Cubs call up Addison Russell to majors

Boobaby1 said:

Would love to see Edwards and Underwood start to really blossom into everyday pitchers. If we can get them to develop properly, the Cubs can hunt and peck for TOR starters down the road.

The payroll flexibility should allow them to virtually spend money on any player, and also, guys will want to play for the Cubs instead of playing for every team BUT the Cubs. :fap:

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It'll be interesting to see what teams are shit in a month. With Baez, Alcantara(sigh), Vogelbach, McKinney and numerous other players lacking a chance to start they have the ammo to make a franchise changing trade. That's why I don't want to see Cole Hamels really. He's fine and all but there's very little chance he's going to be better than he has been and in fact probably will get worse. I'd love to see them throw the world of prospect at someone like Julio Teheran. If you were to offer up something like Baez, Edwards or Johnson, and Vogelbach that would start to get pretty interesting for most teams. And from the cubs standpoint, while Vogelbach and Baez may be really solid prospects they are seemingly not really useful to them. And honestly the cubs have more players they could feasibly add if needed.

With some of their lower level players like Underwood and Turner who's rehabbing atm, I feel their 4-5 pitchers should be easy to fill going forward. That's why I'd like to see them go aggressive for some really talented young pitcher who you can slot behind vets like Lester and Arrieta and who can eventually grow into an ace. To me I don't really see that trading a some what similar level of prospects for Hamels makes sense because sure he's good for the next 2-3 years but then what? I'd rather spend possibly even more on someone younger.

Exciting times. Until a week ago I would have never dreamed they would have called up Russell before his Super Two date, but after the move to second, seeing how the team was playing and seeing that the landscape in the National league just might make the Cubs a contender I started thinking a little differently. I've thought of this as a transition year, I've tried not to worry about wins and losses (that's been getting harder to do) and kept trying to tell myself 2016 is the year. I figured Bryant would struggle (and he still might) and that this was a .500 team at best. Well...not so fast. This team is trying to win now. There might not be quite enough there but trades are possible someone mentioned Vogelbach and the way he's hitting he'd be attractive in a trade and the Cubs have a decision on him soon. He'll be rule 5 eligible if he's not on the 40 man next off season. Of course there are other moves that might work. Bringing up Russell, albeit out of need, shows that these guys think winning is possible and they'll let these kids try, however unlikely. Screw it, forget development, forget 2016 GO CUBS!

beckdawg said:

It'll be interesting to see what teams are shit in a month. With Baez, Alcantara(sigh), Vogelbach, McKinney and numerous other players lacking a chance to start they have the ammo to make a franchise changing trade. That's why I don't want to see Cole Hamels really. He's fine and all but there's very little chance he's going to be better than he has been and in fact probably will get worse. I'd love to see them throw the world of prospect at someone like Julio Teheran. If you were to offer up something like Baez, Edwards or Johnson, and Vogelbach that would start to get pretty interesting for most teams. And from the cubs standpoint, while Vogelbach and Baez may be really solid prospects they are seemingly not really useful to them. And honestly the cubs have more players they could feasibly add if needed.

With some of their lower level players like Underwood and Turner who's rehabbing atm, I feel their 4-5 pitchers should be easy to fill going forward. That's why I'd like to see them go aggressive for some really talented young pitcher who you can slot behind vets like Lester and Arrieta and who can eventually grow into an ace. To me I don't really see that trading a some what similar level of prospects for Hamels makes sense because sure he's good for the next 2-3 years but then what? I'd rather spend possibly even more on someone younger.

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The problem with 2 WC teams now is that teams think they're in it it longer than they are. I still think the Divisions in the NL are clear St. Louis, LA and Washington should win easily despite the Nationals slow start. Obviously the Mets, Cubs, Padres and Cubs are the WC contenders. John Hart is a smart man so maybe Atlanta shouldn't be completely counted out but they need bats. In the AL It almost looks like everyone's in it and it might take a while to sort that out, but there will be deals. There always are.

