage in the run game often beating the blocker to the point, so much so that he gets away with average hand use. He has a tremendous inside rip move. His change of direction and inside jab step are also elite. He shows potential in coverage, though as Ryan. Pace stated zone coverage isn't as big of a priority.

I watched Terell Suggs play every snap in person at ASU, and each and every snap he played, he played as an undersized defensive end. Suggs obviously has developed into a NFLDPOY. Suggs had to develop his game in each and every way Ray would have to. I don't know if Ray can become Suggs, but that's a template for a guy who didn't play a down as a linebacker who became a stud OLB.

There are signs of the potential to develop with more reps.

Weaknesses:

Ray may be maxed out athletically, at least he looks that way on tape. I don't know if he'll grow much more from a muscular standpoint. Gregory is a guy you expect to be able to add more weight to his frame, Ray I'm not certain he will get much above 255 thought that may be plenty. Ray is not a fluid athlete like Dupree or Beasely. He's not going to back pedal and transition well likely a safety or other zone linebacker. He's not lost in coverage but coverage is not a strength. But will that be his role in this defense? Probably not and I think it's key not to over analyze how fluid an athlete he needs to be. It's a desirable quality but not a necessity.

Suggs had three years and 44 sacks in those three years, 10 as a true freshman who converted from a prep RB, added another 10 and then exploded for 24 sacks as a true junior. Ray has one year as a starter, but did well against some solid competition is that enough to project him going forward? I want to see more hand use from Ray, more bullying the blocker a hump move extension to keep the blocker out of his body. An ability to transition back inside using his hands as his primary weapon.

Sometimes I wonder if a Ray is too much of a one-dimensional rusher because he so often wins with his first step outside rush move. He does have the jab step, but overall I'd like to see a more complete product. Obviously all these can be taught though it may be a hard habit to break.

I think the thing I like most from Ray is despite his reliance on speed he never seems to be overwhelmed or engulfed by the blocker. He shows some ability to stand up and go man to man with anyone. It's not something he does often but he can win those battles with his smart leverage.

Overall if he's the pick at seven I won't be disappointed with the pick. I'll nod my head and look forward to day two.
 

Bearly

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I'll be disappointed. I don't see much special in him though i think he'll be good.
 

TheDane

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My verdict: He has a Peyton Manning'ish long forehead. Do not want.
 

Smokey Robinson

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Fair assessment. I would be pumped with Ray for many of the reasons you mentioned above. I think when you are evaluating edge rushers, or any prospect for that matter, you will obviously find weaknesses but for Ray his shortcomings are all correctable.

The things you can't teach are what excites me about Ray. He has rare traits that simply can't be taught. He has the elite snap anticipation, get-off, closing speed and speed to power you want to see. He has enough length to keep blockers at bay and maintain leverage which is something you touched on but just to elaborate when watching tape on Ray even when an OT has his hands on Ray you see the ability to use his arms to create separation and the ability to maintain leverage allowing him to stay with the play rather than getting engulfed.

Another thing you touched on is fluidity in drops and coverage and I think you hit the nail on the head, would you like to see elite coverage ability, sure, but is it needed in Fangio's system, most definitely not. If Ray was drafted to the Bears he would take on the Aldon Smith role and pin his ears back and go get it and as far as that is concerned Ray is IMO by far the best in the class.
 

Bort

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even when an OT has his hands on Ray you see the ability to use his arms to create separation and the ability to maintain leverage allowing him to stay with the play rather than getting engulfed.

That's why I love his game so much. I've posted in a bunch of other threads that I have a huge mancrush on Ray and I think he's probably the second best overall defensive prospect in the draft. And it's not primarily because of the sacks or his explosiveness, it's because of how physical and instinctive he is. It's plays like this that give me a Rayrection (just watch him shove the 300-pound lineman out of the way and make the tackle):

kqNYdQd.gif


He also tackles well in space, which I don't see a lot of people mention about him.

EDIT: I quoted the wrong part of the post
 

BearDown104

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That's why I love his game so much. I've posted in a bunch of other threads that I have a huge mancrush on Ray and I think he's probably the second best overall defensive prospect in the draft. And it's not primarily because of the sacks or his explosiveness, it's because of how physical and instinctive he is. It's plays like this that give me a Rayrection (just watch him shove the 300-pound lineman out of the way and make the tackle):

kqNYdQd.gif


He also tackles well in space, which I don't see a lot of people mention about him.

