Bulls inability to get the big fish

Scoot26 · Jun 24, 2015

FirstTimer said:
Gar Pax's biggest issue was overvaluing guys already on the team. Noah/Deng/Hinrich/Gordon etc

This is pretty much it... and that has led to a lot of trades not happening. I still think many times some of these trades haven't occurred due to things that were outside of their control, but other teams, if was GarPax overvaluing a guy like Deng and Noah.

clonetrooper264 · Jun 24, 2015

I'm still not sure if trading Noah for Melo would taken this team over the top. BUT WHAT DO I KNOW!?

They both got bum knees now anyway

Scoot26 · Jun 24, 2015

clonetrooper264 said:
I'm still not sure if trading Noah for Melo would taken this team over the top. BUT WHAT DO I KNOW!?

They both got bum knees now anyway

Enter hindsight.

The Bulls probably find a way to keep Asik as he becomes their primary center at some point. You would have had Asik-Boozer-Melo-Hamilton-Rose in 2011-12 at least... I wouldn't say that gets you past Miami still though. Perhaps begins to take a load off Rose though and he can better heal for the playoffs and perhaps the ACL tear doesn't happen.

I don't know if Thibs starts Asik in 2011 if the Bulls pulled a trade deadline trade for Melo. So I don't know what veteran would start at center because Thibs is stubborn.

clonetrooper264 · Jun 24, 2015

Scoot26 said:
Enter hindsight.

The Bulls probably find a way to keep Asik as he becomes their primary center at some point. You would have had Asik-Boozer-Melo-Hamilton-Rose in 2011-12 at least... I wouldn't say that gets you past Miami still though. Perhaps begins to take a load off Rose though and he can better heal for the playoffs and perhaps the ACL tear doesn't happen.

I don't know if Thibs starts Asik in 2011 if the Bulls pulled a trade deadline trade for Melo. So I don't know what veteran would start at center because Thibs is stubborn.

Screw it. Rose, Rip, Melo, Boozer, Gibson ftw

Spunky Porkstacker · Jun 24, 2015

BEARZOMBIE said:
Rose isn't helping the situation. He wants to be top dog with no competition and will alienate any potential top fa. He is alienating his own teammate

Where do you get this? I heard Stacy King interviewed yesterday and he was asked point blank about Rose not being happy about Jimmy Buckets emergence and he called it complete BullShit.

BearDen · Jun 24, 2015

Scoot26 said:
Enter hindsight.

The Bulls probably find a way to keep Asik as he becomes their primary center at some point. You would have had Asik-Boozer-Melo-Hamilton-Rose in 2011-12 at least... I wouldn't say that gets you past Miami still though. Perhaps begins to take a load off Rose though and he can better heal for the playoffs and perhaps the ACL tear doesn't happen.

I don't know if Thibs starts Asik in 2011 if the Bulls pulled a trade deadline trade for Melo. So I don't know what veteran would start at center because Thibs is stubborn.

That team would have been pretty bad defensively, especially since you're probably correct on Asik not starting. I'd imagine some crappy vet, perhaps the corpse of Nazr Mohammed, would've been the starter. I highly doubt they would have faired any better against the Heat.

clonetrooper264 · Jun 24, 2015

BearDen said:
That team would have been pretty bad defensively, especially since you're probably correct on Asik not starting. I'd imagine some crappy vet, perhaps the corpse of Nazr Mohammed, would've been the starter. I highly doubt they would have faired any better against the Heat.

I bet Asik still gets enough minutes to make a difference defensively though. He was the one closing games that year so perhaps that trend continues and you close with Rose, Brewer, Melo, Gibson, and Asik. That's got decent paint protection at the very least.

Scoot26 · Jun 24, 2015

BearDen said:
That team would have been pretty bad defensively, especially since you're probably correct on Asik not starting. I'd imagine some crappy vet, perhaps the corpse of Nazr Mohammed, would've been the starter. I highly doubt they would have faired any better against the Heat.

Nah they'd still be good defensively. Asik and Gibson would close games. Like they did anyways in 2011.

I still don't think that team is a Heat beater, especially given Melo isn't stopping LeBron and Thibs probably either blows a fuse and plays Brewer 40+ mpg to guard LeBron...

BearDen · Jun 24, 2015

clonetrooper264 said:
I bet Asik still gets enough minutes to make a difference defensively though. He was the one closing games that year so perhaps that trend continues and you close with Rose, Brewer, Melo, Gibson, and Asik. That's got decent paint protection at the very least.

I still don't see that lineup beating Lebron/Wade/Bosh in their primes. Not even sure Rose and Melo could have coexisted on the same team, oh well, we'll never know.

clonetrooper264 · Jun 24, 2015

BearDen said:
I still don't see that lineup beating Lebron/Wade/Bosh in their primes. Not even sure Rose and Melo could have coexisted on the same team, oh well, we'll never know.

Probably not, but who the heck knows? There would've been some sick spacing with a Rose/Korver/Melo lineup though.