TC in Mississippi said:

The problem with 2 WC teams now is that teams think they're in it it longer than they are. I still think the Divisions in the NL are clear St. Louis, LA and Washington should win easily despite the Nationals slow start. Obviously the Mets, Cubs, Padres and Cubs are the WC contenders. John Hart is a smart man so maybe Atlanta shouldn't be completely counted out but they need bats. In the AL It almost looks like everyone's in it and it might take a while to sort that out, but there will be deals. There always are.

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In ref to Hart, not saying it had to be Teheran specifically just someone like him who's younger. As for the additionally wild card slots, I'm not entirely sure that matters for the trade I'm suggesting. I think it matters more for teams who are in a situation similar to the cubs last year with Shark nearing FA. To pull of a trade for someone like Teheran you essentially have to find someone who presently stinks and knows they are going to continue to stink for a couple of years else why get rid of a young player? Tampa strikes me as a team that could be in this situation. Oakland if things turn south might be as well. Possibly Miami though it feels weird saying that given they massive deal they just gave Stanton. There's probably a few more teams I'm missing here.

beckdawg said:

In ref to Hart, not saying it had to be Teheran specifically just someone like him who's younger. As for the additionally wild card slots, I'm not entirely sure that matters for the trade I'm suggesting. I think it matters more for teams who are in a situation similar to the cubs last year with Shark nearing FA. To pull of a trade for someone like Teheran you essentially have to find someone who presently stinks and knows they are going to continue to stink for a couple of years else why get rid of a young player? Tampa strikes me as a team that could be in this situation. Oakland if things turn south might be as well. Possibly Miami though it feels weird saying that given they massive deal they just gave Stanton. There's probably a few more teams I'm missing here.

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To me Oakland is intriguing. Are they contenders? If they're not with this oddly built club when will they be next? If they fall out of the race what then? Billy Beane is said to like Gleyber Torres and would like Billy McKinney back. Is that a starting base for a trade for Sonny Gray who the Cubs covet?

The problem is the AL West may be a quagmire for a long time. Heck even the Astros don't look to go away soon. It'll be interesting to see what plays out.

Alcantara was sent to Iowa to make room for Russell. ...

I said back in ST that I wouldn't be surprised if Alcantara went back to Iowa..

I said it again the other day....

Since his first month, alcantara been a sinking ship at the plate.. despite being able to play multiple positions, he still needs to be able to handle the bat. .walks or no walks..

chibears55 said:

Alcantara was sent to Iowa to make room for Russell. ...

I said back in ST that I wouldn't be surprised if Alcantara went back to Iowa..

I said it again the other day....

Since his first month, alcantara been a sinking ship at the plate.. despite being able to play multiple positions, he still needs to be able to handle the bat. .walks or no walks..

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Sadly I was wrong about him in so far as him tearing it up this year. Still love his potential though. However, unless it's at CF i'm not sure he's long for the team unless it's a bench role. It's really a shame they didn't have him in the majors a year or two earlier to allow him to grow a bit rather than having others bearing down on him.

beckdawg said:

Sadly I was wrong about him in so far as him tearing it up this year. Still love his potential though. However, unless it's at CF i'm not sure he's long for the team unless it's a bench role. It's really a shame they didn't have him in the majors a year or two earlier to allow him to grow a bit rather than having others bearing down on him.

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Im not counting out a return at some point, because he does have the tools and is baseball smart. .

He just needs to get a bunch of ABs and find his groove again. .

Im shocked. I never thought we would see Russell this early. I though late season call up or maybe an injury call up later in the season. We will see what he can do.

Also, on a side note. I wouldnt count out Baez coming back up this year yet. Its completely on him and how he adjust's but I still think the Cubs would like to put Bryant in left before its done. He has already shown signs that he is not a very good third baseman. He looks very slow to bunts and still has trouble making throws to first. Strong arm just not very accurate.

SilenceS said:

Also, on a side note. I wouldnt count out Baez coming back up this year yet. Its completely on him and how he adjust's but I still think the Cubs would like to put Bryant in left before its done. He has already shown signs that he is not a very good third baseman. He looks very slow to bunts and still has trouble making throws to first. Strong arm just not very accurate.