EDIT: I quoted the wrong part of the post

Too bad he can't play IU in the NFL.
 

Wild_x_Card

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Solid write up. If Pace is true to his word he'll have no problem pulling the trigger on Ray at 7. Because his tape is far better than his underwear workouts would indicate.

This team needs an infusion of true no nonsense tough, physical, instinctive football players that play with an edge and a non stop motor . Ray definitely fits the mold.
 

WindyCity

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Fine player.

Not worth the 7th pick.
 

ZenBear34

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i keep trying to see something special about ray but whenever i watch him i don't see it. he's stiff and tight hipped. he doesn't play with any power. i love his quickness and motor but i honestly think he's a 2nd round prospect. i don't see anything in his game or athletic make up that says elite top 10 pick. i see a great college player but projecting him to the next level i don't see anything more then a situational pass rusher.
 

theOHIOSTATE!

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Very stiff and somewhat limited athletically compared to the other elite edge guys in the draft. Doesn't have much room for growth physically in my opinion. Smallish lower body/posterior and overbuilt upper body. Violent strong hands with good functional upper body power to disengage. Good speed, can beat elite guys around the edge at times but nowhere close to Vic in this dept/. Plays like an alpha with bad intentions. Not 100 percent engaged on running plays and or limited motor at times in pursuit.
Plays like a bully and effectively bullies outmatched OLman, but doesn't really show the ability to do that against NFL type talent consistently with his size/lower body power limitations.

Video of Ray versus Humphries 1 on 1 most of the snaps. He pads sack stats in what was effectively garbage time, but outside maybe 4-5 snaps he is dominated somewhat by a very young, still developing NFL talent; he does have his moments though:

https://youtu.be/JRrM08N038c
 

knoxville7

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Very stiff and somewhat limited athletically compared to the other elite edge guys in the draft. Doesn't have much room for growth physically in my opinion. Smallish lower body/posterior and overbuilt upper body. Violent strong hands with good functional upper body power to disengage. Good speed, can beat elite guys around the edge at times but nowhere close to Vic in this dept/. Plays like an alpha with bad intentions. Not 100 percent engaged on running plays and or limited motor at times in pursuit.
Plays like a bully and effectively bullies outmatched OLman, but doesn't really show the ability to do that against NFL type talent consistently with his size/lower body power limitations.

Video of Ray versus Humphries 1 on 1 most of the snaps. He pads sack stats in what was effectively garbage time, but outside maybe 4-5 snaps he is dominated somewhat by a very young, still developing NFL talent; he does have his moments though:

https://youtu.be/JRrM08N038c

agreed. and keep in mind floridas offense in general was a mess last year. they had O linemen blocking other O linemen :lol:
 

knoxville7

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How quickly people forget...

zmizzoutd.gif

so because he scooped up a loose football and ran with it 25 yards im supposed to be impressed? lol
 

Smokey Robinson

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so because he scooped up a loose football and ran with it 25 yards im supposed to be impressed? lol

That is Sam scooping the Ball. Ray was in the backfield, on his way to a strip sack, before most players were out of their stance
 

knoxville7

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That is Sam scooping the Ball. Ray was in the backfield before most players were out of their stance.

ahhh got ya, hard to see. that was also in 2013, not 2014...different Georgia team
 

RacerX

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that's because he is a nobody....indianas LT aint anywhere near NFL caliber. its the games he had against Georgia, Arkansas, etc....teams with solid O lines that worries me

That was the same concern I voiced over drafting Will Sutton last year, while he is hardly a bust we could have done better with that #3 pick.
 

knoxville7

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That was the same concern I voiced over drafting Will Sutton last year, while he is hardly a bust we could have done better with that #3 pick.

taking a gamble in the 3rd round on a guy is a lot diff then doing so in the early first round IMO though
 

MrOuija

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ahhh got ya, hard to see. that was also in 2013, not 2014...different Georgia team

You're sure putting alot of qualifiers on who is and who isn't decent competition. Seems pretty arbitrary. A play against IU doesn't matter. A play against Georgia matters, but only in 2014, and only if you realize its a sack and not a 25 yd TD fumble recovery. A good play is a good play period, NFL players come from all over.
 

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