BearDen · Jun 24, 2015

clonetrooper264 said:
Probably not, but who the heck knows? There would've been some sick spacing with a Rose/Korver/Melo lineup though.

To be fair, Korver was awful against Miami in the playoffs. But it definitely would have been nice to see Rose not getting trapped constantly.

clonetrooper264 · Jun 24, 2015

BearDen said:
To be fair, Korver was awful against Miami in the playoffs. But it definitely would have been nice to see Rose not getting trapped constantly.

Probably had to do with him being the only offensive weapon other than Rose. Korver may still not have been great, but the spacing he'd give by being on the floor is still huge for Rose. And then you also have Lebron not guarding one of Rose or Melo in the final moments of a game which gives a much better offense there as well. Perhaps it still results in a loss, but perhaps it goes 7 instead of 5.

ChettheJet · Jun 24, 2015

We go through this same why can't we sign the big FA game every year, I've got news for you almost every year the teams you are so jealous of because they sign the big fish, they don't win the title either. Lebron is 2-3 in the finals as the big fish, did the Spurs ever sign the big fish and win it all, the Mavericks, the Warriors.

clonetrooper264 · Jun 24, 2015

If only we could be the Spurs and draft all our big fish...oh wait

WE NEED TO DRAFT MOAR BIG FISH!

Scoot26 · Jun 24, 2015

ChettheJet said:
We go through this same why can't we sign the big FA game every year, I've got news for you almost every year the teams you are so jealous of because they sign the big fish, they don't win the title either. Lebron is 2-3 in the finals as the big fish, did the Spurs ever sign the big fish and win it all, the Mavericks, the Warriors.

For the record:

Warriors best players:
Curry - Drafted
Thompson - Drafted
Green - Draft
Iggy - acquired through trade

Spurs best players:
Duncan - drafted
Parker - drafted
Ginobli - Drafted
Leonard - Acquired through draft day trade

Heat best players:
LeBron - free agency
Wade - Drafted
Bosh - Free Agency

Mavericks best players:
Dirk - Drafted
Terry - Acquired through trade
Kidd - Acquired through trade
Marion - Free agency

Lakers best players:
Kobe - Drafted
Gasol - Acquired through trade
Bynum - Drafted
Odom - Acquired through trade

Celtics best players:
Pierce - Drafted
Garnett - Acquired through trade
R. Allen - Acquired through trade
Rondo - Drafted

06 Miami Team:
Wade - Drafted
Shaq - Acquired through trade
Antoine Walker - Acquired through trade
Gary Payton - Free Agent

Pistons best players:
Ben Wallace - acquired through trade
Chauncey Billups - Free Agent
Richard Hamilton - Acquired through trade
Rasheed Wallace - acquired through trade

2000-2002 Lakers
Shaq - Free Agent
Kobe - Drafted

clonetrooper264 · Jun 24, 2015

WHY CAN'T WE BE LIKE THAT PISTONS TEAM! THEY DIDN'T DRAFT ANY BIG FISH! :kermit:

Scoot26 · Jun 24, 2015

clonetrooper264 said:
WHY CAN'T WE BE LIKE THAT PISTONS TEAM! THEY DIDN'T DRAFT ANY BIG FISH!

And they're an anomaly to winning an NBA Championship. They break like every rule there is to being a champion. Its my belief if Kobe and Shaq didnt have a meltdown, the Pistons probably lose that series 4-1.

clonetrooper264 · Jun 24, 2015

Scoot26 said:
And they're an anomaly to winning an NBA Championship. They break like every rule there is to being a champion. Its my belief if Kobe and Shaq didnt have a meltdown, the Pistons probably lose that series 4-1.

BUT DA BIG FISH! :fist:

Scoot26 · Jun 24, 2015

Btw this is harder, so I'm mostly doing this off the top of my head...

Runner ups (that were not addressed before):

Cleveland
LeBron - Drafted, then left via free agency, came back as a free agent..
Irving - Drafted
Love - Acquired through trade
Thompson - Drafted
Mozgov - Acquired through trade

Oklahoma City
Durant - Drafted
Westbrook Drafted
Harden - Drafted
Ibaka - Drafted

Orlando
Howard - Drafted
I dont know who the hell else was on this team

07 Cleveland
LeBron - Drafted
No one else was on this team

2002-2003 Nets
Kidd - Acquired through trade
Kenyon Martin - Drafted

2001 Sixers
Iverson - Drafted
Mutumbo - Acquired through trade

2000 Pacers
Miller - Drafted
J. Rose - Acquired through trade
Smits - Drafted

Of course before the 1999 CBA the cap was different and free agency was quite different as well.

clonetrooper264 · Jun 24, 2015

Orlando:

Howard-Drafted
Lewis-S&T IIRC pick your poison there
Turkoglu-FA
Nelson-Draft day trade
Lee-Drafted

Bulls inability to get the big fish

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