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I mean I know I'm down on Baez comparative to you but I feel like if you're making this move with Russell it's to win now. As such, even if Baez turns thing around I feel like he's probably more valuable as a way to leverage prospects for pitching. Simply put, if people are confident that Baez is a actually the top 10 talent he was named, he is one of the few players the cubs can use to get a legitimate franchise pitcher. I'd argue at the moment Schwarber is the only other player they have like that. Almora + Edwards might get you a decent #2 in trade but I'd really doubt it'd pull more than that. Sure Baez might lose you some offense but if Russell and the rest of the young players are the real deal as long whoever replaces him isn't Darwin Barney levels of bad I would argue the player Baez can return is worth more to the team. You're probably talking about Bryant, Russell, Castro, Soler, and Rizzo all being 115+ wRC+ types or close to that. That's half your line up being 15% better than the average player at their position. So, while it's fun to think of Baez's potential with that I sort of think it's over kill to be quite honest.

beckdawg said:

I mean I know I'm down on Baez comparative to you but I feel like if you're making this move with Russell it's to win now. As such, even if Baez turns thing around I feel like he's probably more valuable as a way to leverage prospects for pitching. Simply put, if people are confident that Baez is a actually the top 10 talent he was named, he is one of the few players the cubs can use to get a legitimate franchise pitcher. I'd argue at the moment Schwarber is the only other player they have like that. Almora + Edwards might get you a decent #2 in trade but I'd really doubt it'd pull more than that. Sure Baez might lose you some offense but if Russell and the rest of the young players are the real deal as long whoever replaces him isn't Darwin Barney levels of bad I would argue the player Baez can return is worth more to the team. You're probably talking about Bryant, Russell, Castro, Soler, and Rizzo all being 115+ wRC+ types or close to that. That's half your line up being 15% better than the average player at their position. So, while it's fun to think of Baez's potential with that I sort of think it's over kill to be quite honest.

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There are some younger prospects that might be very attractive in trade. Billy Beane is said to want Billy McKinney back and he'll be attractive to other teams as well. Gleyber Torres is likely to be a top 100 player by next spring and as a SS could be very valuable in a trade package. Vogelbach is looking close to ready as a power hitter and one way or another will likely not be a Cub after this season as he'll be Rule 5 eligible if not added to the 40 man. In other words he'll be offered when trades are discussed and since he's obviously an AL player he'll likely go. There are some other players in the system that might be attractive to other teams as well.

I guess the reason I mention all this is not because I'd have a problem trading Baez but rather because this young man's immediate future is in a lot of doubt. He lost his MLB gig and right after, and more importantly, lost his beloved sister. Tough times for a very young person. It might take him a while to get into playing shape mentally and physically. Or maybe it won't. the point is we don't know and it might be in the Cubs best interest to hang on to him, let him make some changes and work his way back as opposed to selling low in a trade. There are other options.

beckdawg said:

I mean I know I'm down on Baez comparative to you but I feel like if you're making this move with Russell it's to win now. As such, even if Baez turns thing around I feel like he's probably more valuable as a way to leverage prospects for pitching. Simply put, if people are confident that Baez is a actually the top 10 talent he was named, he is one of the few players the cubs can use to get a legitimate franchise pitcher. I'd argue at the moment Schwarber is the only other player they have like that. Almora + Edwards might get you a decent #2 in trade but I'd really doubt it'd pull more than that. Sure Baez might lose you some offense but if Russell and the rest of the young players are the real deal as long whoever replaces him isn't Darwin Barney levels of bad I would argue the player Baez can return is worth more to the team. You're probably talking about Bryant, Russell, Castro, Soler, and Rizzo all being 115+ wRC+ types or close to that. That's half your line up being 15% better than the average player at their position. So, while it's fun to think of Baez's potential with that I sort of think it's over kill to be quite honest.

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They aren't going to trade Edwards to get a pitcher.

So I was going to reiterate my point about the wRC+ overkill but I may have made a mess in my pants. Before I go into this I just want to point out that a 24 year old Rizzo last season had a 153 wRC+ and thus far has a 146 this year. A 24 year old Castro had a 115 last year and a 116 thus far this year. Soler between 22-23 over 152 PAs has 146. So while Russell and Bryant might be a bit of guess work those 3 have a pretty solid footing.

Let's get stupid. Top 5 teams since 1980 in runs scored.
1999 Indians(1009 runs)
C - Einar Diaz(76 wRC+)
1B - Jim Thome(142 wRC+)
2B - Roberto Alomar(142 wRC+)
SS - Omar Vizquel(115 wRC+)
3B - Travis Fryman(78 wRC+ over 350 PAs)/Enrique Wilson(66 wRC+ 368 PAs)
OF - Manny Ramirez(172 wRC+)
OF - Kenny Lofton(118 wRC+)
OF - Richie Sexson(98 wRC+)
DH - David Justice(125 wRC+)

1996 Mariners(993 runs)
C - Dan Wilson(93 wRC+)
1B - Paul Sorrento(116 wRC+)
2B - Joey Cora(91 wRC+)
SS - Alex Rodriguez(159 wRC+)
3B - Luis Sojo(28 wRC+ in 264 PAs)/Doug Strange(58 wRC+ in 200 PAs)
OF - Jay Buhner(127 wRC+)
OF - Ken Griffey Jr.(146 wRC+)
OF - Rich Amaral(99 wRC+ in 369 PAs)/Darren Bragg(107 wRC+ in 235 PAs)
DH - Edgar Martinez(163 wRC+)

2000 White Sox(978 runs)
C - Mark Johnson(64 wRC+ in 251 PAs)/Charles Johnson(153 wRC+ in 158 PAs)
1B - Paul Konerko(113 wRC+)
2B - Ray Durham(105 wRC+)
SS - Jose Valentin(107 wRC+)
3B - Herbert Perry(110 wRC+)
OF - Magglio Ordonez(125 wRC+)
OF - Chris Singleton(69 wRC+)
OF - Carlos Lee(106 wRC+)
DH - Frank Thomas(160 wRC+)

2007 Yankees(968 runs)
C - Jorge Posada(157 wRC+)
1B - Andy Phillips(90 wRC+ in 207 PAs)/Doug Mientkiewicz(110 wRC+ in 192 PAs)
2B - Robinson Cano(119 wRC+)
SS - Derek Jeter(125 wRC+)
3B - Alex Rodriguez(175 wRC+)
OF - Bobby Abreu(117 wRC+)
OF - Melky Cabrera(89 wRC+)
OF - Hideki Matsui(124 wRC+)
DH - Johnny Damon(100 wRC+ in 605 PAs)/Jason Giambi(111 wRC+ in 303 PAs)

2000 Rockies(968 runs)
C - Brent Mayne(76 wRC+)
1B - Todd Helton(162 wRC+)
2B - Mike Lansing(61 wRC+)
SS - Neifi Perez(59 wRC+)
3B - Jeff Cirillo(99 wRC+)
OF - Jeffrey Hammonds(110 wRC+)
OF - Tom Goodwin(75 wRC+ in 377 PAs)/Brian Hunter(54 wRC+ in 226)
OF - Larry Walker(110 wRC+ in 372 PAs)/Terry Shumpert(77 wRC+ in 300 PAs)

It's really absurd to think how many runs this team might score if all goes according to plan with Rizzo, Castro, Bryant, Soler and Russell.

Parade_Rain said:

They aren't going to trade Edwards to get a pitcher.

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You're not following. I wasn't saying they were going to. My point was that Almora and Edwards don't equate #1 starter in terms of trade value.

beckdawg said:

You're not following. I wasn't saying they were going to. My point was that Almora and Edwards don't equate #1 starter in terms of trade value.

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No, Castro's ideal worth is a #1 starter straight up but much of the rest of the league doesn't see it that way and the way the national media portrays Starlin, witnessed again by the ridiculous Harold Reynolds last night who said that with Russell coming up teh Cubs had to trade Castro because they're "not built to win", but I digress. Bottom line is the Cubs aren't going to trade Castro and other teams are unlikely to offer a TOR pitcher for him even though that should be the price. If they a target a pitcher it's going to have to be a package of guys and maybe even a multiple team trade. Almora, McKinney, Vogelbach, Gleyber Torres or maybe a lesser guy like Chriatian Villanueva could be part of a package. Baez sure could be but I'm not sure they'll sell this low on him given that he's 22 years old.

TC in Mississippi said:

Baez sure could be but I'm not sure they'll sell this low on him given that he's 22 years old.

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Well keep in mind my comment was in reference to SilenceS saying he thought Baez still had a shot with the team. Basically what I'm saying is this. If Baez rebounds it makes more sense to trade him because he by far can get you the most value and obviously if Russell is what he appears to be Baez is redundant. Any two lessor prospects be it Almora/Johnson/Edwards or whomever in combo don't get you someone like Chris Sale just to throw a name out there. Almora + one other top 100 guy might get you Mat Latos this coming trade deadline. Latos is more of a quality 2 IMO than a prototypical "ace."

Given that, I think it makes far more sense to trade Baez rather than likely 5-6 guys if they end up targeting an "ace" like you would expect. With Baez it might be something like Baez + Johnson + Vogelbach rather than something crazy with most of the rest of the farm system for one guy.

beckdawg said:

Well keep in mind my comment was in reference to SilenceS saying he thought Baez still had a shot with the team. Basically what I'm saying is this. If Baez rebounds it makes more sense to trade him because he by far can get you the most value and obviously if Russell is what he appears to be Baez is redundant. Any two lessor prospects be it Almora/Johnson/Edwards or whomever in combo don't get you someone like Chris Sale just to throw a name out there. Almora + one other top 100 guy might get you Mat Latos this coming trade deadline. Latos is more of a quality 2 IMO than a prototypical "ace."

Given that, I think it makes far more sense to trade Baez rather than likely 5-6 guys if they end up targeting an "ace" like you would expect. With Baez it might be something like Baez + Johnson + Vogelbach rather than something crazy with most of the rest of the farm system for one guy.

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I guess I'm expecting Baez to struggle for a little while. The guy has a had a rough few weeks and his value has never been lower. There are GM's out there that love him and might see now as the time to buy low, but I don't think the Cubs do that. If they get value, no problem. It might take a while to build that value. If I wer to guess on the prospects that might be traded this year I'd say Vogelbach is most likely, McKinney is pretty likely and everything else is a crap shoot based on who the other GM's like in the system.

TC in Mississippi said:

I guess I'm expecting Baez to struggle for a little while. The guy has a had a rough few weeks and his value has never been lower. There are GM's out there that love him and might see now as the time to buy low, but I don't think the Cubs do that. If they get value, no problem. It might take a while to build that value. If I wer to guess on the prospects that might be traded this year I'd say Vogelbach is most likely, McKinney is pretty likely and everything else is a crap shoot based on who the other GM's like in the system.

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I'm not really expecting much out of Baez obviously based on previous comments. I doubt they'd trade low like you're saying. But I also think that there's a finite limit to what teams can get in terms of trades. Case in point the reason Hamels hasn't been traded. And as we saw with Olt in the Garza trade even fallen stars have value. Olt was only ever top 30 prospect IIRC where as Baez obviously was top 10 at one point.

beckdawg said:

I'm not really expecting much out of Baez obviously based on previous comments. I doubt they'd trade low like you're saying. But I also think that there's a finite limit to what teams can get in terms of trades. Case in point the reason Hamels hasn't been traded. And as we saw with Olt in the Garza trade even fallen stars have value. Olt was only ever top 30 prospect IIRC where as Baez obviously was top 10 at one point.

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Except Olt was almost an afterthought in that trade. C.J. Edwards and Justin Grimm were the targets. There was a lot of talk about how crazy it was at the time that they would give up on Olt for that low a value.

I guess it depends on where you put Baez's floor. Is it Dan Uggla? If so you let him work this stuff out in the minors and let him gain that value because Uggla was worth something once. If it's lower than that than sure move him now because it won't get better. My feeling is that his floor is higher than Uggla and I would probably stick with him until he makes it back to the majors and they decide he's part of their plans or they move him, because right now he's the second or third guy in a 3 player package and I don't think that's nearly a high enough value with what you put in to this kid.